F4 category, children aged out but eligible by CSPA - no option to pay fees on CEAC

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#81
Re when you talk about your mom needing divorce and marriage certificates and asking why they don’t ask for this proof upfront - they do. it is very clearly stated on the website that deals with the immigrant visa process :

If you are married, you must obtain an original marriage certificate or certified copy.
  • Send a photocopy of your marriage certificate to NVC.
  • Bring the original marriage certificate plus a photocopy to your visa interview at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate.
If you were previously married, you must obtain evidence of the termination of EVERY prior marriage you have had. Your evidence must be an original or certified copy of one of the following documents: FINAL legal divorce decree, death certificate, or annulment papers.
  • Send a photocopy of your marriage termination document(s) to NVC.
  • Bring the original termination document(s) plus a photocopy to your visa interview at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...-nvc/step-5-collect-supporting-documents.html

So that bit is on your mother (or whoever decided they were in charge of the family case) for not following instructions.

As for CSPA and aging out, I mean the instructions also mention that but it’s totally unclear to me how NVC actually approaches this. Sometimes they take out kids who have turned 21 but are still protected by CSPA and sometimes they leave kids in who aren’t. And it’s not as clear as it should be that each family should check CSPA age for themselves before paying the fees. Unfortunately you also seem to have gotten bad advice from the lawyer, who should have told you that the consulate does not have discretion over this. The day your CSPA age reaches 21 is the day you age out. This is nothing to do with Trump and has been the case always, since they introduced it. I think maybe your lawyer doesn’t know how to calculate CSPA age so says that bs rather than giving you proper advice. So if your other cousins have aged out but are hoping for some miracle, it’s not going to happen.
 
#82
I am seeking answers for the same question. My aunt file a petition for her brother (my father) under the f4 category back in December of 2005. At the time my younger siblings were included in the application (year of birth 1987 and 1988) finally in January 2019 my father and Aunt received notice of Visa availability. My father is the principal applicant and my mother and both sibblings appear in the application as accompany. We have the option to pay for everyone and I don't know if we should pay for my sibblings since they are obviously over 21 and my sister is now married. I'm so confused because is giving us the option to pay for both my sibblings and I don't know if we should take the risk or not. Any advice will be appropriate.
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#83
I am seeking answers for the same question. My aunt file a petition for her brother (my father) under the f4 category back in December of 2005. At the time my younger siblings were included in the application (year of birth 1987 and 1988) finally in January 2019 my father and Aunt received notice of Visa availability. My father is the principal applicant and my mother and both sibblings appear in the application as accompany. We have the option to pay for everyone and I don't know if we should pay for my sibblings since they are obviously over 21 and my sister is now married. I'm so confused because is giving us the option to pay for both my sibblings and I don't know if we should take the risk or not. Any advice will be appropriate.
In order to calculate CSPA, exact dates are needed for:
1) birth dates
2) priority date of petition
3) approval date of petition (this is an I797 notice sent to the petitioner informing them that the petition has been approved)

Your married sister is ineligible regardless of age.
 
#84
I did a CSPA calculation for him and tells me that the CSPA age is 17 years and 19 days but he is ineligible for an immigrant visa as the child "must seek to aquire permanent resident within a year of Visa availability. Is telling me that approval date (06/19/2009) is the same as visa availability but my father got notice of availability on January of 2019. I'm so confused
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#85
I did a CSPA calculation for him and tells me that the CSPA age is 17 years and 19 days but he is ineligible for an immigrant visa as the child "must seek to aquire permanent resident within a year of Visa availability. Is telling me that approval date (06/19/2009) is the same as visa availability but my father got notice of availability on January of 2019. I'm so confused
The visa is available the month that the priority date is listed as current in table A of the visa bulletin.
So I still don’t have all the dates but if PD was Dec 2005 and approval June 2009, then there is approximately 3.5 years of protection under CSPA. If protected under CSPA, then the derivative must seek to acquire (usually fulfilled by submitting the DS260) within one year from the date the visa is available (and must remain unmarried all the way through entering the US).
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#86
I did a CSPA calculation for him and tells me that the CSPA age is 17 years and 19 days but he is ineligible for an immigrant visa as the child "must seek to aquire permanent resident within a year of Visa availability. Is telling me that approval date (06/19/2009) is the same as visa availability but my father got notice of availability on January of 2019. I'm so confused
I think you either did something wrong in the calculation, or the approval date you gave is wrong. If the children were born in 1987/88, their actual ages are around 31/32, with only 3.5 years of CSPA protection he can’t possibly be 17 on CSPA, more like 28.


