India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)
- Thread starter columbiaman
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sv2707 said:
At the moment, OCI and PIO status does NOT help in adoption in any fashion. People with OCI and PIO status still get the 2nd preference as the (Indians living abroad). 1st preference belongs to Indian living in India. With the new rule change, CARA is going to allow NRIs, where at least spouse is an Indian passport holder to be treated as Indians living in India, thus bumping them to be in the 1st preference. Although, getting a CARA NOC for the baby, and other inter-country adoption formalities would still apply.
NRIs with or without PIO or OCI status have a better preference than couples where only 1 of the spouse is NRI (3rd preference) or totally foreign (4th preference).
OCI is not needed for adoption. It's just that CARA may address extending the same benefit to the PIOs or OCIs in the future. When...nobody knows.
Up to march 9th it was 12 days.ATLVAS said:Does any one know how long it takes Houston to process the passports after OCI is approved. I have sent my passports 3 weeks back and till todate haven't received them. I can't reach Houston consulate via phone or emails...
q getting longer now
sg_orl said:
sg_orl sounds like he knows.
I did some digging up. If I were applying I would press the case that an OCI was the same as Indian, it is "dual citizenship" according to the PM
Also the OCI clearly states that it has equivalent rights to NRI (with few exceptions). NRI = Indian.CARA describes two types of entities "Familes within the country" and "Foreigners". The middle ground is NRIs,PIOs, and OCIs.
Now from what I have read there is no explicit process that discourages foreigners from adopting. But the national body requests state governments to:
That is there is encouragement to push in-country adoptions.
Now the procedures for foreigners adopting children are extensive and onerous. So if you can say you are not a foreigner, but an OCI which is similar in law to an NRI, I would push it.
After we get some consensus, I will put this stuff up on the other thread.
UNHCHR on Adoption:
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/27.htm
India's implementation and governing directives (CARA):
http://www.cara.nic.in/chap2.htm
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gaurav2005
Registered Users (C)
My OCI ordeal with CGI-Houston - Part2
Some of you know that I had to run heaven to earth to get our US passports and the approved OCI cards. I had to call MOA, NewDelhi constantly and at the same time sending faxes, emails and letters to the consulate.
Now Part2:
They only sent the OCI cards for my family and promised to process my application fast. Though we all applied at the same time i.e. mid-Jan, they did not scan my photos properly and the MOA rejected them, this was back in February. I rushed new photos early March and it is going to be almost 2 months and till now the OCI cell in CGI-Houston did not have time to upload the photos. After repeated emails, they responded saying that they had uploaded as soon as they received them the second time but MOA says they never received them. Based on my past experience, I dont trust OCI-cell in CGI-Houston.
To be fair, MOA have been excellent and they expressed helplessness as they are also sending mails, faxes etc. Due to time difference they cannot call the CGI during my call. I was also told that compared to other OCI cells, CGI-Houston dont have much load. Who is this OCI cell accountable to ? Who is the overseeing authority ?
I left messages for Consulate General himself. But his office assistants pick the phone and never let me talk to him. They say they will pass on the message promising a call back.
This is the most horrible experience I had to deal with any govt office any where. With this attitude, on one hand I am glad being a US citizen and on the other hand I am also sad the future of India with this kind of attitude from the govt employees. Is this a prelude of what is coming particularly those who want to go back and settle down in India ? With this kind of attitude, I am not sure how many people want to deal with GoI ever again.
But, we need to let the higher ups know about it in a mass scale. Lets mobilize and send letters and emails to PMs office. Please list all the telephone numbers, email addresses starting with PM. Let them know how the NRIs are being taken for granted here at the consulates. How we work for every cause of India, notably the US-India civil nuclear deal, and how we are being treated in return. You almost feel that these folks at CGIs are being vindictive - I fail to understand why ? Is it that they will be loosing the opportunity to harass the NRIs for the life time once they grant OCIs ?
Some of the members of this forum took on USCIS and lets do the same with CGIs. Lets fight it out.
Some of you know that I had to run heaven to earth to get our US passports and the approved OCI cards. I had to call MOA, NewDelhi constantly and at the same time sending faxes, emails and letters to the consulate.
