I Guess,my GC may be revoked in future as INS OFFICER words

L

Lookatrapidigm

Registered Users (C)
Details:
My Case(485) was approved 29th of July 2002 and I got GC card also some time in December 2002 since I am primary applicant of GC Processing. My wife case was tranfered to local INS(boston) for interview and she is dependet on me.

I got laid off from my GC sponsor company on 29th of Oct ,2002 and I got same day some other job to work. I have lay off(Job termination) letter to prove my intension to continue in my GC sponsor company.
We attended interview with out lawer yesterday(29th of april,2003).

INS Officer(she): Loooked at all certificates ( Marrigae,my GC card(of primary) , Birth and My pay slips(current and past)). and She took my wife i-94 ,(she did not return i-94 to us).

INS Officer Said : she pointed out that my(primary) employment change is problem and she will send final decision/RFE as she said?

Then we requested her, my wife i-94 then she said she need i-94 to take final decision?


I have couple of questions abt this :

1) Why INS officer have taken my wife i-94 to approve?
2) If it is RFE, what type of documents she is expecting from me?
3) There is any chance to revoke my GC? if INS revoke my GC, Could i get any chance to retain/remain my GC by using any INS law.
4)Could i send Document from lawer before INS officer Decision saying that "I could work other companies once GC sponser company did lay off me" I mean That It is my intension. Is it worth?


Please help me, I wil appricaite you in advance.
Thanks









finally said: We have couple of
 
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Lookatrapidigm...

BCIS can and does revoke green cards after approval. your main worry is your own green card, not your wife's right now. that i think is what jim mills was hinting at in his reply to your last post when he mentioned that he can think of scenarios you might not want to hear.

while this is entirely true that you are not employed with your sponsoring employer through no fault of yours, that BCIS woman might just take a more simplistic view of the situation.

you already have mentioned that that woman was rude - i don't think you can expect sympathy from her. don't even try to handle this yourself.

PLEASE TAKE THIS ADVICE FOR YOUR OWN SAKE: get a good lawyer, get his help to deal with the adjudicating officer. we can offer all sorts of advice and comments in these forums, but you need somebody to go toe to toe with BCIS.

again, GET A LAWYER!
 
My guess is that the officer is an inexperienced officer who is taking the your job change from very simplistic view point (as Pork Chop suggested). I am sure she will discuss the matter with her supervisor. And hopefully her supervisor will find nothing wrong with it. This is all my guess though. I saw so many people got layed off on I485 stage and still got GC after that. And it's hard to believe for me that your GC will be revoked when you were layed off after getting GC. But BCIS is always unpredictable and inconsistent. Yet I am still positive that your GC won't be revoked and your wife will get GC approval.

As your interview is done already, I don't think they will call for interview again. They will let you know the final decision (hope that's approval). Until they send you some letter to stating their decision I don't see any reason to hire a lawyer and waste money before that. So wait for the decision, then if something wrong happens, then hire a lawyer and appeal. Meanwhile look around for a good reliable lawyer from your friends's cricle, internet etc.
Anyway, whatever happens post your result in this forum.
 
READ the eta 750 a&b carefully.The labor/I-140 is ALMOST PRACTICALLY a GC.The JOB OFFER is just an OFFER not need not be a real job that pays as is claimed on the 750 eta a & b.

Once the labor is approvedd and the I-140 goes through you are all set for the gc.Actually during the whole process of labor/gc/I-140/I-485 the employee CAN be oversees and not working for the company at all in the USA . So there will be noproblem at all. Just wait and the gc will be mailed to you. No need to go for a lawyer and waste money.
 
word of caution for durgum...

while i sincerely hope that the GC will arive in the mail for Lookatrapidigm, but i must point out to durgum that your post demonstrates an inexact understanding of employment-based (EB) GC laws.

