i have a bad feeling about this whole thing

vg0405

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Outsourced: Death in Silicon Valley
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, MAY 26, 2003 08:22:47 PM ]

WASHINGTON: On a recent April afternoon in Silicon Valley, moments after he was told he had been laid off from his computer programming job at a Bank of America training centre, Kevin Flanagan stepped into the parking lot and shot himself dead.



Some of America's technology workers, who like Flanagan have also had to collect pink slips over the last several months, think they know why Flanagan took his life: Bank of America not only outsourced his job to India, but forced him to train Indian workers to do the job he had to give up.



In the weeks since his death, the techies have used the incident as fuel to fire a campaign against outsourcing to India, an issue that now seems poised to become a major sticking point between the two countries. Several US states are already considering legislation to ban or limit outsourcing.



Bank of America is one of several major US corporations – General Electric, Microsoft, Intel are among others - under scrutiny for outsourcing jobs to India. The Bank created what is called a "Global Delivery centre" in 2000 to identify projects that could be sent offshore.



Since then it has signed agreements with Infosys and Tata Consulting Services (TCS) to provide solutions and services.



In an e-mail exchange with this correspondent, Kevin's father Tom Flanagan said "a significant reason for which my son took his life was indeed as a result of his job being outsourced."



"Did he blame India for his job loss? No. He blamed the "system." He couldn't understand why Americans are losing jobs. Rather I should say he understood it economically, but not emotionally," Flanagan said.



Bank officials, who did not return calls relating to Flanagan's death, have said in the past that the deal with Indian companies would effect no more than 5 per cent of the bank's 21,000 employees, or about 1,100 jobs, in its technology and operations division.



According to some surveys, the US has lost at least 800,000 jobs in the past year and some 3.3 million jobs will move overseas over the next few years because of outsourcing, mostly to India.



The Bank has also acknowledged that it had asked local workers to train foreigners because such knowledge transfer was essential. According to Tom Flanagan, his son was "totally disgusted" with the fact that he and his fellow-workers had to train foreigners to do his job so they could take over. "That sir is a travesty," he said in one e-mail.



US tech workers are challenging the corporate world's claim that it is outsourcing work to improve bottomlines and efficiency. Some analysts have also pointed out that US corporations were being forced to tighten up by the same people who are moaning about outsourcing, and who, heavily invested in the stock market, demand better performance.



But on one website that discussed the Flanagan case, a tech worker pointed out that data processing consumed only a small per cent of revenues and was hardly a drain on the Bank's profit.



"(It is) a prosperous bank which has let greed trump any sense of patriotism or social responsibility," he fumed.
 
Things like these will come and go. Finally what will survive is skill superiority .. be it of Americans, Indians, or Chinese.

What is strange though is, that an Indian newspaper published this news, and not CNN/MSNBC or the likes of it.
 
Originally posted by Silly Man
What is strange though is, that an Indian newspaper published this news, and not CNN/MSNBC or the likes of it.

SM,

This has unfortunately happened again and again. Indian Newspaper has acted against the interest of Indians. It is a silly tradition of showing how much neutral they are ...
 
This post originally contained a draft of the following letter to the editor of TOI. I have edited the post to replace the draft with the final letter sent. - N


Cupertino, Caifornia. May 27, 2003.

Apropos Outsourced: Death in Silicon Valley, by Chidanand Rajghatta, Times News Network,
[ Monday, May 26, 2003], let me first say how deeply sorry I am at the death of Kevin Flanagan.

I write not to belittle the pressures that may have been at work, but to put in perspective the news, as it concerns and affects the local migrant community already at the receiving end of negative local sentiment on issues related to outsourcing, temporary workers and immigration.

Immigration, H1B temporary workers and outsourcing are three different issues.

