India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

[PIO1]

Basis-
1.Yes.The only thing you need to submit is your OIC card.If you are a PIO card holder you need to take an employment visa from the FRRO.

2.Yes.

3.A PIO/OCI can operate NRI accounts.I dont think they can operate RI accounts even if they have stayed in India.

4.Yes

5.Yes.Consult a tax expert

6.In a nutshell you can use all the facilities available to NRI's,which you could not as a 'foreigner' NRI qouta in colleges,Open NRI accounts etc

Agree with all these answers except (3). The RBI and the OCI Act treat Resident PIOs and OCIs similar to Resident Indians except in the scheduled cases (e.g. public post). I would think you should be able to open a resident account.

Scheduled Cases

7(B)2 An overseas citizen of India shall not be entitled to the rights conferred on a citizen of India—
(a) ... equality of opportunity in matters of public employment;
(b) ... election as President;
(c) ... election of Vice-President;
(d) ... Judge of the Supreme Court;
(e) ... Judge of the High Court;
(f) ... registration as a voter;
(g) ... member of national Parliament
(h) ... member oF state Parliament
(i) ... appointment to public services

Also in relation to (3) and (6) What are your rights as an OCI? You have none - the government of the day can notify changes without going to parliament. In practice they are trying to treat Resident OCIs like citizens and Non Resident OCIs like NRIs, except in the scheduled areas of 7(B)2, however there is no guarantee.

 

[PIO1]

Mangal,
Since I am an Australian Citizen I should consider applying for OCI from Sydney or Canberra. It will happen much faster than USA.

Have to find out if I could do it over mail....

Probably another reason that more Australians have applied is that like you, they are desperate to get out! There were some race riots on a beach there recently. Kind of like the US or UK in 1920...

 

[krazie]

OIC Form Question 16 (dual citizenship)

Hello,

Question 16 from the OIC form at http://www.mha.nic.in/oci/oci-main.htm asks Does the country of applicant(s) permit dual citizenship in some form or the other? YES/NO. If no, give specific details.

Does the US permit "dual citizenship" in some form? Any ideas on where to go to research this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[PIO1]

Hello,

Question 16 from the OIC form at http://www.mha.nic.in/oci/oci-main.htm asks Does the country of applicant(s) permit dual citizenship in some form or the other? YES/NO. If no, give specific details.

Does the US permit "dual citizenship" in some form? Any ideas on where to go to research this?

Thanks in advance!

Two things. (a) OCI is not dual citizenship. (b) to cut a long story short the US does allow dual citizenship - though they seem to frown on it.

 

[rajudm]

Pio1

Probably another reason that more Australians have applied is that like you, they are desperate to get out! There were some race riots on a beach there recently. Kind of like the US or UK in 1920...

It is not true, currently I am in USA. Ground reality is different (bondi beach/North Sydney beaches are not Australia). I have many friends living in both Canberra and Sydney now who are comfortable post riots.

Indian Embassy in Australia is more efficient. I happen to play in a cricket match for the Indian Embassy team 5 years ago, lead by Indian Ambassador to Australia (Mr. Parthasarathy). Also, I have a close friend working in Canberra Indian Embassy. She had told me about OCI version 1 application received last year as soon as they started. She was surprised to know that Indian consulates in US were lagging so far behind.

 

[mangal969]

Maybe you can ask your friend who to contact to get OCI started off the ground here in the US

 

[mangal969]

The US does permit dual citizenship but basically frowns upon it.

The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html.

But they do are not quite sure if OIC is actually dual nationality:
It is contemplated that OCI status will be similar to PIO status. At present, the PIO card allows a person to enter and exit the country without a visa for almost any purpose for any period of time, without the requirement of registering with immigration authorities. However, PIOs cannot vote in Indian elections, and are also subject to other restrictions, such as the ability to own certain types of real property in India. The Embassy understands that similar restrictions may apply to OCIs. The Indian government has indicated that a person who applies for OCI status will not be required to take an oath of allegiance to India. Accordingly, at this time, it is not clear whether an OCI would legally be considered a “national” of India.

So as far as thr form is concerned just answer Yes for Q 16

 

[basis]

Basis-
1.Yes.The only thing you need to submit is your OIC card.If you are a PIO card holder you need to take an employment visa from the FRRO.