permanent residence based on employment is predicated on the availability of a permanent job for the alien upon approval of permanent residence (which is commonly referred to by variations of terminology similar to "future job offer"). the employer making that job offer is the alien's "sponsor". it is expected under the same law that the alien, once approved, will take up that job with his sponsoring employer on a "permanent" basis. if the alien were to quit soon after his approval, his actions would demonstrate to the BCIS that he had no intentions of continuing with his sponsoring employer, and therefore the BCIS could deem this "immigration fraud", which could be reason enough for cancellation of his GC even after approval.

this also explains a quirk of the AC-21 portability law: AC-21 is the portability of an approved i140 (not i485) while one's i485 is STILL PENDING. under this portability, the new employer inherits the approved i140, and becomes the new sponsor. so whoever is your sponsor at the time of i485 approval, that is the employer whom you are expected to work for on a permanent basis. that is why AC-21 portability is available only BEFORE GC approval, not AFTER.

the crux of the matter, in the case of Lookatrapidigm, is intent. he, or more accurately, his lawyer MAY need to prove that he had every intention to work permanently for rapidigm. obviouly, the BCIS understands that "permanent" does not mean "perpetual". it is acceptable for people to change jobs after GC approval, and they do all the time, after a reasonable time has passed while they continued their employment with their sponsoring employer. usually, this question comes up five years after the GC approval, at the time of citizenship or GC renewal, when this question becomes one of less immediate concern. in Lookatrapidigm's case, unfortunately this question came up rather early, due to his wife's interview.

in the best case scenario, the BCIS will simply go ahead and approve his wife's case, while keeping his approval intact. in any case, the interview has already taken place, so there is nothing to be done now. i am merely cautioning Lookatrapidigm that, if what he gets in the mail from BCIS is not their GC as durgum is predicting, then he should be ready with a lawyer lined up.
 
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Few points:

1. Lookatrapidigm did not leave his job. He was layed off. The raeson I concluded that the officer is inexperienced because she just overlooked that fact that he was layed off - she assumed the matter is simple "job change".

2. From my understanding - I-140 is employer+employee specific. Where I-485 is only employee specific - it has nothing to do with employer. So I feel that the time of "permanent emoplyment" starts from I-485 filing (or I-140 approval) - not from I-485 approval and that is why any I-485 filer is given EAD card so that he/she can take the "future job" (for the employer who filed I-140) with his/her EAD card (without using H1 visa). And that's why AC-21 is actually I-140 transfer (not I-485). So if the "intend" is a problem, that could happen for AC-21 too. But still people are getting GC, right? So we know there is a provision for job change (AC-21) before getting GC. Then where is the provision for job change after getting GC? To be frank it's hard to believe that it's OK to change job with AC-21 before getting GC, but it's not OK to change job after GC.
 
As I said before this GC process is all paper work thats all it is NOTHING else.I doubt if the employee leaves after I-140 is approved there is nothing much the sponsoring employer can do about it.Other wise the work permit at the time of filing I-485 for bothe the employee and his spouse become redundant.Also i-485 has NOT a single document that requires from the sponsoring employer.In other words the employer is no more in the picture after the I-485.

This whole process of gc is employers necessitated. Lot of paper work and manipulation of the employees qualification and the so called JOB OFFER's requirements.

I bet in 99% of the labor cases the lawyers attest so many things like the offered salary etc ...... The employer /employee are totally unaware of these details during the correspondence that goes on between the local labor office and the lawyer who has the rights to represent the employee/employer(usually thes employer/employee PAY these lawyers thousands of dollars to handle their cases).

Over the years lawyer have MASTERED the art of MANIPULATION of the paper work that is needed to convince the BCIS to get the approvals of the labor/gc.
 
pralay & durgum

Lookatrapidigm did not leave his job. He was layed off. The raeson I concluded that the officer is inexperienced because she just overlooked that fact that he was layed off - she assumed the matter is simple "job change".

if the BCIS wants to raise a stink that the person in question is not working for the sponsoring employer REGARDLESS of the circumstances under which employment was terminated, THEY CAN! i am going to post rajiv khanna's comments in the the Green Card FAQ section of this website which hint at this possibility.

my advice to lookatrapidigm was to simply prepare for this possibilty, should it come to that.