Now Part2:
They only sent the OCI cards for my family and promised to process my application fast. Though we all applied at the same time i.e. mid-Jan, they did not scan my photos properly and the MOA rejected them, this was back in February. I rushed new photos early March and it is going to be almost 2 months and till now the OCI cell in CGI-Houston did not have time to upload the photos. After repeated emails, they responded saying that they had uploaded as soon as they received them the second time but MOA says they never received them. Based on my past experience, I dont trust OCI-cell in CGI-Houston.
To be fair, MOA have been excellent and they expressed helplessness as they are also sending mails, faxes etc. Due to time difference they cannot call the CGI during my call. I was also told that compared to other OCI cells, CGI-Houston dont have much load. Who is this OCI cell accountable to ? Who is the overseeing authority ?
I left messages for Consulate General himself. But his office assistants pick the phone and never let me talk to him. They say they will pass on the message promising a call back.
This is the most horrible experience I had to deal with any govt office any where. With this attitude, on one hand I am glad being a US citizen and on the other hand I am also sad the future of India with this kind of attitude from the govt employees. Is this a prelude of what is coming particularly those who want to go back and settle down in India ? With this kind of attitude, I am not sure how many people want to deal with GoI ever again.
But, we need to let the higher ups know about it in a mass scale. Lets mobilize and send letters and emails to PMs office. Please list all the telephone numbers, email addresses starting with PM. Let them know how the NRIs are being taken for granted here at the consulates. How we work for every cause of India, notably the US-India civil nuclear deal, and how we are being treated in return. You almost feel that these folks at CGIs are being vindictive - I fail to understand why ? Is it that they will be loosing the opportunity to harass the NRIs for the life time once they grant OCIs ?
Some of the members of this forum took on USCIS and lets do the same with CGIs. Lets fight it out.
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gaurav
put ur problems on paper and mail it to the desi news papers in houston...i know for sure the consular goes through the desi news papers here....
talking of cgi houston...i personally have had no problems with them....
good folks.only thing tht pisses me of is every time u need to talk to some one in the consulate u got to go through a hundred voicemails which are permanently full .
why dont u go there personally and try to talk to them...i am hundred percent sure they will help u out....
put ur problems on paper and mail it to the desi news papers in houston...i know for sure the consular goes through the desi news papers here....
talking of cgi houston...i personally have had no problems with them....
good folks.only thing tht pisses me of is every time u need to talk to some one in the consulate u got to go through a hundred voicemails which are permanently full .
why dont u go there personally and try to talk to them...i am hundred percent sure they will help u out....
gaurav2005
Registered Users (C)
Received the response - Are they reading this forum ?
We have uploaded your photos once again yesterday and send them.
As soon as we received the information about your photo rejection, we got in touch with you and asked you for your photo, and once we received your photo, your application was immediately reprocessed, your photo scanned and sent to MHA. There was no delay on our side.
I am sorry you had to wait this long for your OCI cards.
First of all, I never received the email for CGI-Houston regarding the photos. I came to know from MEA, delhi. And based on this, I called up the consulate and they immediately said "send the photos again". I asked them to rescan the photos but they were rude saying that they scan the photos regularly and it is not the fault of scanning. Later on I came to know from MEA, Delhi that it is not the photo quality that is a problem but it is the problem of positioning the photos. Oh, well. Lets see this time.
Query11, thanks for the response. I live in Florida and flying to Houston ai'nt cheap otherwise I would have done that first thing. Anyway there is a delta change in the process, lets see how it goes. Please let me know if you have any particular papers in mind.
We have uploaded your photos once again yesterday and send them.
As soon as we received the information about your photo rejection, we got in touch with you and asked you for your photo, and once we received your photo, your application was immediately reprocessed, your photo scanned and sent to MHA. There was no delay on our side.
I am sorry you had to wait this long for your OCI cards.
First of all, I never received the email for CGI-Houston regarding the photos. I came to know from MEA, delhi. And based on this, I called up the consulate and they immediately said "send the photos again". I asked them to rescan the photos but they were rude saying that they scan the photos regularly and it is not the fault of scanning. Later on I came to know from MEA, Delhi that it is not the photo quality that is a problem but it is the problem of positioning the photos. Oh, well. Lets see this time.
