GC revoked?

R

robwoj

Registered Users (C)
Hey -

I have a question regarding the possibility for INS to pursuing cases of unauthorized employment prior to getting green card (even 7 years prior to getting green card). Assumming the job was something like baby sitting - would that ever create any problems? Would they go that far as revoking green card because of this?

Thanks!
 
This is only theoretically possible.
It is practically possible if you do something bad
butget off the criminal law hook or become a terrorist
suspect. If government exhaustother means
to get you but fail, they will use the immigration
card. Whatyou should do is :(1) keep a low profile
life and don't make anyone jealous enough (2)
don't tell your baby-sitting stories to anyone even
your wife. (3) don't tell immigration law to
the baby's parents. They may not know that
they can blackmail you. (4) keep dirts on those
people who know your dirts so thatyou can counter
blackmail.
 
Hmmm..

I actually checked with lawyer and this is what I found out

1) If the green card is through marriage then nothing to worry about. This green card would actially be through marriage.

2) When you work illegally you loose status at that time. But if you leave a month later and never work illegally again then you should be fine to get the green card anyways. The problem would only occur if you worked illegally and stayed in the US because the government could say that you were illegal for the whole time.

3) In CP you can in fact say that you worked illegally and as long as you were not out of status for more than 6 months you would still get the green card.

4) Even if you worked illegally all the time and you filed 245 section - you should still be okay.

5) If you marry a US citizen - you would be completely fine even if you did not manage to stay legal here even for a day and you did not bother to file for section 245. You only need to have entered legally.

So you can get screwed but there are ways around the problems.
 
Hey JoeF -

I think you might be wrong. Section 245(k) for example is active for anybody:

Individuals with priority dates before 4/15/2001 (and physically present in the US on 12/22/2000). So if sb was out of status for less than 180 days than it should be fine.

And they do not need to file an application by a certain date as long as they meet the requirements.

Am I wrong on this one?
 
Hey JoeF -

Also - can you let me know if you are out of status if you do some work for a company that is not in the US, never did business with the US and does not have a US office? This assumes you maintain other legal status like H1B.

This would happen if you are a partner in the company because you established it prior to coming to the US. You may then give advice, talk with partners etc.

Can you get paid dividends by the company?
 
Hey JoeF -

So what is the definition of unauthorized employment? Does it include working for free as well?

Somebody is a partner at a company abroad that does nothing in the US. The partner works from time to time and recieves no compensation for this. There are no specific hours that person has to put in and no compensation per hour.

However as all partners of the company - the perso recieves dividends - this is independent of the amount of work and time the person spends on the company. Is that a problem for INS?

Even if INS alleges that this was illegal employment and the person is out of status - the person is eligible under 245i.

Since this is a grey area of the law - should the person claim it? After all even if sb recieved compensation from a company abroad it is not clear if any "crime" happened. In the event INS sends intention to deny - maybe then claim the benefit?

Once the green card is approved - can the person have any problems resulting from this in the future? If INS makes trouble can the person at that time claim 245i?
 
This is really weird. I do not feel it is fair a person should have to pay 1k to do 245i if he was a partner at a company abroad. I seriously doubt that there is 1 partner of a company in the world who is not concerned with his company, advises on strategy, thinks about the business model etc. All of this is ofcourse work.

There is also no visa to obtain permission to think about your company or work for a company outside of the US which does nothing with the US. At least if there is a US company then you can obtain a visa for some professional work.

If INS believes in unauthorized employment this way - tben virtually anybody who in the past established a business abroad would be barred from entering the US.

On top of that tourists (genuine) who work for companies abroad - when they need to finish up a draft project or sthg while they are on vacation here - they would get out of status and would potentially be barred from entering this country. After all if they have to finish up some draft (as it happens often) - they do work for their company abroad. A total mess. So all those people should remember to count their time in the US as illegal. And if they came here couple of times over a few years and stayed total over 6 months - they should get a ban for 3 years. Even bigger mess.
 
Hey JoeF -

Looks like I am getting conflicting messages. From Ron Gotcher site (he should be reliable attorney) - here is a message:

-----
I am here in the US on a H-4 visa. I intend to work for HR Block Inc as a volunteer tax consultant (without taking money for the work i do). I have a few of questions :

1) Can I work as a volunteer tax consultant without pay under H4 visa.This will give me much needed US work experience that would be useful for me to get a job when I get my EAD ( through my husband ).
2) I believe HR Block will charge customers fees for any services provided by me.Is this ok ?
3) My husband will be applying for I 140/I 485 within the next 3-6 months. Will my volunteer work affect our GC application in any way. Will we be questioned ( perhaps during a AOS interview ) about the work I did with HR Block ? If yes how can i prove to INS that i did not take any money for the services I performed.
Thanks

ANS:

While this will not be a status violation for you, it will most likely be a violation of your state's wage and hour laws for the employer.

---------------------------------------------------------

You said that it is a status violation to work for a profit company. HRBlock is a profit company obviously and Ron does not see any problems with working for free here even though the company realizes profit.

So is this person illegal if they work for HRBlock?

