I want my social security tax money back!!

JANHK,

There is a lot of truth to what you say. Basically Canada faced the same problem as US about 15 yrs ago, but instead of ignoring the problem they came up with solution and made their system solvent.

Canada did the same thing with budget deficit. Now they have surplus every yr ie more collected than spent.

US will have to tackle these issues or else they will get screwed in the future. Already the US Govt is 9 trillion in debt. This is not even counting the debt of the American people themselves as US has a negative savings rate. Someone will have to pay the price and yes as credit becomes short supplied and interest rates go up it will lead to higher taxes and a fall in the standard of living of all US.

After the Dubai Port scandal Middle Eastern countries have started to slowly take money out of US. China also wants to diversy and broaden its investments outside US.

No doubt US is ecomomically more powerful than any country in the world today, but wiull it continue to do so with everyones head in the sand and ignoring a ticking time bomb ?

Maybe politicians are learning delaying tactics from DOL/ DOS etc or vice versa - who knows.
 
Only US Citizens and GC Living in this country will get SS

texancanadian said:
Other alternative is work 10 years in the US and contribute Social Security (SS) taxes.

If you have 40 quartes (10 yrs) of social security contributions you dont need to be a US Citizen or PR to get SS.

Ex I have already put in 10 yrs plus of contributing towards SS. Technically when I get old I am eligible to receive social security payments wherever I am in the world even without green cards.

Wether SS system will survive or colapse by them is a totally different ball game. SS Reform is another hot potato issue that no one wants to touch.
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But I remember that in 2003 they were debating that after 2015 or 2020 they will not have enough money to support and run this program. I dont know if its fixed or not but just sharing what I remember.

Good Luck.


 
SS for non citizen -- tell me how plz

can you guys send me any link which says a non citizen (and not residing lawfully in US) can claim SS benefit.

ssa.gov say in FAQ --

Q: Can a non-citizen receive Social Security benefits?

A: Public Law 104-193, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, permits payment of Social Security benefits to noncitizens living in the United States (U.S.) only if they are lawfully present in this country. The law requires that anyone living in the U.S. who applies for Social Security benefits on or after December 1, 1996, must provide evidence that he or she is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national, or an alien lawfully present in the U.S. as determined by the Attorney General.

This law does not affect:

Social Security benefits for people residing outside the U.S.;
Social Security benefits for people who applied before December 1, 1996; or
Entitlement to the lump sum death payment.
For more information, you may call our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213. Our representatives there will be glad to help you.

If you live outside the U.S., see http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foreign/ for information on services in other countries. If you reside in the United States you can apply for benefits online at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/applyforbenefits. You can find more information about whether you can receive benefits abroad as a non-U.S. citizen in the booklet, Your Payments While You Are Outside the United States (SSA Publication No. 05-10137) at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html.
 
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT if you are not a citizen or a GC Holder, you cannot count on social sec payments. Even if you may be officially able to get payments as per the rules today, the situation will be very different 20-30 years from now..
YOU WILL BE TAKING A BIG RISK IF YOU COUNT ON SOCIAL SECU if you are not a GC or Citizen..Even US citizens are skeptical of how much they will get. I am betting the rules will change 10-15 years from now where they will say no money left to pay to non citizens non-GC.
If they can change the rules and payment for their citizens, they can degfinitely do it for people from outside
 
JANHK said:
Friend,

In my field of expertise, I can find good jobs in Canada. Been there recently for H1 stamping & a short vacation, and tell you the truth...I am confident and impressed, especially with my US education, I can get a good stable job.

Well, I have to think about my family when considering a move to up north. I am very convinced that the tax given to the govt. is very well compensated by a well funded pension plan of Canada and the universal health care. Housing seems reasonable, compared to SF bay area, more employee favoring labor laws....I would say that Canada is a socialist country.

US SS is broken, just like the immigration system. The big deficits created today will be taken care of by way of increased taxes in future. There is no other way to pay off the debts, excpect by increasing taxes. The debt situation seems out of control. Therefore the idea of higher taxes in Canada is not that well received nowadays, especially keeping in mind the US debt situation.

When you are ready to take out your pensions (401K) that money will be taxed at the tax rate of that time. I think that is why it is called tax deferred. So, in future if US taxes are going to go up, then your pension will be taxed at higher rate than of today. So, if you average the tax burden of your entire life earnings, you may not find much difference between Canada and the US. But in case of Canada, you will be eligible for health care for free. Here, if you loose your job and not on H1/GC, then the burden of insurance premium falls on you.

These are my worries....just trying to share these with you guys. I am not trying to argue anything to prove something or someone is wrong....just trying to make myself understand where we are going from here.

Best of luck.
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Firstly let me say Canada especially for someone with a family and especially a single earner who can find a good stable job/career, right now represents a reasonable alternative.Having said that let me make a counter argument about the US situation.