Query11, thanks for the response. I live in Florida and flying to Houston ai'nt cheap otherwise I would have done that first thing. Anyway there is a delta change in the process, lets see how it goes. Please let me know if you have any particular papers in mind.
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gaurav am really sorry,i am in the process of moving out so i threw all the news papers out today...
pm me ur mail id and i will send u the mailing adress of the loal news paapers firth thing tomorrow
i do remeber one paper voice of asia is very famous here and i know for sure tht guy goes through the paper every week coz one of my friend works in tht paper and they have a article on consul every week....
pm me ur mail id and i will send u the mailing adress of the loal news paapers firth thing tomorrow
i do remeber one paper voice of asia is very famous here and i know for sure tht guy goes through the paper every week coz one of my friend works in tht paper and they have a article on consul every week....
PIO1 said:
My two cents -
1. The above links are authinticate and useful.
2. The process of adoption of Indian child is complex and onerous for those residing outside India.
a) Not only Indian law is important but the regulations of the country where you reside currently are also very important.
b) NRI's are given preference than non-Indian origins - the process is simpler as well. NRI includes OCI / PIO / other Indian Origins.
c) However, considering OCI / PIO would be normally citizens of the country where they are residing (assumming they have not migrated to a third contry e.g. a UKC with PIO card adopting from the UK) then PIO / OCI holders will have the benefit over the NRIs who are in those countries with Green Card / visa. With citizenship in most countries adopted childres can be migrated to adopting parents' place much sooner than if you are PR/ GC / visa holder.
Look at the following info
WHAT DOES THE TERM NRI (Non-Resident Indian) MEAN?
The term NRI means that at least one of the applicants (one of the parents) is of Indian descent. It does not matter where the parents were born or what citizenship they claim but unless at least one parent is a US citizen, a couple will not be able to get a visa for the child. If they have a Green Card ,the child will have to have been adopted by them and remain in India for about 2 years prior to applying for a visa. This is a US government regulation.
NOTE: Kindly be advised it is impossible to adopt a relative from India, unless the child is orphaned or abandoned.
THE BASICS:
The numbers of Indian families within India, and NRI couples abroad who are adopting from India have grown dramatically these past few years. Indian Organizations and CARA are encouraging local Indian Parents to consider adoption. And for NRI couples, many U.S. agencies are now developing India adoption programs specifically for NRI couples.
India makes an effort to place all abandoned or relinquished children with
1. an Indian family in India first.
2. If that is not possible, then they prefer that an Indian family abroad be found.
3.Finally, if no Indian family can be found, then the child can be placed with a non-NRI family.
Typically NRI couples adopting from India will find the process goes much more quickly and smoothly than for a non-NRI couple. And there may be more options for the NRI couple as well.
An NRI couple may adopt a young healthy infant, whereas a non-NRI couple may find it difficult to locate an agency with such a program.
Similarly http://cara.nic.in/faq.htm clearly says -
13. Are Non-Resident Indians given any preference in inter-country adoption?
Yes. As per the Revised Guidelines, the order of preference for adoption of Indian children is :-
1) Indian Family in India.
2) Indian Family abroad.
3) One parent of Indian origin abroad.
4) Totally foreign
Remember here Indian Family includes Indian Nationals and Persons of Indian Origin.
So OCI's will have following advantage -
a) Being citizen of the country where you are residing will help to speed up the process and also meet the guidelins / regulations of that country. Ofcourse this advantage is not by virtue of OCI but by virtue of Foreign Citizenship.
b) Being OCI one can come and reside India for indefinite period and adopt from within India. The easiest and simplest of all. Indian family residing in India is given first preference.
c) Being OCI can help one prove one is Person of Indian Origin if resident outside India. And get priority after Indian Family Resident in India. And is much simpler than being completely of Froeign Origin.
In short OCI does not offer any material advantages over PIO card or even over being a Person of Indian Origin and who has other valid proofs to show the indian origin (e.g. cancelled Indian Passport of self, parents, grand parents etc OR Indian Birth Cert etc.).
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Gaurav, absolutely feel for you ...gaurav2005 said:
You know all this but for the benefit of future generations:
Don't send your passport when you see "granted" I had warned someone before re this, and I think Gautam and Mangal both had a feeling that this could be problematic. The consulates work on a work queue system. If they get your passport, and there is nothing they can do with it, they will permanently file it. When the sticker comes, they will send you a letter asking for your pp, without realising that it is hidden somewhere.