---------------------------------------------------------

Next message:

Ron,
I have a H1B work visa. Can I start a C corporation??
Once I start it, is it possible for me to hire US citizens as employees??
How will I receive the profits?? Can I just pay myself a manager's salary?? or will I have to receive dividends (and therefore get taxed twice)??

Thanks,
Sid

ANS:

You may start a corporation and hire employees, but you may not work for it unless you have specific permission from the INS. You may take profits as a shareholder.

---------------------------------------------

Again - you can start a corportation in the US, perform managerial duties such as hire employees, take profit as a shareholder and still not require work authorization.

This clearly implies that in order to hire employees you need to send an ad, ask somebody to write this ad or most likely do it yourself, screen candidates or at least communicate with people who screen people, think how many employees you want etc.

All of this can be done for a US corporation with no visa(!)

So one should definitely be able to do that for a foreign corporation unless I am not getting something here.

Please advise.
 
Hey JoeF -

This is a mess. I talked with 3 independent attorneys and all of them told not to file 245i if you did some work for a foreign company. It is okay for you to think about a business plan for some company abroad that does nothing here. It is okay to do conference calls with partners etc.

In fact if you file 245i in such a case INS might get confused. Why are you doing so if you are completely legal in the US? There is no need to waste 1K on such a mess.

INS is concerned only and only if you work for a US company - even if it is your company. But if the company has nothing to do with the US then okay.

You mislead me and it cost me money. Next time I will make sure to seek advice of a reliable attorney. Message boards are not a reliable source of legal advice.
 
Originally posted by JoeF
Yes, but... If you ever worked illegally, you can not use the I-485 (except for marriage cases, see above). That means you'd have to go through CP.
Click to expand...

Hi.

I just came across this thread and I was a little suprised to see this comment. The original poster suggested that this had happened 7 years ago -- is there no statute of limitations on these cases?

For the sake of argument, what if it was 20 years ago and the poster actually left the US after working out of status? Would his 485 application still be in jeopardy now that he's back in the US if he's stayed in status this time around?

If so, this seems like a pretty harsh stance, no?

ETA
 
Hey JoeF -

Can you at least give me 1 or 2 reputable attorneys who think that doing any work for company abroad (that does nothing with the US) while maintaining valid status in the US - is unauthorized employment? Is there one attorney in the US who thinks it is a grey area?

Do you have any sources?

Maybe it seems like a coincidence - but all attorneys including reputable ones like Gotcher from what I understand think it is okay to do so and it is not a grey area. I spoke with 5 attorneys and none of them said that it is a grey area.

Grey area for me is one that INS may deem to be illegal at anytime and can say all cases that fell as grey in the past were actually illegal. Do you have any sources or legal discussion that point to the fact that it is illegal?

When I run this thread by an attorney - he said to be careful about message boards as people who are laymen post. They often do not understand the law and can confuse people.

I am not trying to discredit you JoeF but since others use this message board it would be good for them to have reliable information.

I understand that if you do not reply then the grey area argument of yours would simply your interpretation of the law as a layman.

Thanks!
 
Hey JoeF -

I talked to 2 reputable lawyers who do lots of H1Bs and green cards, company lawyer and 1 more lawyer who was ok. Then I talked also with one more lawyer but he said that there is no point to meet because it is no problem.

I talked about sthg specific to my situation. So a company unrelated to US. Work that would be involved would normally be done by a tourist/business or B1.

All of them confirmed that it is okay.

All of them also said that this is not a grey area where there are no regulations.

I asked because I am eligible for 245i if push came to shove. But all of them said not to file this because this application is for people who violate the status and in this case - there was none. So even if sb is eligible for 245i they should file if they really had some violations.

I think that at this point I should abort checking more on this problem. Generally immigration to the US is anxiety provoking - there are many more places that offer better treatment and have equal opportunities. But if all lawyers say it is ok - I think I have to take their word for this.

From the posts you mentioned - people also think it is ok to work but they give some conditions:

Absolutely not. The only way an H4 can work for an FC is if FC is
totally unrelated to a USC, the work done for the FC will not be a
product or service sold or marketed in the US, and no USC will benefit
in any way from the work done for FC, AND finally, the work you do for
FC does not take advantage of your presence in the USA (i.e. you would
not be able to do the work were you not in the USA.

Looks like my case would meet the above conditions but so would a B1 case (I think?). I did not ask lawyers for specific conditions under which you can work but merely discussed my case. So those conditions above might or might not be true.

It would be interesting for other readers to learn about this issue more as I see very little discussion on this.
 
It sounds like some people in this situation might be able to benefit from 245(k) protection?

From http://www.ilw.com/lawyers/seminars/2001,1108-Answer1_9-11.shtm

"This provision offers certain nonimmigrant workers seeking to adjust status a generous forgiveness for a variety of past infractions, as long as the particular requirements of 245(k) can be satisfied. To qualify under 245(k), the applicant on the date of filing for AOS must be present in the U.S. pursuant to a lawful admission, and must not thereafter, for a period exceeding 180 days, have (a) failed to maintain continuously a lawful status; (b) engaged in unauthorized employment; or (c) otherwise violated the terms and conditions of the applicant's admission."