So I feel that the time of "permanent emoplyment" starts from I-485 filing (or I-140 approval) - not from I-485 approval and that is why any I-485 filer is given EAD card so that he/she can take the "future job" (for the employer who filed I-140) with his/her EAD card (without using H1 visa).

that is simply not correct. you could be potentially unemployed throughout the pendency of your i485, or work for some employer other than your i140-sponsoring employer, yet get approved for GC. the period of permanent employment starts with GC approval. the "future" in "future job" refers to the period of time following GC approval.

And that's why AC-21 is actually I-140 transfer (not I-485). So if the "intend" is a problem, that could happen for AC-21 too. But still people are getting GC, right? So we know there is a provision for job change (AC-21) before getting GC. Then where is the provision for job change after getting GC? To be frank it's hard to believe that it's OK to change job with AC-21 before getting GC, but it's not OK to change job after GC.

strange but true: read the AC-21 law. since the portability applies to i140, upon GC approval, your i140 "goes out of scope", just like your EADs, APs, i94s, visas etc. therefore any portability that was available with it, also goes away. AC-21 is a relatively new law, and addresses only a certain part of the whole immigration continuum; other parts of this continuum still fall under old laws. what the AC-21 law is telling the applicant is, in effect, this: "if you have any need and/or intention to change your employer, do so now while your AOS is still pending; once your GC is approved, we expect you to stay with your employer who was your sponsor at the time of GC approval."

As I said before this GC process is all paper work thats all it is NOTHING else

if that were so, nobody would ever get denied, right?

certainly, the value of documentation cannot be underestimated; and lawyers are better at it than most of us. that is pretty much what i was telling lookatrapidigm: while there is a GREAT possibility that you won't face any problems, just in case just have a preliminary understanding with a lawyer to do what they do best, in the words of durgum: "...lawyer have MASTERED the art of MANIPULATION of the paper work that is needed to convince the BCIS to get the approvals of the labor/gc...", should the need for that arises.

as i mentioned earlier, here is a portion of the Green Card FAQ from http://www.immigration.com/faq/greenvisa.html:

Q39 What is the indication of "permanency" while working with my employer after getting my GC?.

A39 The basic premise (or theory) behind permanent residence through offer of employment is that an employee is accepting a job on a "permanent" bases. Normally, I would say working for one year or more with the same employer after getting your GC is PROBABLY enough indication of permanency. Less than 4-5 months is perhaps evidence to the contrary But REMEMBER, this is just my own guess. Technically speaking, the moment you decide that you will leave after a certain period of time, "permanent" intent is gone.

Q72 After getting stamped in the passport for employment based immigration, how long is an employee required to work with the employer who sponsored the employee for immigration.

A72 There is NO prescribed time limit. There are a couple of considerations that must be borne in mind. The basis for getting a GC are that you took up a "permanent" position. If you leave too soon, INS may claim that you did not intend to take the job up on a "permanent" basis.

Q73 Please discuss the consequences, immediately after obtaining immigration (meaning within a day or two).

A73 a. If the employee voluntarily quits/leaves the employer. You may have a problem.
b. If the employer fires the employee for performance related reasons. You may have a problem.
c. If the employer fires the employee because of the personality problems. You may have a problem.
d. If the employer lays-off the employee for economic reasons (lack of adequate business or resources). You may have a problem.
e. If the employer lays-off the employee to avoid payment of the agreed or the promised salary (as stated on the Labor Certification or the Job Ad.) You may have a problem.

Q74 Can a Permanent Resident Visa be revoked for any of the above stated reasons?

A74 Yes
 
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Re: pralay & durgum

Originally posted by Pork Chop

that is simply not correct. you could be potentially unemployed throughout the pendency of your i485, yet get approved for GC. the period of permanent employment starts with GC approval. the "future" in "future job" refers to the period of time following GC approval.
 [/B]
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I think this point is debatable. I would like to hear some more arguments from other people too. My view is that (technically) is that:

1. I am working for company A with H1. Company B sponsored me for GC. They got I-140 approval. I (not company) filed for I-485 and EAD. I got EAD approved. I left company A and used EAD card (or H1 trabsfer - becuase h1 is dual intend) to start working for company B. In that case starting time of parment job start from the day I joined company B.