The scanning problem is not a problem with your photo - it is lack of coordination of the consulate - potitioning, they pushed the wrong button or didn't clean the scanner. Must have eaten lunch on the screen or something
It may be that your photo is bad, but having seen the final print quality, I doubt that they would be too fussed. Anyway when they got the new photo they would have got confused and may have thought - "better withdraw that application, lets pull it from the queue and work on it some other time. Does anyone know how to change a photo? How about we file it with all those passports and wait a few months when things get quiet?"Like I said I do feel for you, I applied in November 2004. Yes 2 0 0 4 and one OCI still has not come back. If I never have to go to the consulate again, I will be a happy man. That's why I got the OCI.
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PIO1 said:basis,
almost agree ... I get the feeling that maybe femaonline is your site
now help us out on adoption
Oh Mr Sherlock Holmes........what a finding.....Not only femaonline but utibank and all other websites are my sites...beware.....
But sincerely I am honoured.....
adoption - I have posted some info in earlier post.
Adoptions
AskG, basis, others ....
Whats the situation on the street, is there a demand for adoptive parents? A couple of years ago some acquaintances (Indian locals) were trying to adopt, and there was basically not many children available for adoption even for residents.
The process required large donations and in practice NRIs might have been given better treatment. In fact there was a scam where a doctor would deliver children from poor single mothers, pay the mother some money, and give the child away to a rich couple ...
AskG, basis, others ....
Whats the situation on the street, is there a demand for adoptive parents? A couple of years ago some acquaintances (Indian locals) were trying to adopt, and there was basically not many children available for adoption even for residents.
The process required large donations and in practice NRIs might have been given better treatment. In fact there was a scam where a doctor would deliver children from poor single mothers, pay the mother some money, and give the child away to a rich couple ...
PIO1 said:
Couple of my close friend have adopted children in recent past. The thing is that demand is certainly there. But most adopting parents want a child aged about 6 - 12 months old or less. Now that's where the waiting list comes in.
Adopting elder children is not prefered by families for reasons like bonding, joy of upbringing, getting connected with the child is perceived to be lower. And also adopting elder children by non-residents is very difficult process.
So as again with everything else this has also become unfortunatley a market of some sort. Where demand in pockets and for certain types is very high. This plays in long waiting times in those pockets.
btw ...one official US link on adoption of Indian child http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_398.html
tabular information on NRI / PIO immoveable property
http://www.nritax.com/UseFullInfo.asp#Purchase of Immovable Property in India.
The site has useful info on NRI taxation generally. http://www.nritax.com
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Note : The poster or this forum are not responsible for the content and accuracy of external internet sites
http://www.nritax.com/UseFullInfo.asp#Purchase of Immovable Property in India.
The site has useful info on NRI taxation generally. http://www.nritax.com
------------------------
Note : The poster or this forum are not responsible for the content and accuracy of external internet sites
gaurav2005
Registered Users (C)
My saga continues...
MEA, New Delhi are literally working overtime on my case. They might have received the new photos on Friday night and they worked on Saturday and sent me this mail:
The photo has been rejected once again unfortunately. OCI Cell personnel tells me the photograph is of good quality but some spots are coming on the face which may probably be because of some dust on the surface of scanner. Kindly scan the photograph again urgently after cleaning the scanner. As soon as it is received here, the cards will be issued and despatched.
Could'nt the OCI personnel check the images after scanning and before uplodading ? I am almost getting a feeling that it is done intentionally as they know I have been contacting lot of people complaining about them.
MEA, New Delhi are literally working overtime on my case. They might have received the new photos on Friday night and they worked on Saturday and sent me this mail:
The photo has been rejected once again unfortunately. OCI Cell personnel tells me the photograph is of good quality but some spots are coming on the face which may probably be because of some dust on the surface of scanner. Kindly scan the photograph again urgently after cleaning the scanner. As soon as it is received here, the cards will be issued and despatched.
Could'nt the OCI personnel check the images after scanning and before uplodading ? I am almost getting a feeling that it is done intentionally as they know I have been contacting lot of people complaining about them.
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