Here is the Govt's Response to The complaint

Thank you all

I need every one's input. All view points including those I disgree with are welcome.

What does this all mean? Nothing. They could have drafted a more fair response and narrowed the controversy. They chose not to do so. This is their right as defendants. But I find it shameful that our government litigates in a manner calculated to waste the time of the courts rather than achieve justice.

Just because they deny facts or law does not alter either. If they wish to go to trial, we will line up the court with witnesses who can testify as to the harm suffered.

Agreed, they have strong legal arguments. the strongest one being the separation of powers - normally - court will not tell an agency how to run its business. Nevertless, it is upto the court to intervene or not. That is why we are here, in court.

What will we do? We will fight - win or lose. And as a community, we will never again be treated with disregard. We will try always to fight for the right cause - win or lose. It is the struggle that is important.

We must simultaneously approach Congress for help and not just fight on the judicial front.

The first big test in this litigation would be the determination on the class action. Let us see where that goes.

Hang tight. I will keep you informed.

We need some more ledearship amongs you folks. More people to plan, organize, move.

Just my two cents. My warmest regards to all of you.
 
Re: Rajiv

Read the following excerpt from our Memorandum in Support of Class Certification:

Exceptions to Mootness

Capable of Repetition, Yet Evading Review

The most commonly used exception to the mootness doctrine is that the claim is “capable of repetition, yet evading review.” Sosna v. Iowa, 419 U.S. 393 (1975). Under such an exception, the court will generally look to whether “(1) there [is] a reasonable expectation or a demonstrated probability that the same controversy will recur involving the same complaining party, and (2) the challenged action is in its duration too short to be fully litigated prior to its cessation or expiration.” Sierra Club v. Martin, 110 F.3d 1551, 1554 (11th Cir. 1997).
It is also pertinent to examine whether the defendant systematically violated the law on a “class-wide basis” in which case the pre-certification mooting of named plaintiffs’ claims “does not moot such a class action claim.” See Samuels v. District of Columbia, 248 U.S. App. D.C. 128, 770 F.2d 184, 193 n. 5 (D.C. Cir. 1985).
Intervention By Other Class Members

Courts will permit substitution of named plaintiffs whose claims have been mooted if there exists a live controversy in regards to the class members. See Swan v. Stoneman, 635 F.2d 97, 102 n. 6 (2d Cir. 1980) (“To the extent that appellants’ argument is that Swan’s death does not moot the class claim if one of the proposed intervenors can be substituted as a named plaintiff, we agree.”) The Swan court further states “[a]s a general rule, a class-action cannot be maintained unless there is a named plaintiff with a live controversy both at the time of the complaint and at the time the class is certified.” Id. at 102. The Swan court further notes that this general rule is not without exception and that the “capable of repetition, yet evading review” exception can also overcome the requirements of the general rule. See id. Similarly, in Silva v. Vowell , the court stated that “[o]nce the [named plaintiffs’] challenge became moot and put the named plaintiffs’ standing in question, the plaintiffs and the judge should have realized that intervention by another plaintiff was appropriate.” 621 F.2d 640, 650 (5th Cir. 1980) (case remanded to district court to allow “an appropriate named plaintiff [to] intervene.”), cert. denied, 449 U.S. 1125 (1981). Similarly, the court in Rivers v. Califano permitted the intervention of new plaintiffs with live claims and granted class certification. 86 F.R.D. 41, 45-46 (S.D.N.Y. 1980); see also H. NEWBERG, NEWBERG ON CLASS ACTIONS §§ 2.25-2.26 (2d. ed. 1985 & Supp. 1988). Such action is especially appropriate where the events causing mootness have only individual rather than class-wide impact. H. NEWBERG, supra § 2.25.
Relating Certification Back to the Time Of Filing of the Complaint

