Is this a legal method to get OCI for US born child (Both parents Indian citizens)

I think you are confusing too many things (PIO/OCI and eligibility for Indian citizenship).

My question is not regarding which is better PIO or OCI, but that of eligibility for both.

"Since minor children of Indian parents are eligible for full citizenship" - But the minor child is not eligible for Indian citizenship if he/she applies for a US passport. Also minor child needs to relinquish US citizenship at 18 and get Indian citizenship. Once US citizenship is relinquished you cannot get it back trivially. So your assertion that "US citizenship can always be claimed any time during one's life" is not always true.

What differences does OCI not make? Even a person (above 18) who gets OCI is eligible to regain full Indian citizenship (after 5 years). I believe that PIO can also get Indian citizenship. If both PIO and OCI can get Indian citizenship, then why not be eligible OCI?

Also I believe for a minor child (both Indian parents) does not need PIO/OCI/any Indian visa to get full Indian citizenship. Even if that minor person does not have any Indian visa (assuming has US passport), he/she is eligible to get Indian citizenship at 18. I am not sure whether both the parents need to be Indian citizens at the 18th birthday or sufficient if they were Indians at the time of birth.

"Foreigner spouses are eligible for PIO, but not OCI" - Again you are confused. As per the OCI law (Indian Citizenship amendment act 2003 and 2005), you need to meet one of the three requirements (I posted above). Foreigner spouse does not meet any of the three requirements, but a US born minor (to both Indian parents) meets requirement (3) "Being a citizen of India on or after 26.01.1950.".

As per the Indian constitution a child born anywhere to both Indian parents is an Indian by birth. He/She loses Indian citizenship only when she applies for US passport. If the minor child does not apply for US passport ever, then technically he/she remains a citizen of both India and US. Practically this is not possible.

I agree with you on this "I think PIO/OCI are privileges/facilities granted by GOI" but not on "and they are free to set any reasonable terms and conditions". The regulation (terms and conditions) needs to be in consistent with the law. If they can change the law then fine.

However I am not sure which aspect of the law differentiates between minor and major w.r.t to OCI. I believe that Indian bureaucracy defined their own extensions and assumptions to the law (ultra-vires) when framing the regulations. Clearly US born minor meets requirements (3) as per the OCI law and FAQ.
 
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rpranesh said:
I think you are confusing too many things (PIO/OCI and eligibility for Indian citizenship).

My question is not regarding which is better PIO or OCI, but that of eligibility for both.

"Since minor children of Indian parents are eligible for full citizenship" - But the minor child is not eligible for Indian citizenship if he/she applies for a US passport. Also minor child needs to relinquish US citizenship at 18 and get Indian citizenship. Once US citizenship is relinquished you cannot get it back trivially. So your assertion that "US citizenship can always be claimed any time during one's life" is not always true.

What differences does OCI not make? Even a person (above 18) who gets OCI is eligible to regain full Indian citizenship (after 5 years). I believe that PIO can also get Indian citizenship. If both PIO and OCI can get Indian citizenship, then why not be eligible OCI?

Also I believe for a minor child (both Indian parents) does not need PIO/OCI/any Indian visa to get full Indian citizenship. Even if that minor person does not have any Indian visa (assuming has US passport), he/she is eligible to get Indian citizenship at 18. I am not sure whether both the parents need to be Indian citizens at the 18th birthday or sufficient if they were Indians at the time of birth.

"Foreigner spouses are eligible for PIO, but not OCI" - Again you are confused. As per the OCI law (Indian Citizenship amendment act 2003 and 2005), you need to meet one of the three requirements (I posted above). Foreigner spouse does not meet any of the three requirements, but a US born minor (to both Indian parents) meets requirement (3) "Being a citizen of India on or after 26.01.1950.".

As per the Indian constitution a child born anywhere to both Indian parents is an Indian by birth. He/She loses Indian citizenship only when she applies for US passport. If the minor child does not apply for US passport ever, then technically he/she remains a citizen of both India and US. Practically this is not possible.

I agree with you on this "I think PIO/OCI are privileges/facilities granted by GOI" but not on "and they are free to set any reasonable terms and conditions". The regulation (terms and conditions) needs to be in consistent with the law. If they can change the law then fine.

However I am not sure which aspect of the law differentiates between minor and major w.r.t to OCI. I believe that Indian bureaucracy defined their own extensions and assumptions to the law (ultra-vires) when framing the regulations. Clearly US born minor meets requirements (3) as per the OCI law and FAQ.
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There is no point arguing this further. Let's agree to disagree on this issue. We clearly see this issue in very different ways. Good luck if you decide to fight the law or its implementation/implementors :).
 
akgarg,
Please be objective. I am quoting the exact requirements that I think should qualify a US born minor for OCI. All I see is that "you disagree". If you "disagree", please let me know on what exactly you are disagreeing on.

In you argument your only point is that minors are not eligible for OCI. Why not? On what basis (other than the MHA web site) do you say that?

