INS asked for more doc after interview

O

ouyang

New Member
During my interview in Seattle, the officer told me that i might have broken my contineous residency, even though I came back to the states every 6 months (sometimes 4 months) for the last two years. I stayed in the states for a few weeks and went out again. And I lived in the states longer than 30 months total in the past 5 years. I thought i didn't break anything when i checked the citizenship qualification.

He asked me to provide more documents like insurance, ownership of a car, mortgage payment and etc.

I was wondering if you have any suggestions, i find this is a very useful forum. Should i get myself a lawyer before submitting the documents?

thanks!
 
Can you tell us how many trips you made and how many days you were out during last five years? What's your longest trip? Were you maintained residence when you are away from US? Rented an apartment, stayed at friend's place or motel? What residence address you mentioned in you N400 from for last five years?

You answers will help a lot of us who are in similar situation.

I feel you gather and submit house rent payments, utility bills, car insurance, credit card statements, bank accounts, drivers licence, tax returns and other documents which prove your ties with US for the periods of absence in US. The important thing is your documents must provide evidence and proof that your stay away from US is temporary in nature.
 
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Send the documents by certified mail. I was asked for additional documents and after eight months my application was denied because the "documents have not been received". I have since sent a copy of the UPS delivery confirmation to USCIS.
 
Hello,

So can continuous residence be broken if you go on trips less than 6 months? I know you can allege abondonment of residence which would mean your green card is taken away.

But if you cannot allege abondonment because of ties, reentry, temporary trip - then can you allege only continuous residence broken?

All lawyers seem to say that continuous residence is not broken for trips of less than 6 months.

http://www.grasmick.com/citizen.htm#REQUIREMENTS

A "continuous" resident of the U.S. for at least 5 years (3 years of "marital union" for certain spouses of U.S. citizens) counting back from the date of your application. Absences from the U.S. of less than 6 months shall not break the continuity. An absence from the United States of more than six months but less than a year creates a presumption against you. Absence from the United States for a continuous period of one year or more absolutely breaks the continuity of such residence unless you get permission via form N-470 Application to Preserve Residence for Naturalization Purposes. Note: these requirements are similar but not identical to requirements for preserving your green card. (See the FAQ question #12 "How can I keep my Green Card while working abroad?") You can file your Naturalization application up to three months before the date you meet the residence requirement.
 
your link says it all..the link provides accurate information and as per my understanding that is the law.
i dont know why the io had a problem with you.

one more question,if the immigration officers in airport let him back in the country where is the question of him abandoning the green card?

waiting for ur inputs
query11

bonafide said:
Hello,

So can continuous residence be broken if you go on trips less than 6 months? I know you can allege abondonment of residence which would mean your green card is taken away.

But if you cannot allege abondonment because of ties, reentry, temporary trip - then can you allege only continuous residence broken?

All lawyers seem to say that continuous residence is not broken for trips of less than 6 months.

http://www.grasmick.com/citizen.htm#REQUIREMENTS

A "continuous" resident of the U.S. for at least 5 years (3 years of "marital union" for certain spouses of U.S. citizens) counting back from the date of your application. Absences from the U.S. of less than 6 months shall not break the continuity. An absence from the United States of more than six months but less than a year creates a presumption against you. Absence from the United States for a continuous period of one year or more absolutely breaks the continuity of such residence unless you get permission via form N-470 Application to Preserve Residence for Naturalization Purposes. Note: these requirements are similar but not identical to requirements for preserving your green card. (See the FAQ question #12 "How can I keep my Green Card while working abroad?") You can file your Naturalization application up to three months before the date you meet the residence requirement.
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Maybe the IO alleged abondoning of residency altogether. But then they should start deportation proceedings and they have to go in front of the judge and convince him that he in fact abondoned residency. The poster here did not say if he had reentry permit, filed taxes etc.

Also it is not clear the poster met the 90 day requirement of residency in the state prior to filing. Also after filing - did he just leave the US?

Maybe the poster misunderstood what INS is after - that it might sthg bigger than just denial of N-400.

In any case I would be interested if INS can deny N-400 based on the fact that continuous residence was broken on trips less than 6 months in duration and at the same time recognize that the green card holder did not abondon his residency and will not have his GC taken away.
 
Are there similar cases where naturalization was denied or more documents were sought during the interview due to the lack of presence in the US despite Continous Residency(trips outside less than 6 months) and Physical Presence not broken?