One other way to address the defecits and debt is basically inflation! Taxes can stay the same and the debt and defecit can stay the same, once inflation and a falling dollar eats it up then that too can redistribute things. So taxes are not the only way!
Gov'ts often choose this way out since it is an indirect assault on savers and a redistribution of wealth. It happened here early 80s and could and probably will happen again. The biggest losers would be those middleeasterners and Asian central banks who hold currency reserves in dollars. The biggest gainers would be, well the biggest debtors that is joe public and uncle sam.
There are always ways out of this, and smart economists are well aware of this. MArket forces determine all this, and if people from all over the world wish to trust this country with their savings despite all the mismanagement you percieve................well so be it. Thats the approach of the US Gov't now.
Surely this will cause a hangover in the US economy but it will not be as bad as you project with high taxes and potential insolvency as some say.
I am no economist but thats my take.
 
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Sorry my Friend, I disagree....debt is NOT just inflation.

The inflation is compensated by interest rates, not by debts. The interest rate adjustments done by feds are indicators of inflation and feds use interest rates to control inflation. This is technically a short-term solution, not a long term solution.

Debt, on the other hand is a long term liability.

There might be many other ways, as you said, to reduce debt. The situation during 80s was different. The debts created during 80s were compensated by US defense sales and strong manufacturing activity inside the US. Now it is totally different. Defense is doing well, but most of the manufacturing went offshore during the last 20 odd years. At the same time, financial services became strong..a good thing. But remember we are fighting a two folded war, one in Iraq and the war on terror. This is taking lots of resources from our tax dollars.

To me increase in tax rate is a definite thing of future. May be at some point that will become the only way to finance the debt.

Coming back to SS, it seems to me that financing SS can be a burden on our future generations, unless Congress bring in a legislation to amend the availability and extent of SS benefits....which I think very much possible. At the very moment they realize that the SS system is going bankrupt, they will bring in legislation to cut benefits or increase the age limit for eligibility. This is very much possible especially when reports are coming out that average life span in the US is close to 100 years. Therefore, I would say that the SS tax we are paying now may not provide the same benefit in future as they offer today. Or may be a legislation may increase the credit from 40 to 60 to become eligible. I think those who think, that once they are citizens of this country and earn a 40 SS credits, that they can get full benefits of SS once they retire or go back to their home countries, are in fools paradise.

To tell the truth, I have no faith in the SS system or the Medicare or other old age health care systems in the US. Day by day Canada seems more promising to me....

Thanks





posmd said:
Firstly let me say Canada especially for someone with a family and especially a single earner who can find a good stable job/career, right now represents a reasonable alternative.Having said that let me make a counter argument about the US situation.

One other way to address the defecits and debt is basically inflation! Taxes can stay the same and the debt and defecit can stay the same, once inflation and a falling dollar eats it up then that too can redistribute things. So taxes are not the only way!
Gov'ts often choose this way out since it is an indirect assault on savers and a redistribution of wealth. It happened here early 80s and could and probably will happen again. The biggest losers would be those middleeasterners and Asian central banks who hold currency reserves in dollars. The biggest gainers would be, well the biggest debtors that is joe public and uncle sam.
There are always ways out of this, and smart economists are well aware of this. MArket forces determine all this, and if people from all over the world wish to trust this country with their savings despite all the mismanagement you percieve................well so be it. Thats the approach of the US Gov't now.
Surely this will cause a hangover in the US economy but it will not be as bad as you project with high taxes and potential insolvency as some say.
I am no economist but thats my take.
Click to expand...
 
Inflation

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I did not mean Debt is Inflation. I was stating that inflationary trends are something that this problem can bring and that it along with a devalued dollar over time can cause the debt figures to loom smaller than they are today.
Already the US is pressuring China to devalue its currency and would surely like the same thing to happen to any country with which they have a trade defecit.
Likewise they are thwarting China and middle eastern investers from taking up real investments in hard assets, instead cornering them into treasury bonds etc. Most neutral observers realise national security argument is a smokescreen.
No less than Warren Buffet predicts a likely scenario of a devalued dollar in future years. All this says to me that the US plans to handle these defecits through a variety of mechanisms, no doubt higher tax rates and curbs on social spending will be part of the mix, but the scenario is not what you are suggesting.
In addition the household wealth of the US is estimated at 70 trillion dollars as against foreign investments here of about 4 trillion dollars. Clearly current trends cause some concern but the situation is by no means bleak.
On the other hand, comodity markets have realised this to some extent already and have themselves already discounted the dollar, thats why noone, not the least the Asian economies are flinching at the current Oil/Gas prices.
Canada's future does indeed look bright with massive mineral resources and a smaller population. I have said to many people, were I not in the US, I would look no further than Canada.
 
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posmd said:
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I did not mean Debt is Inflation. I was stating that inflationary trends are something that this problem can bring and that it along with a devalued dollar over time can cause the debt figures to loom smaller than they are today.
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Governments with high debt can just print money to pay off the debt. That printing of money will cause inflation, and I think that is the situation you are talking about. But that doesn't get them out of the SS debacle, because SS comes with a cost-of-living adjustment. They can print money only to pay off other debt like Treasury bonds.

While it is true that you don't have to be a US citizen or GC holder to collect SS, you do have to be a citizen of one of the few countries that have a reciprocal agreement with the US. Canada and the UK are among those, while India is NOT.

And yes, I can certainly see them cutting out non-citizens 30 years from now when SS doesn't have enough money to pay US citizens.
 
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