is emergency medicine covered under J1 waiver jobs?

vineetgsvm

Registered Users (C)
Just wanted to know if J1 visa for the Emergency Medicine residency is covered under the NIW /MUA areas of need . or the genaral specialities like FM, IM, PEdiatrics and gynae obs only are part of it???

and if EM is covered under waiver program then what are the chances of getting a waiver job???

more over have been hearing the speculations that the home requirement may be increased to 3 years?? how far is it true??

thanx in advance
 
vineetgsvm said:
Just wanted to know if J1 visa for the Emergency Medicine residency is covered under the NIW /MUA areas of need . or the genaral specialities like FM, IM, PEdiatrics and gynae obs only are part of it???

Yes
 
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Yes and no.

For the purpose of a J1 waiver, the department of state and USCIS don't care that the shortage designations are for 'primary care'. As for the various programs that sponsor physician waivers:
- Conrad30: Most don't care, some restrict to core primary care specialties or have a quota for 'specialists'.
- ARC: primary care only
- DRA: don't care, as long as you work in their dismal swamps.

For the purpose of a national interest waiver (in order to obtain a GC), USCIS has adopted a very narrow view that only primary care internists, family practice, peds and gyn count as primary care. This flies right in the face of the 'any physician' sentence in the original law, but heck, its USCIS and as they so eloquently put it in a reply to a lawsuit on the issue 'doesn't underly judicial review'.

> and if EM is covered under waiver program then what are the
> chances of getting a waiver job???

I would say fairly good. It would most likely be either a rural hospital or an inner-city indingent care hospital, but overall you should have a good chance at a waiver job. Also, there are only 4 or 5% of FMGs in EM as opposed to 40% in IM for example. That reduces your competition for underserved area jobs considerably.

> more over have been hearing the speculations that the home
> requirement may be increased to 3 years?? how far is it true??

There has also been speculation about increasing the required time in a underserved area to 5 years. But it is just that, speculation.
(mostly fueled by the prevalent attitude of J1 docs that they just sit out their 3 years and then get out of town like they are being chased by an angry mob)
 
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Precedent

Yes it is speculation but is is based on more than the attitude of J1 docs.
There was a time pre-1998 when a J1 waiver was 2 yrs and a NIW was 3 yrs. In fact, I am told that petitioners often even got their green cards in hand before completion of their commitment periods...............some even left before completing the 3 yrs! Hence and to ensure J1docs stay on longer the changes were made.
The intent of the law is clear and it is to get the HPSAs/MUAs served. Somehow noone wants to deal with the underlying reason why people leave (or those with choice don't come) which has nothing to do with rural or urban generally but more to do with economics of a practice. In this day and age, trying to maintain a primary care practice in a HPSA full of uninsured, medicaid and medicare patients is practically economic suicide. J1 docs usually get supported by the hospitals during the waivers but do not see staying on as economically feasible.
Hence in the current health care set up HPSAs are HPSAs for a reason and will remain so until/unless the status quo changes in the US healthcare system.
 
Of course, there is more than one reason why these changes came about and why further changes are being discussed (e.g. again abolishing the option of doing your residency on h1b).

One phenomenon I have seen in J1 docs is the fact that they are often from an urban upper middle class background in the country they where brought up. For them, working in some BF village in the rural US doesn't exactly offer loads of cultural stimulation. Many of the US docs working rural practices are themselves either farmkids or have some other attachment to rural areas (e.g. like to invest large amounts of money into equipment to kill fish, deer or ducks). For them, working in a rural practice is a lifestyle choice, and not a mandate brought upon them by the goverment.

And of course, there are the economics of it. Underserved areas are underserved for a reason. And as long as the medicare reimbursement formula punishes rural states and practice locations, and as long as medicaid pays such paltry sums for primary care, nothing is going to change about it. Rural and underserved by the way does not equal low income. In fields like family practice, a rural location is actually often an opportunity to make an above average income. Procedures such as sigmoidoscopy or c-section that are firmly in the hands of the respective specialists in most cities are often performed by FPs.

Still, I am somewhat disheartened by the attitude that I see by many of the guys and gals on this board whose primary interest is to find out when the first day is that they can get out of this j1prison. Now, considering some of the shady labor practices that particularly small practice (themselves usually FMG) employers use, this is no big suprise. But there are financially competitive jobs out there with benign employers, and still people can't seem to wait until they can get out of town.
 