Finally, the Cockrum v. Califano decision strongly suggests that class certification is appropriate in the case at bar. 475 F. Supp. 1222 (D.D.C. 1979). In Cockrum, plaintiff claimants filed suit against defendant, the Secretary of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, claiming that the Social Security Administration failed to process certain appeals of benefits decisions in a timely manner. See id. at 1224-25. The Court found that “the problem plaintiffs complain of is systemic and nationwide in scope, and that a long-run solution, generally inappropriate and premature at a preliminary stage, must be made systemic rather than ad hoc in the final judgment.” Id. at 1232 The Supreme Court has acknowledged that a special allowance in dealing with a class action may be necessary for claims that become moot during the pendency of an action:
There may be cases in which the controversy involving the named plaintiffs is such that it becomes moot as to them before the district court can reasonably be expected to rule on a certification motion. In such instances, whether the certification can be said to "relate back" to the filing of the complaint may depend upon the circumstances of the particular case and especially the reality of the claim that otherwise would evade review.
Sosna, 419 U.S. at 402 n. 11. In Cockrum, the Court acknowledged the transitory nature of the class action by stating “it is likely … that many named parties will obtain decisions throughout the pendency of this action.” Cockrum, 475 F. Supp. at 1233. In concluding that class certification was appropriate, the Cockrum Court stated “[f]irst, the Court concludes it would be undesirable if the concept of mootness were defined so that unfettered power to control judicial review rested with defendants.” Id. The Court further added that the “plaintiffs’ advance epitomizes an ‘injury capable of repetition yet evading review’ … [because] a plaintiff dependent on Social Security and the efficiency of the system remains threatened by the defects in the system even though his immediate complaint is resolved, because the systemic delays could affect the claimant in the not unlikely event of a subsequent controversy with the system.” Id The court noted in its reasoning that, as in Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973) “refusal to consider a class-wide remedy merely because individual class members no longer need relief would mean that no remedy could ever be provided for the continuing abuses.” Id. (citing Blankenship v. Secretary of HEW, 587 F.2d 329, 333 (6th Cir. 1978)). The Court continued its analysis by stating that regardless of whether the individual claims were moot, “the action is not moot as between members of the plaintiff class and defendants.” Cockrum, 475 F. Supp. at 1233. The Court ultimately concluded that certification should “relate back” to the date of the filing of the complaint and that the class action claim was not moot. Id.
Application to the Case at Bar

If at all an issue, mootness is certainly not a fatal issue in this matter. First, there remain six viable Plaintiffs representing the class and the subclasses. The controversy, thus, is alive and justiciable. Second, this claim falls properly within the “capable of repetition yet evading review” exception. Third, the claims of the class survive the claims of individuals. Based on the history of application backlog at the USCIS, inexorable probability is that the same controversy will recur continuously. The transitory nature of the class may allow for the resolution of individual claims before the matter is fully litigated. The mootness of these individual claims should not affect the certification in the class because like Cockrum, “the action is not moot as between members of the plaintiff class and defendants.” Cockrum, 475 F. Supp. at 1233. The case at bar is factually similar to the Cockrum decision and therefore, class certification should be appropriate in this case as well. Similar to Cockrum, the violation is class-wide and its effect is nationwide in scope. Fourth and final, this Court can properly certify this class by “relating back” to the filing of the Complaint. The Cockrum Court was unwilling to grant defendants the power to control judicial review by allowing them to destroy class certification through mooting the claims of individual named plaintiffs. The same rationale is applicable to the case at bar.






Originally posted by poongunranar
Rajiv:

I had discussed about this in the TSC forum sometime ago. I predicted that in order to avoid the culpability arising out of this suit, INS may well adjudicate all the plaintiffs thereby making the suit moot. At least a few cases of the plaintiffs have been approved within the past few months. If this trend continues, the cause for Class-Action gets seriously undermined. Do you think the priority is to first get the case admitted as Class-Action, so that the approval or pending of the plaintiff's applications becomes moot to our interests?

Also, as a lawyer, I am sure you appreciate that POSITIVE contribution means not merely venting out or singing cymbals of sycophancy. Rather, it is mostly appreciated in legal attack/defense that failure to prepare is preparing to fail. I hope my views on the flip-side of the coin would help bolster the points you will muster to counter the counter-claim filed by the defendants. Thanks for steering the efforts and good luck
 
Hmmm-- My messages in a seperate thread.

Good idea.

Monica please guide. Deepa, Rashmi, can you ladies take care of this for me please. Copy all my messages in "The Complaint" forum together somehow. First, tell me what you are planning please.
 
I will need those letters and your affidavit

Originally posted by gc4health
I am not sure if the following points can be used for legal proceedings

1. Got rejected when I apply for a credit card, as I don't have GC and they don't recognize EADs/APs. ( Hudson Valley Federal Credit Union )

2. Got rejected, when applied for Mortage from one of the Lender as I am having the status of non-resident Alien



If needed I can supply the written rejections letters.


Please email me.
 
Re: Re: Hmmm-- My messages in a seperate thread.

