EB2 - BS + 5yrs is excessive, is it?

N

nxm

Registered Users (C)
Hello,

I have recently found out that there are LCs being rejected based on the fact that the job requirements were Bachelor + 5 years for a Senior Programmer Analyst.

My lawyer told me that there have been some filing of PERM (by other lawyers) where the job requirements were BS+5 years but DOL rejected those cases saying that the requirements were excessive for Sr. Programmer Analyst. DOL looks up the job title and requirements in their ONET job guide or something. Does anybody have any idea whether this is true or anybody has heard of it before?

What I also found out that there are many Sr. Programmer Analyst, Sr. System Analyst and other similar jobs which required BS+5 years and thay were all certified eventually. Have a look at this link,
http://www.usavisanow.com/perm-apps.html

Appreciate all the help.
 
Nobody has any feedback

Come on guys, give atleast some feedback to the above questions. Thanks
 

For EB2 category, the case should be filed requesting a Master's degree plus 1 (up to 3) years of experience with the alternative requirements being a bachelor's degree + 5 years progressive experience in lieu of required education and experience.
The title we usually use for the EB2 cases is "Software Engineer." Although, we have filed some with the "Sr. Systems Analyst," and have had no problems.


nxm said:
Hello,

I have recently found out that there are LCs being rejected based on the fact that the job requirements were Bachelor + 5 years for a Senior Programmer Analyst.

My lawyer told me that there have been some filing of PERM (by other lawyers) where the job requirements were BS+5 years but DOL rejected those cases saying that the requirements were excessive for Sr. Programmer Analyst. DOL looks up the job title and requirements in their ONET job guide or something. Does anybody have any idea whether this is true or anybody has heard of it before?

What I also found out that there are many Sr. Programmer Analyst, Sr. System Analyst and other similar jobs which required BS+5 years and thay were all certified eventually. Have a look at this link,
http://www.usavisanow.com/perm-apps.html

Appreciate all the help.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the response.

Does that mean that one cannot file LC for EB2 if the requirements do not ask for Masters and only require BS+5?

Company I work for do not require MS for Sr. Systems Analyst/Sr. Programmer Analyst but only require BS+5, so I think if I put BS+5 as requirements it will go in EB3 since it does not require MS.

Thanks.
 
BS+5 not easy

Yeh, I heard that NSC hesitates to approve EB2 with BS+5 only.

st4rguitar.. what do you mean EB2 only with MS+1/BS+5? what about MS+0/BS+5? Is that difficult for EB2 in PERM or I140 stage?
 
unitednations said:
EB2 requirements are: Bachelors plus five or Masters.

Labor can have Bachelors plus five.
Labor can have Masters plus 0

Correct, however, be aware that if your company receives an audit, you should absolutely be prepared to show that none of the applicants qualified for the position. Some DOL Officers (with good reason) think it's fishy that the company, with all the recruitment efforts, wouldn't be able to find someone with just a master's degree to fill the position.

Or labor can require either one of them.

If labor has two education/experience requirements then both have to meet advance degree definitiion (bs+5 or MS). If one req. is MS and second req. is BS+4. USCIS won't consider it an EB2 labor.

Also, in perm if you have designed the labor so that it would fit eb2 requirement but add the note "any suitable combination of training, education, experience is acceptable" would be at risk of denial in eb2 if case goes to Nebraska.

nebraska has said that this sentence allows for les then BS+5 or MS and thus is not qualified for eb2.

We had this issue arise at the I-140 and subsequently the case was approved after a response to an RFE. The RFE indicated that since the language was found in H.8, THAT was the issue; now, if that any suitable language is included in H.14 and not in H.8, we have had no problems with that.
Click to expand...
 
Appreciate all the help

Thanks everybody for your responses.