In your previous posts, you had mentioned "according to my reading". I would very much appreciate, if you could send me the links for such.

If I am incorrect, I would like the exact requirements or the law that I am missing.

Based on the feedback from the community, I was planning to write up to MHA/MEA.
 
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Pranesh,
From what I can see based on the applic forms for both, a minor cannot apply for OCI but an adult can apply for PIO card on behalf of a minor. The pio card is like an identity card but the oci is like a visa. All this is my understnading from reading the forms and rules found on consl website.

So the problem in your case is not about proving the kid ever had a claim to Indian heritage (which you are trying to do by getting the Ind passport and then giving it up). The concern is "can a kid (through an adult) apply for OCI?" .

If like someone stated above , kids with pio cards don't have to register with FRO, you really have no worries about living in India with the child having a pio card. I think the idea is the child applies for oci upon turning 18.
 
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aabbcc11:
Thanks for feedback. I understand the OCI application form does not have such provisions, but to think of it, the law provides the option, so changing the form design should be the least of the problem.

If adult can apply for a minor's passport (Indian or US), or if the adult can get Travel, Student Indian visa for the minor and if OCI is a visa, then why not?

Also if one of the Indian parents become OCI, then the minor child can get OCI even if he/she is a minor. So what is preventing from getting OCI for the minor if both the parents are Indians? What specific rule/law prevent such things.
 
From what I can see, an adult foreigner/non Ind passport holder can apply for OCI for him/her self and the kids . That is the best explanation that fits what the MEA/MFA is doing right now.

I really don't know what else to say. The simplest thing would be for your kid to get a PIO and then apply for OCI when he turns 18.
 
aabbcc11 said:
From what I can see, an adult foreigner/non Ind passport holder can apply for OCI for him/her self and the kids . That is the best explanation that fits what the MEA/MFA is doing right now.

I really don't know what else to say. The simplest thing would be for your kid to get a PIO and then apply for OCI when he turns 18.
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I think the problem is rpranesh is trying to read what he wants to read in the OCI eligibility criteria. For example, in http://www.cgisf.org/oc/OCI_FAQS.html, you have to read ALL of 1 thru 7 and meet each of the conditions to be eligible. You just can't read 1, 2 and 3 and then complain that 6 or 7 (or whatever) is preventing you from something.

Any law or rule/regulation can have exclusions, riders, grand-father clauses and some time they may seem contradictory to the basic premise, but that's the nature of such beasts.
 
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akgarg said:
I think the problem is rpranesh is trying to read what he wants to read in the OCI eligibility criteria. For example, in http://www.cgisf.org/oc/OCI_FAQS.html, you gave to read ALL of 1 thru 7 and meet each of the conditions to be eligible. You just can't read 1, 2 and 3 and then complain that 6 or 7 (or whatever) is preventing you from something.

Any law or rule/regulation can have exclusions, riders, grand-father clauses and some time they may seem contradictory to the basic premise, but that's the nature of such beasts.
Click to expand...

And to add to my own post... I think the OCI criteria as spelled out in the link above is not causing any heartburn to most people on this forum (or should I say, all except rpranesh), if someone has a problem or objection to any stipulation, they are free to petition the GOI/MHA to seek a change.
 
For the curious, Indian Citizenship Act 2003 redefines Indian citizens by descent (born outside of India to Indian parent(s) after 3 Dec 2004) in the Amendment 4(I)(a) -

""4 (I) A person born outside India shall be a citizen of India by descent
(a)his birth is registered at an Indian consulate within one year of its
occurrence or the commencement of this Act, whichever is later, or, with
the permission of the Central Government, after the expiry of the said
period; or"

This means that he/she is an Indian citizen only when registered with the consulate. So original idea of applying for Indian passport then applying US passport might still work out, but as ginnu said it might cause future problem when the child decides to become Indian citizen @ 18.

I would like to thank ginnu, ravi1985, aabbcc11, akgarg for their feedback.
 
akgarg said:
And to add to my own post... I think the OCI criteria as spelled out in the link above is not causing any heartburn to most people on this forum (or should I say, all except rpranesh), if someone has a problem or objection to any stipulation, they are free to petition the GOI/MHA to seek a change.
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akgarg,
I am trying to be objective and rational in trying to analyze the basis of the regulation and nothing else.
 
rpranesh said:
akgarg,
I am trying to be objective and rational in trying to analyze the basis of the regulation and nothing else.
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rpranesh,

And that is exactly what I have been trying to say - the list - 1 thru 7 - of eligibility criteria (in the link I sent earlier) doesn't seem to be subjective or irrational, especially when the alternative route of PIO and its later conversion to OCI when either parent becomes eligible for OCI or the child becomes adult (currently cheaper as well as faster) is readily available.

I appears that you see it differently, and that's why I had proposed that let's agree to disagree. Let's put this to rest at this point.
 
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