India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

[needurhelp]

Lightening Speed Response from PIO1 - Thanks

You said we can argue for the Consular Protection about the well known fact that OCI is not Dual Citizenship. But how many Indian Babus know about it. I keep clarifying to every Indian soul I meet socially stating the same over and over - every weekend. I hope one day the fact might sink in. Majority were misled by the media and politicians, which kept calling it Dual Citizenship, so naturally my stmt is underrated.

Could you please pass on a link which you think might have some supporting information regarding this matter.

 

[mangal969]

You said we can argue for the Consular Protection about the well known fact that OCI is not Dual Citizenship. But how many Indian Babus know about it. I keep clarifying to every Indian soul I meet socially stating the same over and over - every weekend. I hope one day the fact might sink in. Majority were misled by the media and politicians, which kept calling it Dual Citizenship, so naturally my stmt is underrated.

Could you please pass on a link which you think might have some supporting information regarding this matter.

http://www.indiacgny.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=384
Point No 4 is what you are looking for

In case you need consular protection in India you can always argue that you have entered India on a US passport and a Visa.
Eventually it will be clarified that OCI in it's current form is not dual citizenship.

 

[mangal969]

I am not sure whether this question is asked before in this forum.

Currently I am in the process of becoming US citizen. I have one property in India( Residential ) which I inherited from my parents. What will happen if I became US citizen but not yet got the OCI card. For example I will get my citizenship in May 2006 and OCI card somewhere in January 2007. Here are the questions

1. Am I legally eligible to hold the properties without a OCI card ?
2. Do I need to transfer these properties to a trusted relative and get back the same after getting the OCI card ?

Can you pl. let me know if you or someone you know faced the same situation.

Thanks,
V

No one would have faced the same situation because no one has an OCI card

Anyways to answer your question-
1.Yes but for a limited time (I think it's 6 months)after you renounce your Indian citizenship.
2.If you really trust that relative .But maybe you should consider taking your OCI before your time limit expires.

 

[mangal969]

Our Australian passport expires next January. DOes CGI accepts the passport for U1 visa sticker? Is there a charge for transferring the sticker to new passport?

For a minor it costs 155 for PIO, and if a PIO wants OCI the difference is US$25. Can I beat the system by applying for my son's PIO card and later upgrade to OCI (thus saving about $100). May be there is a fine print!!

1.Yes there will be a charge for transferring it to the new passport.But you can always carry the expired passport as well.

2.So far there is no fine print in PIO to OCI conversion,except maybe you should hold on to the PIO card for a reasonable amount of time before applying for conversion.

 

[qwert97]

No one would have faced the same situation because no one has an OCI card

Anyways to answer your question-
1.Yes but for a limited time (I think it's 6 months)after you renounce your Indian citizenship.
2.If you really trust that relative .But maybe you should consider taking your OCI before your time limit expires.

I would like to clarify that everytime you transfer the property to a relative (other than close blood relation i.e real brother, sister and parents) you need to pay stamp duty to GOI which runs into lacks of rupees. In addition you need to be present in front of the regitrar every time a transfer is done.

 

[PIO1]

You said we can argue for the Consular Protection about the well known fact that OCI is not Dual Citizenship. But how many Indian Babus know about it. I keep clarifying to every Indian soul I meet socially stating the same over and over - every weekend. I hope one day the fact might sink in. Majority were misled by the media and politicians, which kept calling it Dual Citizenship, so naturally my stmt is underrated.

Could you please pass on a link which you think might have some supporting information regarding this matter.

True - as far as you and I am concerned it is clear, but you might have some trouble convincing the babus!

Refs:
Consular Protection in International Law:

The most oft-cited problem is the conflict of diplomatic protection. States may espouse international claims on behalf of their citizens, but a conflict arises if a state wishes to espouse an international claim against another state on behalf of an individual who is a citizen of both states. The international law of "dominant nationality" generally resolves such situations. See United States ex rel. Mergé v. Italian Republic, 14 R.I.A.A. 236, 246-48 (Italian-U.S. Conciliation Comm'n 1955).
http://www.jeanmonnetprogram.org/papers/97/97-10-II.html

US State Dept on Dual Citizenship

The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

US State Dept on OCI

In 2003, India passed a bill that allows persons of Indian origin in sixteen countries (subsequently extended to almost all countries), including the United States, to apply for a form of dual citizenship known as “Overseas Citizens of India” (OCI). The government recently announced that the process for a person to become an OCI will be launched on August 15, 2005 or shortly thereafter. However, many specific details regarding what rights and obligations apply to a person who applies for OCI status have yet to be clarified. Presently, the Government of India offers a special visa for “Persons of Indian Origin” (PIO). It is contemplated that OCI status will be similar to PIO status. At present, the PIO card allows a person to enter and exit the country without a visa for almost any purpose for any period of time, without the requirement of registering with immigration authorities. However, PIOs cannot vote in Indian elections, and are also subject to other restrictions, such as the ability to own certain types of real property in India. The Embassy understands that similar restrictions may apply to OCIs. The Indian government has indicated that a person who applies for OCI status will not be required to take an oath of allegiance to India. Accordingly, at this time, it is not clear whether an OCI would legally be considered a “national” of India. Information on how to apply for PIO or OCI status can be found on the Indian Embassy’s website at http://www.indianembassy.org/consular/index.htm.