I have more than 5 years experience and I am working as a Sr. Prog. Analyst but my company’s lawyer thinks its excessive to ask for BS+5 and guarantees that the case will be denied or at least it will be audited. My company is fairly big size with 15000+ employees but the HR is very fearful of getting audited. So they have decided against my utmost struggle to file under EB3. I will go under EB3-World category so there is still a huge wait of at least 4-5 years. This is the reality and I will have to face it. However I do have a choice of leaving the company after I-140 approval. This way I will atleast keep the PD. But I really like my company and the work I do.

I guess there are both pros and cons for working for a big organization. Everybody knows it and you have good prospects for growth but at the same time you just cannot convince the HR to include what you want in the job requirements.

I appreciate all you help and feedback.
Thanks
 
Sound's like your lawyer has no clue what the heck he/she is doing. We have hundreds of B+5 cases that are approved with no issues.
Sorry that you have to go under EB3... that sucks.


nxm said:
Thanks everybody for your responses.

I have more than 5 years experience and I am working as a Sr. Prog. Analyst but my company’s lawyer thinks its excessive to ask for BS+5 and guarantees that the case will be denied or at least it will be audited. My company is fairly big size with 15000+ employees but the HR is very fearful of getting audited. So they have decided against my utmost struggle to file under EB3. I will go under EB3-World category so there is still a huge wait of at least 4-5 years. This is the reality and I will have to face it. However I do have a choice of leaving the company after I-140 approval. This way I will atleast keep the PD. But I really like my company and the work I do.

I guess there are both pros and cons for working for a big organization. Everybody knows it and you have good prospects for growth but at the same time you just cannot convince the HR to include what you want in the job requirements.

I appreciate all you help and feedback.
Thanks
Click to expand...
 
The "pure" way? You're joking, right?
The B+5 is supposed to be an alternative requirement to the master's + 1to3 yrs. anyway. We have a lot of companies that will only accept someone with a master's degree. Not every company is willing to accept "just anyone" with a Java certificate off the street.
Although, I did enjoy the philosophical ramblings about the "one day" estimations.


unitednations said:
There are some lawyers who want to do it the pure way.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that the MINIMUM requirements for an IT job is Bachelors plus five or Masters. the minimum requirements in real world for these job are really entry level requirements. Unless someone makes it very tailored to the individual person who wants greencard.

One day it will filter from permanent job requirements to temporary job requirements.

When people complete H-1b they choose level 1 wage which is entry. They are saying that is the requirements for the job. However, to turn around and say the actual minimum requirements for the permanent job is higher then someone doing the temporary job doesn't jive together.

Only reason people do bs+5 or masters is to accelerate greencard not because the actual minimum requirements are bs+5 or masters.
Click to expand...
 
@tsc

UN, Will this combination sail thru in EB2 at TSC?

unitednations said:
Also, in perm if you have designed the labor so that it would fit eb2 requirement but add the note "any suitable combination of training, education, experience is acceptable" would be at risk of denial in eb2 if case goes to Nebraska.

nebraska has said that this sentence allows for les then BS+5 or MS and thus is not qualified for eb2.
Click to expand...
 
unitednations said:
Yeah, right.
If that was the case then DOL wouldn't have assessed the IT Manager is the only position that could require more then Bachelors plus four years of experience.
Click to expand...


And you found that information where ? From underneath a rock ? Along with most of your uninformed opinions one would imagine.
Anyway, you're evading the point, which is that the Bach + 5 IS AN ALTERNATIVE REQUIREMENT. You don't list it as the main requirement, and I never indicated that you were supposed to do so.

And if that's the case, then why are 'Software Engineers' with EB2 cases getting approved?
unitednations said:
You didn't finish the other discussion where in the perm rules it says you need the prevailing wage in the job order.
Click to expand...

How old are you -- twelve? Oh, I'm sorry, maybe our firm decided to do it the "pure way" . So much for your instincts.