See also the thread I started at http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90358 for more context.

ETA
 
I do not understand the 245(k).

Is 180 days of unauthorized employment cumulative during all stays in the US or is it since the last entry?

I thought that it is cumulative during all stays in the US counting from more than 10 years ago.

Also I heard that say you have 1 day of unauthorized employment then you are out of status that day. Then say you do not engage in any unauthorized employment and leave a year later - then you are subject to a 10 year ban inspite of the fact that you maintained your status otherwise and you engaged in unauthorized employment without your knowledge (e.g: on campus you thought that you would be cleaning the cafateria but it was paid by some other company - so at the end it was off campus employment).

Otherwise section 245(k) would allow people who had unauthorized employment while maintaining some other status to just leave the US, come back, still engage in unauthorized employment for less than 180 days and still get AOS. I do not think that it works this way.
 
Hmm, I'm having trouble understanding whether 245(k) requires you to re-enter the US (in valid status) and remain in valid status

a) for at *least* 180 days *before* filing for AOS, or,
b) for at *least* 180 days *after* filing for AOS, or,
c) for at *most* 180 days *before* filing for AOS.

In my case, I've been in valid status since I entered the US 5 years ago (and I've never been out of status as far as I know, but as mentioned in the other thread I'm somewhat paranoid since I don't actually have my records from 10 years ago).

So with interpretation a), I already have 245(k) protection, with b), I will have it 180 days after filing the AOS (if I keep my nose clean) and with c), I will have to leave/re-enter the US and wait 180 days before filing the AOS.

The info at the above-mentioned link seems to suggest that a) is the correct interpretation, yet our lawyer is suggesting that I would need to exit/re-enter the US then file the AOS within 180 days which sounds like c).

Speaking from a position of complete ignorance :), c) seems to "make sense" otherwise, with a), pretty much anyone who is *currently* in the US for 180+ days and was in valid status wouldn't be immune to issues due to previous transgressions?

Thoughts/Comments?

ETA
 
Originally posted by JoeF
That's the correct interpretation.
Click to expand...

Hey JoeF.

I've found some more info on this which (apparently) seems to contradict this. See the other thread that I started for details (http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90358)

The 180 days appears to refer to aggregate days of being out of status since being admitted, and does not refer to a time limit since being admitted within which the AOS application needs to be filed.

Assuming this information is correct (potentially a huge assumption), some sites seen to indicate that time out of status prior to the latest entry date doesn't matter, at least for employment-based petitions, while other sites mention a 2nd 180 day limit on aggregate days out of status prior to the re-entry date.

ETA
 
Wow. That's a relief here.

Although all lawyers say that I never violated any status by doing some mostly unpaid work for the company abroad - just to be on the safe side - I could simply leave the US and come back, file I-485, get EAD and keep on doing what I have been doing. In fact I left 4 months ago - but I am not sure I will file AOS within the next 2 months.

JoeF's remarks about the fact that even if you publish an article for foreign magazine and that magazine somehow makes it to the US as well scare me.

Does going to Canada or Mexico reset that 245(k) clock?
 
Also maybe I do not even have to leave. Does 180 days mean - days since your last unauthorized employment or does it mean days of unauthorized employment?

So say 200 days pass but you worked 150 days. Would this mean 200 days of unauthorized employment or 150 days of unauthorized employment?
 
Originally posted by JoeF
Any travel out of US jurisdiction counts.
Click to expand...

Also, our attorney advised me to make sure I have some record of the re-entry. He suggested that asking them to stamp your passport would be sufficient. Alternatively he implied that you could turn in your I-94 when you exit and when you return show your valid I-797 approval notice plus letter from your company confirming your employment to obtain a new I-94.

i.e. as far as I know, heading up to Toronto for a day of shopping then returning to the US isn't going to count as a re-entry unless you ask them to process you somewhat at the border?

But, from what I understand, this would completely reset your 245(k) clock and you'd actually have to wait 180 days before you would qualify for 245(k) since you a) need to have been admitted under valid status b) need to be in valid status at the time that you file your AOS c) need to have 180 or fewer days of being out of status since your most recent entry.

[Note: I stupidly flipped around the 180 day "rule" in the above paragraph -- see the follow-up posts for the correct interpretation -- you only need to have *less than 180 invalid days* since your last re-entry so this doesn't mean you have to wait for 180 valid days to pass before you can do AOS.]

WARNING: I have no idea whether this is good (or even correct) advice for your specific situation (or for any situation for that matter).

I'm still trying to nail down exactly how 245(k) works but from what I now understand of the provision, I think that I'm covered since we've been here 5 years, and we've never been out of status since arriving here, and we're currently in status. As far as I know (99% certain) I've never been out of status on any prior visit, but, from what I can tell (the info I've seen on this differs), this is either irrelevant for employment-based AOS or shouldn't matter as long as this was for less than 180 aggregate days prior to entering the US.

ETA
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top