While we do hear a lot of media whining about H1B workers taking away American jobs at "cheaper" salaries, we know that that is completely untrue, since not only is there a very enforceable, and enforced, law that the wages paid to a temporary worker must be the prevailing wage as determined by Department of Labor, but also that for each H1B worker hired, the H1B dependent employer must pay a $1,000 fee towards a fund for training American workers as well.

Coming to work temporarily in the USA is not an automatic ticket to immigration either, as the huge numbers of laid-off workers in the Silicon Valley and elsewhere who have gone back to East Europe, China, Israel and India in the recent depressed economy have shown. I have known several of them personally, and they too seemed to accept the decisions made only from an economic and not an emotional standpoint. It is extremely difficult, not to mention self-destructive wage administration policy, to try to hire an immigrant at a salary lower than an American worker's… in fact, considering the high cost, including lawyers' fees for an immigrant petition, is certainly not worth the economics given the number of hirable talent available in a depressed economy. The handful of immigrants and potential immigrants still surviving these economically turbulent times to be valuable to their employers are probably well worth the investment that America is making in them.

Outsourcing, however, is a phenomenon that is far removed from the concept of either a temporary or an immigrant workforce. By definition, it is the decision by an organization to cease performing those tasks related to its business that are not its core competencies, and relinquishing both the responsibility and accountability for the same to external organizations. Corporate America is outsourcing to be able run leaner and more focused
organizations on the one hand, and to avoid the infrastructure costs of maintaining a peripheral competence on the other. Inevitably, there are emotional and individual prices to pay as businesses look for the least expensive alternative.

Legislation, however, can play a significant role in regulating the percentage of outsourcing that can be done to sources outside the country, and administer what percentage needs to be retained inside to ensure that displaced workers from in-house peripheral departments from one organization can be reemployed in other American organizations specializing in that very peripheral activity as a core competence.

Both the H1B program and Immigration are severely legislated and regulated programs. It is time that lawmakers regulated outsourcing, so that incidents like the one involving the particular named bank can be avoided.

Meanwhile, the media ought to be more responsible in its reporting than to give a truly human interest story a sensation-seeking slant as the obvious use, in bad taste, of the word 'Outsourced' as a leader in the otherwise
poignant title suggests. It only adds fodder to the ill-researched feeding-frenzy the local media has been having on this and related issues, and hurts the local immigrant community in an unfair, undesirable and totally unnecessary way.

-N
 
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Niladri, your message is so "textbook perfect" and "politically correct" .. that I had to wake myself up 3 times before I reached the end of it ..

Is there a reason for it?
 
Yes, I am getting ready all arguments in a 'dispassionate' manner in case the media does get out of hand.

For starters, I'm thinking of sending the post as a letter to the editor where the obviously sensation-seeking article appeared in the guise of human interest.

Koi aitraaj?
 
niladri, makes sense. I think we should all object to that article @ TOI.

About dispassionate .. dang that is so not fun. But yea, makes sense.
 
GREEEEEEEEEEEEED of Corporate World

Want more, better , and better to fill up their bellys:D:D
at the cost of simple employees
Govt need to intervene ?

Other wise
It goes just like India got looted by greed of East India Company
( in other way )
 
Originally posted by 1amShantanuB
GREEEEEEEEEEEEED of Corporate World

Want more, better , and better to fill up their bellys<...>
Some outsource out of greed, others - just to make ends meet. I am under outsourcing pressure myself :) being 485-adjustee, with all this train-that-guy thing. They'd like to outsource everything, outsourcing bubble. Well, eventually, it will subside to some normal proportions, till then, hang on.
 
SM,

Letter sent to Editor; TOI.

I have edited my original post (4th from top in this thread) to contain the final letter.
 
Originally posted by lallo_yadav
SM,

This has unfortunately happened again and again. Indian Newspaper has acted against the interest of Indians. It is a silly tradition of showing how much neutral they are ...

This Rajghatta guy works for Times of India. Times of India
is run by people who still miss the british rule in India. Where else
in the world you can find people who take pride in writing some
shakesperian english in their editorial crap and also do not
hesitate to look down upon their own language/culture and
religion. It is the 'times of india' like intellectual bastards who
would like to make make a common indian folk from Village feel inferior because he does not know 'Engleesh'.