Any person who is considered to have dual nationality as a citizen of both India and the U.S is subject to all Indian laws. Moreover, a dual national also may be subject to other laws and regulations that impose special obligations on Indian citizens, such as taxation. In some instances such as arrest, dual nationality may hamper U.S. Government efforts to provide assistance abroad. Additional general information about dual nationality is available at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1139.html

UK on the other hand thinks OCI is Indian Nationality:

Indian Overseas Citizenship (IOC)
For the purposes of British nationality law, IOC is considered to be citizenship of another State.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/in...ructions/nis/chapter_14/annex_h.textonly.html

 

[PIO1]

I am not sure whether this question is asked before in this forum.

Currently I am in the process of becoming US citizen. I have one property in India( Residential ) which I inherited from my parents. What will happen if I became US citizen but not yet got the OCI card. For example I will get my citizenship in May 2006 and OCI card somewhere in January 2007. Here are the questions

1. Am I legally eligible to hold the properties without a OCI card ?
2. Do I need to transfer these properties to a trusted relative and get back the same after getting the OCI card ?

Can you pl. let me know if you or someone you know faced the same situation.

Thanks,
V

From the horse's mouth (RBI):

Q.13. Can a person resident outside India (i.e. NRI or PIO or foreign national of non-Indian origin) hold any immovable property in India acquired by way of inheritance from a person resident in India?


A.13. Yes. A person resident outside India can hold immovable property acquired by way of inheritance from a person resident in India as per the provisions of Section 6(5) of the Foreign Exchange Management Act, 1999.

http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/FAQView.aspx?Id=33

 

[rajudm]

photo requirment for PIO and OCI, is it different? (CGI, NY)

I am preparing documents to apply for PIO and OCI. Is the photo requirement different for both of them.

In India for Indian passport photos, studios use red background. Is red background ok with CGI, NY? Indian bureacracy wants to make life difficult for simple things too. Most places in US use light blue and light grey backgrounds, I guess it should be ok.

Please comment if any one experienced this at CGI, NY.

thanks

 

[fitness99]

I am preparing documents to apply for PIO and OCI. Is the photo requirement different for both of them.

In India for Indian passport photos, studios use red background. Is red background ok with CGI, NY? Indian bureacracy wants to make life difficult for simple things too. Most places in US use light blue and light grey backgrounds, I guess it should be ok.

Please comment if any one experienced this at CGI, NY.

thanks

The requirement for CGI Houston says white background.

 

[Mangal Pandey]

Ok Guys the latest news. I just called Sydney consulate. They told me they have already recieved some stickers and OCI cards. They have taken my name and no. And the lady told me she will give me a call in 1/2 hour after checking my card is there or not. Will she call back? Wait and seeeeee

WILL I BE THE THIRD PERSON?

 

[N704HK]

Pilot jobs for pio/oci

what is parity with nri mean with regards to employment in india...I am a US citizen with a pio card....I have my Indian commercial pilot's licence...I want to work for a pvt airline in India...do I need to get any clearance/permission from GOI(MEA/MHA..??) to apply/work as CO PILOT in India.

GOI requires co pilots to be Indian citizens.

Thanks.

 

[mangal969]

I am preparing documents to apply for PIO and OCI. Is the photo requirement different for both of them.

In India for Indian passport photos, studios use red background. Is red background ok with CGI, NY? Indian bureacracy wants to make life difficult for simple things too. Most places in US use light blue and light grey backgrounds, I guess it should be ok.

Please comment if any one experienced this at CGI, NY.

thanks

For OCi Red and light blue are unacceptable.If you dont have whites send light the light greys.
For PIO there is no specific requirement on the background.But confirm with the consulate

 

[mangal969]

what is parity with nri mean with regards to employment in india...I am a US citizen with a pio card....I have my Indian commercial pilot's licence...I want to work for a pvt airline in India...do I need to get any clearance/permission from GOI(MEA/MHA..??) to apply/work as CO PILOT in India.

GOI requires co pilots to be Indian citizens.

Thanks.