Per the head attorney in our firm, the whole point of the job bank posting is to notify U.S. workers of the position available. If you do not give them the entire package of what the salary is for the position, you are not really giving U.S. workers the full ideas of the job. Hence, tailoring to your target audience. Hmm, well, now that sure doesn't sound like grounds for a denial, does it? Oh wait. I'm sorry, I just 'conveniently' left out the fact that the PW is over $100,000 for this Business Development Director position. And I wonder if THAT would have any effect on the number of applicants.

In essence, the "duh" factor.

And, by the way, you didn't prove your point that it was "NOT" required to be on there yourself. Don't bother replying to any of my posts anymore. I won't be wasting my time justifying my and my firm's opinions to someone so obviously and incredibly ignorant.

Gosh... it's like you took lessons at ballet and automatically assume you can become a synchronized swimmer.

 
st4rguitar,

just out of plain curiosity (not that I am in position to have an opinion how a job order should look like). In caljobs.ca.gov there are 64 ads for electrical engineers as of today. Only 10 of them mention salary. Does that mean:

a) the ones with salaries are for sure PERM ads?

b) I am not looking at what I should be looking at?
 
I agree with unitednations. frankly someone should ban this female dog - she's has posted a ton of incorrect information here, and the bad thing is that she personally attacks people here...what a low life scum
 
"EB2 requirements are: Bachelors plus five or Masters.

Labor can have Bachelors plus five.
Labor can have Masters plus 0

Or labor can require either one of them.

If labor has two education/experience requirements then both have to meet advance degree definitiion (bs+5 or MS). If one req. is MS and second req. is BS+4. USCIS won't consider it an EB2 labor.

Also, in perm if you have designed the labor so that it would fit eb2 requirement but add the note "any suitable combination of training, education, experience is acceptable" would be at risk of denial in eb2 if case goes to Nebraska.

nebraska has said that this sentence allows for les then BS+5 or MS and thus is not qualified for eb2.
__________________
ny.united@gmail.com "

question - with respect to the last two paragraphs, where does the phrase or question "any suitable combination....." occur on the PERM form?
I am a little worried bout mine as mine is filed as premium at nebraska
 
Thanks!

MY PERM basically specified BS +5 as an alternate level of education (boxes 8 , 8A and 8C) and Ms + 3 (Box 4, 6 and 6A) as the min requirement
my attorney left box h14 blank so i guess i am in good shape, correct?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
so who do work for stgt444rtr? if your views here represent your law firm, we should all avoid your law firm at all costs. frankly, you messed up big time on my question regarding H1B extensions, and your attitude sucks


Quote:
Originally Posted by unitednations
Yeah, right.
If that was the case then DOL wouldn't have assessed the IT Manager is the only position that could require more then Bachelors plus four years of experience.


And you found that information where ? From underneath a rock ? Along with most of your uninformed opinions one would imagine.
Anyway, you're evading the point, which is that the Bach + 5 IS AN ALTERNATIVE REQUIREMENT. You don't list it as the main requirement, and I never indicated that you were supposed to do so.

And if that's the case, then why are 'Software Engineers' with EB2 cases getting approved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitednations
You didn't finish the other discussion where in the perm rules it says you need the prevailing wage in the job order.

How old are you -- twelve? Oh, I'm sorry, maybe our firm decided to do it the "pure way" . So much for your instincts.

Per the head attorney in our firm, the whole point of the job bank posting is to notify U.S. workers of the position available. If you do not give them the entire package of what the salary is for the position, you are not really giving U.S. workers the full ideas of the job. Hence, tailoring to your target audience. Hmm, well, now that sure doesn't sound like grounds for a denial, does it? Oh wait. I'm sorry, I just 'conveniently' left out the fact that the PW is over $100,000 for this Business Development Director position. And I wonder if THAT would have any effect on the number of applicants.

In essence, the "duh" factor.

And, by the way, you didn't prove your point that it was "NOT" required to be on there yourself. Don't bother replying to any of my posts anymore. I won't be wasting my time justifying my and my firm's opinions to someone so obviously and incredibly ignorant.

Gosh... it's like you took lessons at ballet and automatically assume you can become a synchronized swimmer.
 
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