The approval date is the date given on the i797.
The visa available date is the first day of the month that the published visa bulletin has the priority date as current (for example if your priority date became current in January 2019 - I haven’t checked that date - then the visa available date is 01/01/2019.
 
#87
I am seeking answers for the same question. My aunt file a petition for her brother (my father) under the f4 category back in December of 2005. At the time my younger siblings were included in the application (year of birth 1987 and 1988) finally in January 2019 my father and Aunt received notice of Visa availability. My father is the principal applicant and my mother and both sibblings appear in the application as accompany. We have the option to pay for everyone and I don't know if we should pay for my sibblings since they are obviously over 21 and my sister is now married. I'm so confused because is giving us the option to pay for both my sibblings and I don't know if we should take the risk or not. Any advice will be appropriate.
 
#88
I understand. So, in this case is my dad elegible to file a F2B for my sibblings? My dad will be a new green card holder, he wouldn't have a job since he is almost 70 and will be F2B category since they are over 21. I know the process takes long but it will be a good chance for them to eventually come and live in the US. Any input will be welcome
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#89
I understand. So, in this case is my dad elegible to file a F2B for my sibblings? My dad will be a new green card holder, he wouldn't have a job since he is almost 70 and will be F2B category since they are over 21. I know the process takes long but it will be a good chance for them to eventually come and live in the US. Any input will be welcome
He will be able to file F2B for your single brother, as long as he remains single all through the process. He will only be able to file for your married sister once he is a citizen, under F3. The length of time is around 7 and 13 years respectively for F2B and F3 for most countries, longer for India and Philippines. It tends to get longer over time so you should probably add a few years to each of those. So for your married sister, realistically it is probably at least 20 years after he gets a green card (5 years to citizenship plus the F3 wait).
If your dad is not working, he can use assets if he has enough (if no income will need 5x the income requirement) or he can get a co-sponsor.
 
#90
Just giving everyone an update about our family case. Our interview is scheduled July 23rd in Ankara and we just received an email from the "embassy" that lists everyone and the required documents for each person. Under my name, it says: "Status: Over 21 years of age, not eligible" "Documents and/or Actions Required: None"
So, I think that should explain a lot. Even if you're listed in the NVC email and CEAC website to pay the invoice for your DS-260, it doesn't mean someone checked your case and decided to include you in the case. It all depends on the embassy... Do the CSPA calculation and don't pay the invoice if you're overaged...
Good luck everyone! Hope you all get your green card one way or another :)
 
#91
Hi there!

I have a question about CSPA. My aunt filed F4 petition for my dad. Nationality is India.
PD: 5 Mar 2005
I-130 Approval date: 1 Apr 2009
Visa Bulletin became current in June 2019. We are in the process of submitting the required documents to NVC.
My date of birth is 13 Apr 1997, over 21 years now.

Am I covered under the same petition considering CSPA?

Thank you,
 
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SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#92
So
(1) your PD was not actually current in June, it was just the “dates for filing” table that is (I presume you are all still in india). F4 for India as at August 2019 is only current till September 2004. It could be another 6 months to a year before your actual PD is current.
But
(2) that should not be a problem for you. Your current CSPA age is around 18 years 2 months, so you’d still be protected under CSPA for another 2 years, 9 months and some days. Your priority date should be current comfortably before then.
 
#93
Hey guys,
So my aunt filed f4 for my mom who is her sister. Nationality is Jamaican.The priority date is May 02,2007. I-797 was apporved March 24,2010. I will be 21 this November-D.O.B is 11/9/1998. The priority date is not yet current but based on this information,what would your prediction be?Do you think I would be eligible to accompany my mom if the priority date becomes current after my 21 birthday?
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#94
Hey guys,
So my aunt filed f4 for my mom who is her sister. Nationality is Jamaican.The priority date is May 02,2007. I-797 was apporved March 24,2010. I will be 21 this November-D.O.B is 11/9/1998. The priority date is not yet current but based on this information,what would your prediction be?Do you think I would be eligible to accompany my mom if the priority date becomes current after my 21 birthday?
Assuming your birthday is Nov 9 (not 11 Sept) your CSPA age is currently just over 17 years 10 months. You will be protected if your priority date gets current before September 2022; with the applicable F4 PD for you currently being October 2006, this looks highly likely to happen long before you would age out.
 