Thanks
 
bonafide said:
In any case I would be interested if INS can deny N-400 based on the fact that continuous residence was broken on trips less than 6 months in duration and at the same time recognize that the green card holder did not abondon his residency and will not have his GC taken away.
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The residency requirements for a GC are different than applying for N-400. For a green card the requirement is looser. They will let you in unless you have been out for more than a year without a re-entry permit. For N-400, it is a technical matter. Also, it is up to you to convince the officer that you did not "abandon" your residence. Comparing residency requirements for GC and citizenship is like comparing apples and oranges.
 
My question is about N400. Are there people who were asked to bring in more documentation despite complying with the continous residence (though moving abroad but trips < 6 months) and physical presence requirements.

Thanks.
 
Superho -

You say
"The residency requirements for a GC are different than applying for N-400. For a green card the requirement is looser. They will let you in unless you have been out for more than a year without a re-entry permit. For N-400, it is a technical matter. Also, it is up to you to convince the officer that you did not "abandon" your residence. Comparing residency requirements for GC and citizenship is like comparing apples and oranges."

So you are suggesting the lawyer web site is wrong and misinforming the public about the continuous residence requirement? Lawyers seem to say that continuous residence requirement for N-400 is quite clear and is not broken for trips less than 6 mths.

Abondoning residence is a different issue. But when this comes up the GC should be taken away and not N-400 just denied.
 
bonafide said:
Superho -

You say
"The residency requirements for a GC are different than applying for N-400. For a green card the requirement is looser. They will let you in unless you have been out for more than a year without a re-entry permit. For N-400, it is a technical matter. Also, it is up to you to convince the officer that you did not "abandon" your residence. Comparing residency requirements for GC and citizenship is like comparing apples and oranges."

So you are suggesting the lawyer web site is wrong and misinforming the public about the continuous residence requirement? Lawyers seem to say that continuous residence requirement for N-400 is quite clear and is not broken for trips less than 6 mths.

Abondoning residence is a different issue. But when this comes up the GC should be taken away and not N-400 just denied.
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I don't really care what is on a lawyer's website. I've said that before and I'll say it again. The operative procedure is what the interviewing officer will do. They have the discretion of allowing/disallowing your stay timeline if they think it may have been broken. My point is, that it is up to the applicant to convince the officer. There does not seem to be a hard and fast rule about it-the officer's say is final. Of course, one could always take a printout of the regulations and show it to the officer. But then, how many people are prepared for that in their interview...

On comparing it with the GC stuff: some people get their GC and go back abroad to wrap up their affairs, etc. It may take them months to do that. As long as they can convince the officer at the POE that they just went to wrap up their affairs and did not abandon their GC, it is ok. They don't take away GCs for being away for several months, but they can reset your clock for N-400 purposes...
 
Do they have discretion here or do they not?

You seem to be contradicting pretty darn good lawyers. Look at for example:
http://immigration-information.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657

The lawyer says here:
"As for continuous residence, the law is clear: if your trip abroad lasts less than 180 days, it does not break your continuous residence. It doesn't matter if you turned around and left the next day for another trip."

My lawyer said the same. Maybe you are right but prominent lawyers are wrong and this is all a matter of discretion.

So if sb goes out for 1 year but breaks it up into 3 trips it should be ok from continiuous residence standpoint. It might be not okay from the abondonment standpoint and that is a very different issue. If you abondon you loose GC - there are no ifs or butts.
 
SuperHo - Pls state your qualifications also when you are contradicting good and established lawyers out there. I am not saying that you are wrong and all good lawyers are right. But you should base it on a very solid foundation especially if you are a layman.
 
I am stating my opinion. Nobody has to follow it. I always maintain that the final choice is the applicant's. In other words, do what you want. I have no compelling need to be right-I may even me wrong in the matter of law, but since the OP posted the experience of having this problem, it is plain to see that this issue is clear and present. It is not whether it is present, but what one does about it.

As I said, argue with the interviewing officer...not me.
 
I was trying to establish what the law says and not what the whim of the immigration officer is. There are probably numerous cases where an immigration officer at interview or port of entry does not follow the law in the books but invents his/her own law. This can be easily overturned in courts.

I had personal experience where a consular officer was about to violate immigration law. But my lawyer recommended him not to do so because otherwise the case will be escalated to dept of state. The consular officer then decided not to violate the law. If not for harsh letter from the lawyer who knows what the consular officer would do.

From what it seems there are many reasons to have an immigration lawyer handle your N-400 if there is anything out of the ordinary because you might get an immigration officer who will not follow the law or will not be educated in the law?