-JC.
 
for each H1B worker hired, the H1B dependent employer must pay a $1,000 fee towards a fund for training American workers as well.[/B]

Perhaps it doesn't work anymore

http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/16_23/federal/17899-1.html

Administration officials say the H-1B Training Grant Program, which is funded by the $1,000 fee employers pay for each H-1B visa, does not fulfill its goal of training U.S. workers to fill high-skill jobs now held by foreign workers on those visas.

“We have no evidence that it was replacing the need for foreign workers that employers were bringing in, [and] it is an expensive program,” said Emily Stover DeRocco, assistant secretary in the Labor Department’s Employment and Training Administration, which administers the grant program.

In 2000, $185 million in H-1B visa fees went to the training grant program, and $69 million went to a National Science Foundation math and science education program, DeRocco said. The decision to redirect the training grant money was made jointly by the Office of Management and Budget and the Labor Department, she said.

In a tight 2003 budget cycle, the money spent on H-1B training grants would be better directed to the department’s effort to certify foreign workers’ eligibility for permanent employment in the United States, DeRocco said. The process can take up to five years in some states, a length of time she called unconscionable.
 
I'm not buying that there is anything neutral about a one-sided story. Sure, B of A is not returning calls... have TOI asked Infosys or TCS for a comment?
 
justchecking,

Just checking... I have to fight the intellectuals on their terms. I hope you are not going to hold that against me. :)
 
Originally posted by niladri30
justchecking,

Just checking... I have to fight the intellectuals on their terms. I hope you are not going to hold that against me. :)

I understand your dilemma :).

On the same note yesterday again CNN showed on
Moneyline program H1B story. They also showed some sad
white guys cribbing about H1Bs. Funny funny funny...
'you invented capitalism, and now you want protectionism.'.

-JC.
 
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the bit about being more expensive for the employer because of legal fees etc is not necessarily true - I have paid every cent of my legal fees for H1b, I- 485 etc - the employer only "sponsored" the thing in terms of " signing on the dotted line"
 
Very mean of your employer.

I sure hope you get your GC fast...I hate it when people have to go through these kind of things. Don't mistake this for pity...it is not. I am mad at what happened with you, and wish the end of this situation for you with all my heart.

I paid for the medicals and I-485, and AP and EAD. H1, Labor and I-140 incl. lawyers' fees were paid for by employer.
 
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One of my friends is a really outstanding scientist in his field, and he had to pay through his nose for the lawyer fees, and the lawyer really charges. Sad part is, although the scientist is outstanding, the pay isn't, he's still a Fellow. Makes me think, if the lawyer is taken care of by employer, its not such a bad deal.

My situation is same as so many others here I guess, employer pays for 1485, I pay for EAD and AP, paid $600 for both. When renewal time came lawyer asked for same amount and I said, Hell No! So I renewed on my own. Anyway, sorry I digressed.

That story disturbed me more because its really tragic that he gave up on life over a job, and it can happen to any weak minded person. Some people can move on. He could have fought back. Its possible that outsourcing is a bad idea morally, but not economically. So many manufacturing plants have moved out of US due to high maintenance costs, and none of the shoppers are complaining. Walmart still has profits.

BOA, Walmart, why should they be different? They all know it fellows. Outsourcing is here to stay. So while we should feel bad for Kevin Flanagan and his parents, we must agree that cheaper always works. And H1Bs are cheaper.
Thats my point.
 
It would be interesting to see what happens if this issue (overseas outsourcing) goes to congress for debate. I believe this government is anti-immigrant, but the issue also includes loss of "american" jobs which seems to play a major role in the President's economic agenda. With the 2004 Presidential election debate heating up, this may become another headache for the politicians to deal with.Anyone aware of any congress person taking this issue up?
 
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