2. I work for company A on H1 and they sponsored me for GC. They got I-140 approval. Then I file for I-485. That means the start time of parmanent employment start from the day I applied for I-485. Applying for I-485 indicates that I am "willing" (or intend) to take up the job from temporary basis (H1) to "parmanent basis".
 
Any RULE MST BE WRITTEN somewhere to be believed.So please show me the 1 year/4/5months/or whatever it may be to show the INTENT to work for the sponsored employee.

Dont infer the INTENT as what ever you want whoever YOUR lawyer may be .

This gc is MADE for the employers need to hire cheap/convenient/easy/quick labor in USA from outside/inside the USA through h1/gc. Now THE employer is NOT BINDED by anyone (BCIS or LABOR DEPT) to keep the gc holder/born citizen through ALL the time of the company's existense. LOOK what has happenned to sun,kucent,nortel,american airlines/united airlines in the past 2-3 years.

Companies shrink/expand/disappear in /from 1- 100 years of timeframe in USA . So should campanies HOLD on to the gcs after approvals even though THE employer might get cheap/convenient/easy/quick labor ?

No that is a fallacy.Recall some american born citizens suing sun micro six months back about this whole h1/gc processes.As long as the labor dept/BCIS follows the rules on the eta750a&b rules I doubt there is nothing anyone can do about all this paper work/PROPER documentation for the labor/gc.

During the mid 1990s a lot of my friends with exceptional degrees fro reputed american universities had a real tough time to clear the labor/gc while some of my friends with asian degrees and virtually little qualification with some PROPER DOCUMENTATION got through the whole process of gc in less than 2 years, one guy never worked for the employerr, never got a simple paycheck through the whole process.

So explain how could that be possible?I feel sorry about those highly qualified guys who had to waste years for this whole process of gcs just for the WANT of PROPER DOCUMENTATION .Thats BCIS
 
pralay:

regardless of what might appear theoretically correct to either of us, what ultimately carries the day is (a) what is in the rules, and (b) what is INS's/BCIS's working interpretation of those rules. under the current rules, nonimmigrant/H1 and immigrant/GC process are completely independent of each other. therefore, the employed-time accrual under your nonimmigrant-H1 status *will not* count toward the time accrual once you get your immigrant-GC status. this isn't so because i say so, but that is how INS/BCIS has viewed it. i wish your interpretation was the operative one, but i wouldn't risk going by it.

durgum:

as rajiv khanna (who incidentally is the host of this website, not my lawyer) has stated clearly: "There is NO prescribed time limit...". so if you are going to demand that somebody show you the written rule about time periods, then it ain't gonna happen.

what one has to go by is "precedent": i.e. how INS has viewed this matter in past, which really is my point (b) above: INS's/BCIS's interpretation of a rule. for example, if a rule states that a person, upon grant of an EB green card, must be employed by his sponsor on a "permanent" basis, but does not state a time period in black & white to indicate permanent intent, then the INS will apply certain "rules of thumb", if you will, to quantify that law. that is what most most lawyers will advise their clients to go by. and in the absence of clear-cut numbers, one would be well-advised to err on the side of caution. as to what would be cautious and what might be reckless, you are free to come to your own conclusions on that.

as regards the disparity in how some folks' cases fare better than others', well, duh..., of course that's what happens. and that is pretty much beyond one's control. isn't that what happened with lookatrapidigm? even after his GC approval, had is having a worrisome episode?

obviously, you yourself are the best-qualified person to decide how to deal with a situation in your own case. if you think that you are better-advised to save your money by foregoing professional counsel, then more power to you!
 