If GoI requires co pilots to be Indian citizens then i guess you can't apply for the job.....The other conditions are not important.
However you need to verify if the rule applies to the private airlines as well.
Contact the airlines you wish to work for and/or the ministry of civil aviation OR the DGCA.
http://civilaviation.nic.in/

 

[mangal969]

Ok Guys the latest news. I just called Sydney consulate. They told me they have already recieved some stickers and OCI cards. They have taken my name and no. And the lady told me she will give me a call in 1/2 hour after checking my card is there or not. Will she call back? Wait and seeeeee

WILL I BE THE THIRD PERSON?

All the best to you.....
Keep us updated on what is happening with you.You'd probably be better off calling them yourselves after an hour or so...... (Avoid lunchtime though)

P.S Are you a 2004 applicant ? And are the OCI cards coming filled in from India or are they being filled at the consulate ?

 

[Mangal Pandey]

Shame on you Mr. Sharma

Sorry guys, I think I am not that lucky. I called them after half hour. Now another lady tells me that there is no 'U' visas & OCI cards for 2004 applicants for the time being. They have only recieved the 'U' visas & OCI cards for the 2005 applicants. They are starting to inform those guys. They don't know anything about 2004 applicants.

So disgraceful !!!!

The only good thing I can do is publishing the telephone no: and Name of the person who is dealing or sitting on the old application, Call him, if a lady is taking the phone she just disconnects it with out saying anything. May be his private secretary. His name is Mr. M.C Sharma(Person who is in charge of OCI application recieved in 2004) Ph: 00911123389882.

 

[PIO1]

Sorry guys, I think I am not that lucky. I called them after half hour. Now another lady tells me that there is no 'U' visas & OCI cards for 2004 applicants for the time being. They have only recieved the 'U' visas & OCI cards for the 2005 applicants. They are starting to inform those guys. They don't know anything about 2004 applicants.

So disgraceful !!!!

The only good thing I can do is publishing the telephone no: and Name of the person who is dealing or sitting on the old application, Call him, if a lady is taking the phone she just disconnects it with out saying anything. May be his private secretary. His name is Mr. M.C Sharma(Person who is in charge of OCI application recieved in 2004) Ph: 00911123389882.

They would have difficulty processing OCI v1 (2004) as there were no documentation requirements.

My suggestion to Mr M.C Sharma, is that he return the forms and ask 2004 applicants to reapply on the new form, otherwise we will be waiting months.

I'm in the same boat - I applied in 2004. While it is disappointing, it's no big deal, this is no dual citizenship and no one is going to give us a pat on the back for being the 3rd 4th or 5th OCI. We deserve a slap in the face for being so gullible in applying so early and for thinking this is Dual Citizenship!

I need to go to India soon, and will probably apply for a 6 month visa. No point waiting for Mr Sharma to get through his 10 foot high in-tray!

P.S. I got through on the number - the guy said we have received the 2004 applications, and they are being processed. Mr Sharma was not there, so I will try tomorrow!

 

[basis]

There is a new site for OCI.


http://ociindia.nic.in/ociindia/OnlineOCIRegistrationG.jsp
http://ociindia.nic.in/

But one needs user ID and password for that. Where to get it ? Is it still under developement or only for babus (in both the cases why is on www)

 

[needurhelp]

Great Information - PIO1

Very educative information. Thanks alot for the links. I'll read thru it and will try to digest the info.

 

[qwert97]

Sorry guys, I think I am not that lucky. I called them after half hour. Now another lady tells me that there is no 'U' visas & OCI cards for 2004 applicants for the time being. They have only recieved the 'U' visas & OCI cards for the 2005 applicants. They are starting to inform those guys. They don't know anything about 2004 applicants.

So disgraceful !!!!

The only good thing I can do is publishing the telephone no: and Name of the person who is dealing or sitting on the old application, Call him, if a lady is taking the phone she just disconnects it with out saying anything. May be his private secretary. His name is Mr. M.C Sharma(Person who is in charge of OCI application recieved in 2004) Ph: 00911123389882.

This is a disgrace. Politically it may be better for GOI if they had processed the old applications first. I will call Mr Sharma tomorrow or ask my brother who lives in Delhi to contact him. So about 5000 applicants are at a mercy of someone at MHA

 

[basis]

How we have been cheated by Babus

Some good sites -

The following clearly shows what was intended and recommended. And how our babus and GOI have managed to cheat us by giving useless OCI.

http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter36.pdf
http://www.samachar.com/features/210605-middle.html
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter10.pdf
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in

What can NRIs / PIOs and now OCIs do -

http://iic.nic.in
http://iic.nic.in/piocard.htm

What are the rights of PIO card holders ? Review of PIO card scheme -
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter24.pdf

Consular and other issues of PIOs - http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter27.pdf