#95
Assuming your birthday is Nov 9 (not 11 Sept) your CSPA age is currently just over 17 years 10 months. You will be protected if your priority date gets current before September 2022; with the applicable F4 PD for you currently being October 2006, this looks highly likely to happen long before you would age out.
Ok thank you very much,Yes my birthday would be November...Another question,is there anything I should do in order to be apart of the CSPA?Is there anyone I should notify for eg NVC?
 
#96
Assuming your birthday is Nov 9 (not 11 Sept) your CSPA age is currently just over 17 years 10 months. You will be protected if your priority date gets current before September 2022; with the applicable F4 PD for you currently being October 2006, this looks highly likely to happen long before you would age out.
Hi,
My paternal uncle applied for my father who is an indian in F4 category, priority date is 06 october 2005. My birth date is 25 December 1996, so i was 9 years old at that time. I dont really know the date of approval and want to ask is it the same as the date in the case number and we also got a letter from nvc (attached below) during that time.so i guess it is 23 october 2009 and as most indian people in this discussion with priority date in 2005 got their application approved in 2009. The case number is three alphabets followed by xxx174. The priority date is not yet current but i think it will be in the next year. I am going to be 23 years old this December, so will i be able to accompany my father according to my CSPA age? And if i am wrong which is the date of approval and what is my cspa age now? In how much time our priority date needs to be current before my cspa age crosses 21? SmartSelect_20190804-153050_Gallery.jpg
 
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SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#97
@JugrajbirS , first, please ask a moderator to edit your post to take out identifying information (the exact case number - all immigrant visas have the same 3 letters for India so that is not hiding anything - and the name on the letter).
So without exact approval date you can approximate, yes you are correct a 2009 case number means it was approved in 2009. Cannot give exact ages without exact approval date though. With a PD in 2005, that gives you approximately 4 years of CSPA protection, so you should be ok til approx age 25. Assuming your assumption of approval date 23 Oct 2009 is correct, your current CSPA age is 18 years 6 months 20 days. Remember your CSPA age needs to be under 21, and you need to remain unmarried, in order to benefit as a derivative.
 
#98
@JugrajbirS , first, please ask a moderator to edit your post to take out identifying information (the exact case number - all immigrant visas have the same 3 letters for India so that is not hiding anything - and the name on the letter).
So without exact approval date you can approximate, yes you are correct a 2009 case number means it was approved in 2009. Cannot give exact ages without exact approval date though. With a PD in 2005, that gives you approximately 4 years of CSPA protection, so you should be ok til approx age 25. Assuming your assumption of approval date 23 Oct 2009 is correct, your current CSPA age is 18 years 6 months 20 days. Remember your CSPA age needs to be under 21, and you need to remain unmarried, in order to benefit as a derivative.
I have another question, i read it in news that in one case US supreme court ruled that the CSPA calculation only applies if the biologically aged out person is the principal beneficiary (like when a US residents applies for their unmarried children who are below the age of 21 during petitioning), and not to the derivative beneficiary like in F4 category. Does it not affect the derivative beneficiaries of f4 categories?
 
#99
T
@JugrajbirS , first, please ask a moderator to edit your post to take out identifying information (the exact case number - all immigrant visas have the same 3 letters for India so that is not hiding anything - and the name on the letter).
So without exact approval date you can approximate, yes you are correct a 2009 case number means it was approved in 2009. Cannot give exact ages without exact approval date though. With a PD in 2005, that gives you approximately 4 years of CSPA protection, so you should be ok til approx age 25. Assuming your assumption of approval date 23 Oct 2009 is correct, your current CSPA age is 18 years 6 months 20 days. Remember your CSPA age needs to be under 21, and you need to remain unmarried, in order to benefit as a derivative.
The supreme court judgement is as follow Screenshot_20190805-151012_Chrome.jpg
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
I have another question, i read it in news that in one case US supreme court ruled that the CSPA calculation only applies if the biologically aged out person is the principal beneficiary (like when a US residents applies for their unmarried children who are below the age of 21 during petitioning), and not to the derivative beneficiary like in F4 category. Does it not affect the derivative beneficiaries of f4 categories?
I don’t know about that decision but it’s not how it works in practice. (You only put a summary of the decision with no proper context so it might be misleading anyway in terms of what it means.) Derivatives are protected, within the guidelines. They can still age out if their CSPA age reaches 21.
https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/child-status-protection-act
 
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