Here is another lawyer web site explaining the continous residence requirement:
http://www.hooyou.com/naturalization/requirements.html
" An absence from the U.S. of less than six months does not break the alien's continuity of residence in the U.S. for naturalization purposes"

I checked and there are many sites that go into detail about this. It seems to me if all lawyers are correct (and this could be the case or it could not be the case) => then trips less than 6 months do not break continuity of residence.

Other thing is if sb goes for 2 years abroad without securing reentry, does not file taxes, does not maintain ties but comes back every 6 months - then the person could have abondoned residence in the US. But then the GC should be taken away and not just N-400 denied. GC people should live in the US and should only go on temporary trips (not permanent trips to their home country). But abondonment is a different thing from continuity. And my lawyer said although in abondonment there is discretion => if you make a clear case then they can do nothing to you - if you really live in the US and go on temp trips and follow simple precautions - ultimately they will do nothing to you. INS still has to follow the law and if one clerk doesn't do so there are ways to help him follow the law in the future.

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I am not a lawyer and use this at your own risk.
 
Long time back, I have heard from Sheila Murthy's chat (which happens every monday) that whenever a person stays out of country for close to 6 months (to the wire) then it is subject to the interpretation/descretion of the immigration officer to determine whether the alien has shown an intention to abandon GC or not.

I have one question. What proof can we present to show that we have no intention to abandon our GC. I know ouyang has mentioned utility bills, car insurance etc. If the time period when they need are 3 or 4 years old, I do not know who preserves these (atleast i did not) and in that case what should we show them.
 
There are lots of threads on abondonment. Each case is different.

But it is not all dependent on the whim of the immigration officer. Because there is such big confusion - I went ahead and hired a lawyer to do my reentry permit, document my stay abroad and ties to the US (ties, purpose, activities here in the US and abroad were also documented on reentry permit). On top of this I got an opinion letter. It all costs but for me it was worth it.

Sometimes when you read what people are posting here - you get the impression that you can go on a genuinely temporary trip abroad, have ties to the US, have reentry and still have your GC revoked. If that was the case I would think the law does not work correctly. The intention of the law is for you to live in the US and go on temporray trips abroad (with reentry even for 2 years!). My lawyer and many others seem to suggest this is not the case and reading too many things on message boards is bound to get your mind in trouble. You should always stick with experts (not laymen) who clearly understand the law.

Same thing is with this thread. You have people like SuperHo contradicting very good lawyers. If you relied on this - you would think the US is not a country where law is respected. And it is not the case hopefully. It is only individual clerk who can make a mistake.

This is why it is good to have lawyers backing you up on your immigration journey. If you don't - you will rely on advice given by JoeF or SuperHo. They might give you lots of good advice but they have no legal training and certainly cannot draw the line when you abondon GC and when you do not.

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I am not a lawyer. Use this advice at your own risk.
 
You haven't really been reading the posts very well, have you? Where did I say that you should ignore a good attorney? I said I don't care what is on a lawyer's website. Something posted on a website is NOT legal advice by any stretch of the imagination. If you want legal advice, pay for it.

It is irrelevant that the officer is wrong or not. They are wrong many times. However, the decision at the time is the decision. You can argue about it all you want. The fact remains that unless you have your ducks in a row right then and there, you will either have to provide the evidence, hire a lawyer later and fight it or accept the denial.

It all boils down to how the applicant has prepared the paperwork. So I say again, unless you have hired a lawyer to do the work for you, you're on your own.

Don't know how I can make it any more clear.
 
as per my knowledge ,its very simple.all you have to do is call the company and request them a copy of ur bills for the past few years and they will be more than oblidged to do the concerned.some,might charge u a small fee.


naturalize_06 said:
Long time back, I have heard from Sheila Murthy's chat (which happens every monday) that whenever a person stays out of country for close to 6 months (to the wire) then it is subject to the interpretation/descretion of the immigration officer to determine whether the alien has shown an intention to abandon GC or not.

I have one question. What proof can we present to show that we have no intention to abandon our GC. I know ouyang has mentioned utility bills, car insurance etc. If the time period when they need are 3 or 4 years old, I do not know who preserves these (atleast i did not) and in that case what should we show them.
Click to expand...
 
query11 said:
as per my knowledge ,its very simple.all you have to do is call the company and request them a copy of ur bills for the past few years and they will be more than oblidged to do the concerned.some,might charge u a small fee.
Click to expand...

If I may add to query's post, having filed US taxes would be a key piece of evidence. That is the most conclusive evidence. Look at it this way, who would abandon their residence in the US and still pay taxes to Uncle Sam? :rolleyes:
 
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