Pork Chop,
I agree that the fuzy rules which are not written, totally depends on the interpretation of the personnels. You have to remember that it also give you space to argue with your point and hence appeal. It's like divorce case where apart from basic rules and principles, all other things depends on case to case basis and how much your lawyer can make legal point.
But I did not see any rule where it says "the employed-time accrual under your nonimmigrant-H1 status *will not* count toward the time accrual once you get your immigrant-GC status. this isn't so because i say so, but that is how INS/BCIS has viewed it. ". I believe AOS is a gray area - which can be counted to non-immigrant status or immigrant status - totally depends on how much you can convince to BCIS. I understand it's hard, and it will give you lots of sleepless nights, and if you lawyer is not good he/she may not be to make the case. but I don't see any reason back out after comming this long way.
 
The eta 750 a&b form has to be read and UNDERSTOOD. This whole gc /h1/lobor are created for the sake of the USA's employers need so taht they can get CHEAP/CONVENIENT/EASY/labor in usa from/outside USA.

Suppoase an us citizen wants to start a companywith ssy less than a meagre $5000.No one in this country can stop/laugh at his intentions.Now he wants to save money in all areas specifically in the labor. So he CAN do the paper work(PROPERLY) to hire an h1 from /outside usa.He can start his labor as well.He can INFACT hire say 100 people technically.As this process goes on(one SINGLEeta 750a&b form willsuffice for those 100 guys ASSUMING all 100 guys qualifications are a PHD/master from an oversees university, just to STRESS my point) , time passes, by let us say 2 years.Those 100 guys whose labor is in progress are still oversees somewhere in ASIA/AFRICA/whatever.

Now as soon as their labor is done THE EMPLOYER gets them to usa and pays them some salary .Their I-140 is approved with the help of some kind of companys bank balance of THE SALARY OFFERED IN THE ETA750A&b let us say $50000).

Now remember his company still exists in the prelimnary stage without genersting single revenue of a penny.THEN he fires them as he finds some other 100 guys in?outside USA for his economical needs.Those initial 100 guys CAN APPLY FOR THEIR I-485 and STILL GET their GCS.

The ETA750A&b /labor/gc is THAT SIMPLE.Show me a single case of a gc that gor his gc revoked for quitting the job in a months/2months/3 months/1 day/whatever days less than 6 months after getting his gc.Then I's BELIEVE you or any lawyer.

Most Lawyers say so many things as they want to make sure rhier clients appreciate their work,scare clients as they will clinch to them as long as they want it possible,squeze more money and some other sinister designs

I personally know a case where a guy cleared his gc with the sole help of an employer without working a single day, without a single paycheck from that employer as that employer was his close friend.When i knew about that case I was shocked BUT realistically ther is NOTHING wrong about that scenario.That is the way BCIS DESIGNED this whole process og h1/labor/gc.
 
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You need to understand that an I-485 is used for adjustment of status, not just for Employment Based applications. The ability to obtain an EAD based on the pending I-485 proves nothing regarding AC21 since everyone with a pending I-485 has this capability, even those applying based on familial relationships such as marriage to a USC.

Suppoase an us citizen wants to start a companywith ssy less
than a meagre $5000.No one in this country can stop/laugh at
his intentions.Now he wants to save money in all areas
specifically in the labor. So he CAN do the paper work
(PROPERLY) to hire an h1 from /outside usa.He can start his
labor as well.He can INFACT hire say 100 people technically.As
this process goes on(one SINGLEeta 750a&b form willsuffice for
those 100 guys ASSUMING all 100 guys qualifications are a
PHD/master from an oversees university, just to STRESS my
point) , time passes, by let us say 2 years.Those 100 guys
whose labor is in progress are still oversees somewhere in
ASIA/AFRICA/whatever.

I don't understand this statement at all. How will a single ETA750 A&B suffice for 100 people? As far as wage is concerned, I just had an client increase an employee's salary from $35,000 to $42,000 per year since it was too low to get an LCA for filing the H-1. Labor Certifications are scrutinized much more closely than LCAs for prevailing wage.