Hadron, can you get a waiver by working ER shifts in Underserved area when you're FP? I thought they wanted you to be in outpatient clinic to do your J1 waiver. Appreciate your reply.
 
Any 'full time practice' will do.

Getting ED shifts as a FP is getting harder and harder. Even the smaller rural hospitals are trying to get staffed by EM docs (and often through contracts with ED management companies they succeed in this).
 
State Dep't of Health

It is basically up to each State's Dept of Heath. Based on all I have seen and heard the USCIS does not really give two cahoots about things once you get the support letter from the State Dept of health. I think they percieve this(Conrad 30 program) in a way allows for flexibility for each state at a local level.
Now each of them as a result of this power vested in them make up their own rules, interpretations, penalties and pre requisites and so on, but in the end with their blessings things go smoothly. I have seen some people who are now doing J1waivers/NIWs as Hospitalists also.

I am sure there are some rural areas that treat docs fairly and yet have difficulty retaining J1 docs, however I want to say a couple of things. It is more likely that a mistreated and exploited J1 doc spends more time on these forums, to perhaps find a faster route.
I see the waiver as two sides of a coin. Employers have just as much a responsibility to make your waiver time pleasant as you do to give that opportunity a good effort and build a career of it. Many times the employers(not just FMG docs but even sometimes seasoned hospital administrators) treat the J1 docs differently than they would someone with permanent status. For someone who has endured this for years, it gets hard to stay after the fact.

In my case, I completed my waiver last year and at that time was offered the practice of a well respected retiring Internist in the same county and not more than 4 miles from the hospital clinic where I work, the hospital was ambivalent about it (I had just filed for a NIW based on my employment with them but then again I would stay on in the community). However the State Dep't of health was a different story. Although as per the NIW, I would have kept to the law, they basically told me the other site (also HPSA) would not be acceptable to them, since the current site served more indigent patients(which is true I admit). They also specifically stated they wanted me employed. When I pointed out that the NIW law allows physicians to be self employed, the point person quipped that the law also does not require them to write this letter. In other words they made their own rule.
I could have tried some risky maneuvers to still do it but in the end decided to go for safety. Clearly this is 1 of 50 states and there may be more well meaning State Dept of Healths.

However personally, after this I see nothing wrong in moving on somewhere else should I see it fit. I write this just to demonstrate that sometimes even when one wishes to stay on the local authorities can be their own worst enemies.
 
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It is basically up to each State's Dept of Heath. Based on all I have seen and heard the USCIS does not really give two cahoots about things once you get the support letter from the State Dept of health. I think they percieve this(Conrad 30 program) in a way allows for flexibility for each state at a local level.

And that is exactly the intended scope of the conrad30 program. I had the opportunity to exchange myself with someone from Conrads staff on that very issue. In order to get support from enough republican senators to get the program passed over and over again, the 'state rights' issue is a big help. They don't want 'big goverment' telling the states what physicians to place in underserved areas.

Now each of them as a result of this power vested in them make up their own rules, interpretations, penalties and pre requisites and so on, but in the end with their blessings things go smoothly.

The variability is HUGE.
Some states have a 1/2 page piece of paper outlining their policy. The policy is: You find a job. You send us a printout of the HPSA database for that county. We send a letter to DOS.
Others have a 40 page document specifying that unless the local town-drunk hasn't signed off on your employment and unless your employer has spent at least 10k in recruitment expenses with full-page ads in the NEJM and unless you serve 110% indingent pestilence ridden lepers who must have a T/T ratio of less than 1 they won't sponsor your application.
Some of them have extremely punitive provisions for people who want to get out under a cruel employer. It is a slaveholder mentality that you will find in states of the old south. After the emancipation and the civil rights act make it harder to exploit african americans, they had to find a new class of bonded servants (you are asking whether I have a dislike for the american south? No, I HATE IT)
 
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Finding ER job with waiver is very hard.Most of ERs are covered by groups that can not support j-1 waiver.They also don't kow anything abouot J-1 .If you are looking for ER j-1 , you should start your journey very soon.
 
Dear USAdc71.. sorry for a late query..but if u are around can you pleae detail on this very aspect " difficulty of finding a waiver job in EM" ... as the discussion ensued above..it appeared all the more less competitive as compared to the IM counterparts.... Please if anyone has a personal experience do chip in... on how easy or difficult it is to get a waiver job after EM residency.... thanx everyone for the enlightenment....
 
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