Originally posted by dsatish
Rajiv,
I don't think that it's a good idea to post static messages in a thread. Let's continue the lively discussions we are having all these days. Once in a while, we see some arguments getting out of control and we can prevent it by your timely intervention or by deleting the useless postings.
Peace every one. Let us continue our normal discussions here.


The plan is to have a COPY of my messages. No need to remove them from ongoing discussions.
 
Re: Thanks Rajiv Khanna

Originally posted by poongunranar
..for the Shepardize that is pretty strong in the case-law to rule out mootness of the suit. I was able to see how the defendants were very eager to ride over the mootness of the plaintiffs to attentuate the cause of class-action. Seems like the case-law is pretty strong in this aspect.

I am currently outside the US and am trying to Shepardize a few points based on case-law. Especially in Ngwaniya V Ashcroft , US District Judge Hon'ble Richard Kyle had heavily come down upon the INS' bungling -- especially on the additional paperwork that is resulting as a result of annual work-permits. He minced no few words against the INS by lambasting heavily with the following terms: "Kafkaesque," "egregious," "plainly harmful." Hon'ble Justice Kyle had specifically blasted INS for not providing work-permits that are valid until the duration the asylee's petition is taken up for adjudication. Now, to my knowledge, am not sure, if there is any proviso that we can cite to further our case to have at least the work-permits and advance-paroles to be valid until the petition is adjudicated. He observed, "The law requires the government to grant a work permit automatically and to keep it valid as long as an asylee remains an asylee: 'not a minute shorter, and not a minute longer,' he thundered.

As many of the other friends in this forum have questioned the logic of FIFO, LIFO inconsistencies in processing, again the very same Judge blasted by observing, "I condemn the INS for the 'one-law-for-Tuesdays-and-another-law-for-Wednesdays' mismanagement, including practices that varied office-by-office and day-by-day." He even criticized the stealthy nature of INS' policy regarding issuance of work permits as it was never communicated to anyone in the field.

My two cents. I will take more time to offer my few more cents, for whatever it is worth with additional Shepardize. Thanks, once again.


:-) That is a good decision. But there are legal variations. There was strong, statutory mandate against the govt.
 
Re: in defense of Cinta...

Originally posted by rajum
I want to reiterate my strongest and whole hearted respect for Cinta...I reiterated even in couple of mails on some previous occasions..
The amount of research he has done and the amount of reports he brought to the attention of this forum...probably no one has done... I really mean no one...I have seen his passion and I am one of his admirers...

Alok2004,
I can understand you sentiments. I also belong to the same identity as you. Probably one needs to accept on the totality of one contribution and not on some of the postings which one does not like. If you follow Cinta's contribution to this forum closely, probably you would have appreciated his passion.

Rajiv,
I think the personal slandering reached a peak and I request you to delete all the postings which were concentrated on attacking each other. To be fair, remove this posting also.

-rajum


I would like leave it alone for now. I think people should monitor themselves. I do think the posts are getting a little nasty. If people will not stop the bickering, I will have no choice but to delete all posts I find unnecessary. But that is such an unnecessary censorship. Control yoursleves folks. Like Edison said, try not to attack the person, even if you disgree with the post. Please. This takes away from my time that I can use to help all of us in creative, constructive, effective ways. We ARE a community. Enough said. Let us move on from here.
 
Re: Devils Advocate

Originally posted by mendi
Somewhere in the middle of this thread, it annoyed me to see personal attacks on fellow members.

Poong... is actually doing a great job in challenging some aspects of the litigation, sort of Devil's advocate.

Do we realize, it would be much more harsh and tough in Court?

Just because he said something negative or showed weak links doesn't mean he is against it or is trying to prove someone including Rajiv (ji) wrong.

Defendant's attorneys are going to do much more worse and fielding his (and similar) questions now makes us much more prepared. I wish there were more of people who will poke holes in the litiagtion now and prepares us to be well equipped in front of judge.

Even if his intentions were/are wrong (which I doubt), I'd thank him for doing it now and curse for not doing it earlier :) Even if his information/knowledge is wrong, it doesn't hurt us to prepare for such.

I know it is difficult to not take it personally when someone says things which perturbs our very belief in the process to which we have been holding our dear lives (in US), but at the same time I'm glad he is not on the other side.

As he (or someone else said), failure to prepare is preparation to fail.

Last, but not least, let us not forget freedom of speech.

God speed.


I agree.
 
No thanks needed

By the way, an email from a member of our community yesterday suggested a new line of argument that we are looking at. So, to not evaluate suggestions is inane. I look at everything.
 
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