The rule is that for an employment based GC to validly issue the person must intend to work for the company "permanently" and the company must intend to employ the person "permanently". Now if the day after the GC is approved and the employee starts work with the sponsoring employer, there is a fire at the work location that kills all the employees except the new GC holder, and then the company folds due to the fire, it probably would be possible to convince INS of that intent. However, if the day the GC is issued, the employee walks in and says "thanks for the GC, goodbye" then INS would likely cancel the GC if they became aware of the situation since they would almost certainly call it immigration fraud. They would probably only become aware of it if the employer complained to them or when the person filed for naturalization. That's probably why your friend managed to get away with never working for the sponsor when the sponsor was his friend.

Just because you can get away with commiting fraud, doesn't mean it's not fraud. On the way to my office I was doing 85 mph in a 65 mph zone. I did not get caught. I was still speeding.
 
The eta 750 a&b clearly asks the details of the employee/s that is/are being the JOB OFFER. That should answer your query about a single eta750 a&b from beinf enough for 100 guys who are outside usa provided the job requirements and qualifications are the SAME EXACTLY for the job/s offered to those 100 guys who for argument sake DO POSSESS the SAME qualifications.

It is just a PLAIN OFFER in the STRICT SENSE NOTHING ELSE.NOWHERE in this whole process is the BCIS ASK for a PAYCHECK as a PROOF towards the labor CERTIFICATION. EVEN that offered salary probably REMAINS in the DARK to the employee in MOST of the cases as the LAWYERS gain ATTESTING rights from the employee and the employer and they get PAID for GETTING the very rights from the employee/employer.

The employer only PROOVES the CAPABILITY of being able to PAY the EMPLOYEE the SALARY OFFERED on the eta 750a&b and most probably NEVER pays that amount in most of the CASES.That is what I-140 is for .A profit/loss statement, bank balance,tax returns and other FINANCILS DOCUMENTS are sufficient enough for the CAPABILITY.

The salary being OFFERED is a BARGAIN between the EMPLOYEE?LAWYER and the LOCAL LABOR DEPT so are the jobs requirements and the corressponding qualifications.Once the LOCAL LABOR dept okays the job requirements and qualifications there is nothing MUCH any body question about that DEAL.

Now the INTENT to work for the employer MEANS little as long as there no WRITTEN LAW EXISTS 1month/2month/whatever months is a just MYTH/FALLACY.IF and only IF the EMPLOYER complains to the BCIS about the employee quitting the job there would be a problem. That is not the case as the EMPLOYER is doing this labor/gc only for the SAKE of saving money by going for the CHEAP/CONVENIENT/EASILY available labor through hiring the NON US CITIZENS.

RECALL - some born american citizens SUING sun micro systems lately and APPARENTLY nothing coming out ot it against SUN.THAT is way BCIS deals with this labor/gcs..Lawyers have MASTERED THE ART OF MANIPULATION OF PROPER DOCUMENTATION.

This labor/gc process highly favored/tilted towards the EMPLOYERS NEEDS.
 
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Originally posted by durgum
The eta 750 a&b clearly asks the details of the employee/s that is/are being the JOB OFFER. That should answer your query about a single eta750 a&b from beinf enough for 100 guys who are outside usa provided the job requirements and qualifications are the SAME EXACTLY for the job/s offered to those 100 guys who for argument sake DO POSSESS the SAME qualifications.
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The ETA750 B requires the education and experience qualifications for a specific individual. I imagine that if 100 people had EXACTLY the same education and experienc, graduating the same time and working for the identical companys in the identical positions for the exact same periods of time, your point may have some merit. Otherwise, the ETA750B is specific to a particular individual. The approved LC can only be used once to file one I-140. An original is required and it is impossible for an employer to get a duplicate from DOL.