This is news to me. I thought a PIO does not need employment visa. The http://www.immigrationindia.nic.in/ says - A PIO Card holder does not require a separate visa to visit India. The PIO Card holders will not require "Student Visa" for undertaking studies in India and similarly no "Employment Visa" will be required for taking up employment in India. However, they will be required to fulfil other pre-requisite conditions and other formalities in connection with their studies/employment as prescribed by concerned authorities from time to time.

Also http://mha.nic.in/pioscheme.htm says

WHAT BENEFITS ACCRUE TO A PIO CARD HOLDER:
*No visa required for visiting India.

*No separate “Student Visa” or “Employment Visa” required for admissions in Colleges/Institutions or for taking up employment respectively.

 

[Raj009]

I have completed 3 years of my life in Canada. I am just wondering whether I need to apply for Canadian citizenship. The economy in India is booming and is it a good idea to become naturalized in Canada?? Also will there be any repercussions if one decides to move back to Bharat after becoming a Canadian..

I was doing some research in this thread and the only con I found out was that we can't vote in India. Also there are some issues with buying some agricultural properties in India. But I guess I should be able to work in Indian IT companies and have a bank account in India just like a normal Indian citizen. The reason I am taking foreign citizenship is to have hassle free travel and to be in my home country .

Appreciate any valuable comments/suggestions..

 

[jenimmi]

Mangal's option is probably best - do it now if possible.

Thanks Mangal and PIO1. I wish I could talk to my Dad about this transfer, but it's just so embarrassing to ask him about this, right away. But I know this is what would have to happen eventually, in his time

OMG.. this is the only thread that is so busy .. to find my query that I only asked y'day and the responses, I had to go almost 2 pages back

 

[PIO1]

...Indian Embassy in Australia is more efficient. I happen to play in a cricket match for the Indian Embassy team 5 years ago, lead by Indian Ambassador to Australia (Mr. Parthasarathy). Also, I have a close friend working in Canberra Indian Embassy. She had told me about OCI version 1 application received last year as soon as they started. She was surprised to know that Indian consulates in US were lagging so far behind.

Thanks rajudm,

Now we know why the embassies have lacked the common decency of telling applicants why their OCI applications and fees have disappeared into the ether for 14+ months. They were busy playing cricket! Not very fast running between wickets I would guess Lots of bowling wide off the mark perhaps? Any dropped catches? Hahahaha!

Anyway Tomorrow is 7 Jan - day of the first OCI. Lets see which efficient consulate is the first to process the applications in the stipulated 15 days from 2 Dec 05.

 

[PIO1]

I have completed 3 years of my life in Canada. I am just wondering whether I need to apply for Canadian citizenship. The economy in India is booming and is it a good idea to become naturalized in Canada?? Also will there be any repercussions if one decides to move back to Bharat after becoming a Canadian..

I was doing some research in this thread and the only con I found out was that we can't vote in India. Also there are some issues with buying some agricultural properties in India. But I guess I should be able to work in Indian IT companies and have a bank account in India just like a normal Indian citizen. The reason I am taking foreign citizenship is to have hassle free travel and to be in my home country .

Appreciate any valuable comments/suggestions..

These days with a western passport it is easy to travel. My wife had an Indian passport for a world tour and I can't tell you how difficult and complicated it was to get all the required visas.

There are a few other differences (govt posts can not be held, for example, and there are investment restrictions - you are technically a foreigner and it is only marginally beter than the old PIO). Look OCI is a nice thing to have short of dual citizenship. But be aware you will lose Indian citizenship, and that the OCI is fundamentally a flimsy thing. Also check out the fee the Candian consulates charge for OCI!

 

[PIO1]

Thanks Mangal and PIO1. I wish I could talk to my Dad about this transfer, but it's just so embarrassing to ask him about this, right away. But I know this is what would have to happen eventually, in his time

OMG.. this is the only thread that is so busy .. to find my query that I only asked y'day and the responses, I had to go almost 2 pages back

Yes - don't worry about it. Even if you break all the laws, there is always the special permit that opens all doors in India. Paisa.

 

[PIO1]

http://o3.indiatimes.com/rpramod/archive/2006/01/05/401308.aspx#Comments

How many posts did this blog get in 2 days - is it for real? Most of them are rubbish, but feelings are sure running high in the lead up to OCI!