Originally posted by durgum
It is just a PLAIN OFFER in the STRICT SENSE NOTHING ELSE.NOWHERE in this whole process is the BCIS ASK for a PAYCHECK as a PROOF towards the labor CERTIFICATION. EVEN that offered salary probably REMAINS in the DARK to the employee in MOST of the cases as the LAWYERS gain ATTESTING rights from the employee and the employer and they get PAID for GETTING the very rights from the employee/employer.[/B]
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What are "attesting rights"? Obviously, I am not paid for getting "attesting rights" since I have no idea what you are talking about. You are correct, there is no requirement for the employee to work for the employer at all during the Labor Certification process.

Originally posted by durgum
The employer only PROOVES the CAPABILITY of being able to PAY the EMPLOYEE the SALARY OFFERED on the eta 750a&b and most probably NEVER pays that amount in most of the CASES.That is what I-140 is for .A profit/loss statement, bank balance,tax returns and other FINANCILS DOCUMENTS are sufficient enough for the CAPABILITY.[/B]
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You're right that all the employer needs to prove is the ability to pay the alien worker. This is obviously true since there is no requirement for the alien worker to actually work for the employer until the GC is approved. Whether AC21 will permit the alien worker to join another employer and use I-485 portability is another issue that actually has not been resolved since there are no implementing regulations for AC21. Some people are getting approvals without working for the sponsor but at least one service center (California) seems to believe that the alien must work for the sponsoring employer for at least 180 days after the I-485 has been filed for AC21 to apply. They are issuing RFEs (in at least some cases, again there are no clear regulations for this so there may be variations even within the service centers, to verify that the alien had actually worker for the sponsoring employer for the entire six month period after filing the I-485 before they are approving cases using AC21 portability).

Originally posted by durgum
The salary being OFFERED is a BARGAIN between the EMPLOYEE?LAWYER and the LOCAL LABOR DEPT so are the jobs requirements and the corressponding qualifications.Once the LOCAL LABOR dept okays the job requirements and qualifications there is nothing MUCH any body question about that DEAL.[/B]
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Your point being . . . ? You are correct that once DOL (both State and Federal) have approved the Labor Certification and verified that the salary offered for the particular position with duties as described in the approved Labor Certification is above the prevailing wage for the work location that is pretty much the end of the wage determination. So what.

Originally posted by durgum
Now the INTENT to work for the employer MEANS little as long as there no WRITTEN LAW EXISTS 1month/2month/whatever months is a just MYTH/FALLACY.IF and only IF the EMPLOYER complains to the BCIS about the employee quitting the job there would be a problem. That is not the case as the EMPLOYER is doing this labor/gc only for the SAKE of saving money by going for the CHEAP/CONVENIENT/EASILY available labor through hiring the NON US CITIZENS.[/B]
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Absolutely incorrect. The written law requires that the alien work for the sponsoring employer "permanently". To then go on and require that the alien need to work for the sponsoring employer for at least a specific period of time (whether 1 month, 6 months, 1 year, 10 years, or whatever) would by definition not be "permanent". An H-1B is valid for up to six years but that is still considered a "temporary" visa.

Originally posted by durgum
RECALL - some born american citizens SUING sun micro systems lately and APPARENTLY nothing coming out ot it against SUN.THAT is way BCIS deals with this labor/gcs..Lawyers have MASTERED THE ART OF MANIPULATION OF PROPER DOCUMENTATION. [/B]
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I only wish that I had the mastery of everything that you say I (as a lawyer) have "mastered". Anyone can file a lawsuit in the US (unless you are a corporation you do not even need an attorney to do so) and the filing of a lawsuit proves nothing. The fact that the lawsuit was not successful may be more of an indication that the suit was meritless than it is that there is some type of widespread conspiracy and fraud.

Originally posted by durgum
This labor/gc process highly favored/tilted towards the EMPLOYERS NEEDS. [/B]
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This is of course true. The entire intent of the employment based GC process it to permit US employers to fill positions that US workers are not available to fill.
 
I dont want to argue with you . I want to say if anywhere the proof needed to show ANYONE(BCIS oe WHOEVER) the PROOF of the employee working for the sponsoring employee would be a simple document, THAT IS THE PAYCHECK.