 

[rajudm]

Thanks rajudm,

Now we know why the embassies have lacked the common decency of telling applicants why their OCI applications and fees have disappeared into the ether for 14+ months. They were busy playing cricket! Not very fast running between wickets I would guess Lots of bowling wide off the mark perhaps? Any dropped catches? Hahahaha!

Anyway Tomorrow is 7 Jan - day of the first OCI. Lets see which efficient consulate is the first to process the applications in the stipulated 15 days from 2 Dec 05.

It looks like Indian consulates in US are capitalistics (like any other things in US). Playing sports is good I guess based on the performance of Australian High commission and it's subsidaries in processing OCI

 

[mangal969]

This is news to me. I thought a PIO does not need employment visa. The http://www.immigrationindia.nic.in/ says - A PIO Card holder does not require a separate visa to visit India. The PIO Card holders will not require "Student Visa" for undertaking studies in India and similarly no "Employment Visa" will be required for taking up employment in India. However, they will be required to fulfil other pre-requisite conditions and other formalities in connection with their studies/employment as prescribed by concerned authorities from time to time.

Also http://mha.nic.in/pioscheme.htm says

WHAT BENEFITS ACCRUE TO A PIO CARD HOLDER:
*No visa required for visiting India.

*No separate “Student Visa” or “Employment Visa” required for admissions in Colleges/Institutions or for taking up employment respectively.

I know of a person who is a PIO card holder who had to report to the FRRO when taking up employment.I assumed it was for an employment visa.Maybe it was just to pass the information to the government.I may be wrong.


Update: I was wrong.I verified with my friend.You do not need an employment Visa if you are a PIO card holder. Some companies however do insist on a police clearance certificate (whatever that is).

 

[Raj009]

Thanks PIO1. Appreciate your response...

 

[PIO1]

Thanks PIO1. Appreciate your response...

No probs Raj009, my family did a return to India about 15 years ago, ironically that was when we took out foreign citizenship (most Permanent residence visas/green cards are void once you change permanent residency for a period of time - i.e. if you leave Canada you may lose your PR).

In those days, it was OK to do simple things as a resident foreigner. I actually worked in India. But without a ration card it was so hard to get anything, and I'm not talking about rations! Things like school/college admission, telephone connections, gas cylinders etc. Not sure how it would be now, but OCI and even PIO residents in India are a relatively novel concept, and you will find yourself beating your head I think if you were to return to India to stay as a non-citizen.

 

[PIO1]

Another OCI = NRI botch:

http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IEU20060106093722&Title=Hyderabad&Topic=0
After deciding to confer citizenship rights on overseas Indians, the Central government is now considering a proposal to grant voting rights to them.

“The proposal is under active consideration. We will take a decision soon. However, the NRIs should also figure in the Indian voters list,'' Minister of State for Overseas Indian Affairs Oscar Fernandes and Chief Minister Y S Rajasekhara Reddy told reporters on Friday on the eve of the Pravasi Bharatiya Divas beginning here on Saturday.

I had a good laugh over this Q&A with the MOIA

http://us.rediff.com/news/2006/jan/06oscar.htm?q=np&file=.htm

Q: Some people say NRIs are bored of the PBD because nothing concrete comes out of it.

Fernandes: That may be true. It's a message for us who are working to make it happen. But every time a lot many new people also come [smiles], and that will make the difference.

Update: my letter to the editor

Your article NRI’s voting rights: Will Govt re-write history?

Has got three critical factual errors

http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IEU20060106093722&Title=Hyderabad&Topic=0

1) Overseas Citizen of India (OCI) does not get citizenship rights, this is entrenched early in the constitution which disallows dual citizenship (Article 9) – it has not been amended.
2) OCI is not NRI. A Non Resident Indian (NRI) is a full citizen of India, resident abroad who does not have citizenship of another country.
3) The constitution gives voting rights to all citizens, resident or not. Historically full citizens of India resident abroad (NRIs) have not been allowed to vote (perhaps this is unconstitutional?) To right this wrong, the minister is considering voting rights for NRIs not OCIs

 

[lcauser]

San Francisco Indian Consulate is accepting the OIC applications from Jan 9.

http://www.cgisf.org/oc/index.html