NOW PLEASE TELL ME WHERRE IS THE PAYCHECK ASKED FOR IN THE WHOLE PROCESS, NEVER EVEN MORE OR LESS THAN THAT IS CLAIMED ON THE ETA750A&B.

YOU are CONTRADICTING your self

**
You're right that all the employer needs to prove is the ability to pay the alien worker. This is obviously true since there is no requirement for the alien worker to actually work for the employer until the GC is approved

**
Absolutely incorrect. The written law requires that the alien work for the sponsoring employer "permanently". To then go on and require that the alien need to work for the sponsoring employer for at least a specific period of time (whether 1 month, 6 months, 1 year, 10 years, or whatever) would by definition not be "permanent". An H-1B is valid for up to six years but that is still considered a "temporary" visa.
**

The above statements of yours are CONTRADICTORY

Now when I mentioned the sun micro law suit case I just tried to show how an american citizen is being deprived of a job in these HARD economic times.I agreed all the time that it is the EMPLOYERS right to ignore the american citizen both born and immigrated and hire cheap/convenient/easy labor through h1/labor/gc processes. There is nothing wrong with this process.The employee will never be in trouble UNLESS the sponsoring EMPLOYER complains against that employee with BCIS/LABOR DEPT if the employee quits the company in less than 2-3-4 months as soon as he gets the gc.EVEN THAT I HAVE DOUBTS as the process is IRREVOCABLE as THERE is no written law supporting that thr employee has to work the employer for a certain period ANYWHERE in this world.
 
durgum

> The above statements of yours are CONTRADICTORY

these two statements by jim mills are *not* contradictory, since the first applies to the time period BEFORE GC approval, and the second to AFTER approval.

this is the point you have been missing, it seems to me, all along:

you do not necessarily need to work for your sponsoring employer while your GC petition and/or AOS application are pending. EB immigration is simply predicated on the future availability of the job.

once your GC is approved, you DO have to start working for your employer at that point in time... remember the "future" job? well that "future" becomes "present" when your GC comes through. if you do not take up that job and work for *some* period of time that is sufficient to indicate the permanent intent of the employee, the INS will take that as immigration fraud.
 
Originally posted by durgum

YOU are CONTRADICTING your self

**
You're right that all the employer needs to prove is the ability to pay the alien worker. This is obviously true since there is no requirement for the alien worker to actually work for the employer until the GC is approved

**
Absolutely incorrect. The written law requires that the alien work for the sponsoring employer "permanently". To then go on and require that the alien need to work for the sponsoring employer for at least a specific period of time (whether 1 month, 6 months, 1 year, 10 years, or whatever) would by definition not be "permanent". An H-1B is valid for up to six years but that is still considered a "temporary" visa.
**

The above statements of yours are CONTRADICTORY
Click to expand...

Nothing contradictory about it. The employee must work for the sponsoring employer "permanently" (meaning indefinitely) when the GC is approved.

My second statement makes this clear when put in context (reflected in my first statement). The two statements are absolutely in accordance, upon filing the LC, the sponsoring employer must prove the ability to pay the offered wage. The sponsoring employer must continue to have this ability throughout the GC process. When the GC is approved, the alien must join the sponsoring employer and work "permanently" (again, that means indefinitely). This is how it worked under the law prior to AC21.

We can argue about what AC21 means, and it is not really possible for me to lay out a clear description as I did above since there are no implementing regulations for AC21. CSC appears to believe that AC21 does not apply at all unless the alien works for the sponsoring employer for at least 180 days after filing the I-485. CSC requests paystubs (as you suggest) to prove this. Even under AC21, upon approval of the GC, the alien still needs to join the sponsoring employer (whoever that is at the time) and work "permanently". That requirement has not changed. The requirement to work for the sponsoring employer "permanently" upon GC approval IS very clearly written in in the INA. AC21 permits the alien to change intent as to who to join upon approval (under certain conditions) but it does not eliminate the requirement to work for the sponsoring employer (again, whoever that is) in a "similar" position "permanently."
 
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