EB1 vs. NIW and Reference letters

A

archilles

Registered Users (C)
Hi Guys,

I have a PhD from a US university. 6 articles in top journals. About 10 total citations upto now. I have 2 nice awards which uses the word "outstanding" in the title. I have some conference proceedings and presentations as well. BTW my PhD is in a Physical Science. I am currenlty working as a private consultant. I bellieve I am eligible both for EB1 and NIW (talk now if you have an objection :) ). Do you agree with me? BTW, some people claim that with EB1 someone has better chance. Is he right?

Anyway, I consider hiring a lawyer. I believe it is safer and I would have more chance. Am I wrong? Anyway, my major concern is about reference letters. I am sure I can get some good one. However I do not believe that somebody who cited my paper would be extremely desiring to write a reference letter for you. C'mon, afterall it is a citation. I have cited many papers I even do not remember the title and author anymore. I believe my research is\was important for the nation. However, I believe every tiny research has some importance. If it is really important then you usually get awarded the Nobel prize or so. So, let's be honest guys, there are so many reearch going on out there in thousands of universities that nobody really cares what someoneother does or did. So, let's cut the bullshit and talk the truth about the reference letters. Where and how we can get it? C'mon how someone who don't know you much but maybe know your work little bit would write wonderful reference letter for you where he/she will claim that you are the best in the field and America would loose a lot if she doesn't give you a GC etc. It does not sound logical. I need some real strategy to collect reference letters. So, please share it if you have/had one. I would be pleased to read your story about collecting ref. letters.

thanks guys
 
I sent about 12 letters for my EB1EA petition. One from Asia, Two from Europe, the rest were from US. I already knew most of them (through conferences, or other professional activities). Five of them were also people who I directly worked with. One was from somebody I had never met. But i asked him because he was doing similar research and cited my work in his publications. I just sent an email and he kindly agreed to write a letter. It wasn't too difficult to get a good letter from him because he truely thought i was one of the leading researchers in the field. I think people who are doing similar work to yours are aware of your work. So they should remember you if you explain why you know of them.
 
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well, you know that not only leading researchers or scientist get GC through NIW or EB1. I read stories about people who got it even they did not have a journal article in a good journal, or even their paper did not cited even once etc. I read stories about PhD students not even graduates yet, getting approvals for NIW although they did not become a leader in their field. If you are a real leader, and published a pioneer paper in "Science" or "Nature" and your articel published in "Science" or "Nature" has been cited 500 to 1000 times, than you do not even need a strong reference letter, beacuse your name would be enough. Anyway, such people do not spend time in forums, they just go and apply and get their GC's.

Afterall, I am not that top researcher. However, I believe I am good enough to get an approval for example for NIW if prepared well. This is why ref. letters are important for me. It is good to start to hear some real solutions for people. I appreciate your response "dubliner". I definetely will try to contact people who cited my work, although they may not think my work will change the world one day. Any other ideas?? Anybody???
 
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You have a bight chance for both NIW and EB1. You should get reference letters from your peers. By peers i mean people who are doing similar kind of letters in your field. These would be the people who can better understand and appreciate the importance of you published work in view of National intrest. Get letters from NIH, FDA top scientists who work in your field or related field who can write extremely good letters for you. These top guys should also say and how your presence and work affects their research/line-of work. If you worked as a reviewer you should also get letters from the journal editor saying that you are leader in the filed and jounral only get work reviewed from the best scientists in the field. Get letters from international scientists in your filed giving great importace to you work and how is affect their work. You have to sell the idea of importance on your work in he nation intrest hence you should get extremely outstanding letters. I think your lawyer should be able to bring out great words from all your existing acheivements.

When I approached Scinetists... they were people who either collaborated with me or my boss in my filed who had read and heavily cited my work...there were independent NIH scientist who never met me but were aware of importance of my work whic had directly influenced there research work. Some journal editors had requested me to directly review work of my peers since they thought I would be one of the best in their field. Bottom line I got letters from letters from Scientist in Europe and USA who had readmy work and had cited my work frequently in there research papers and reviews. There were many NIH and FDA scientist who were please to send me there letters. Total tally of lettters with my by the time it got approved was 26.

I hope this suggestion is helpful for you to get letters...
 
NIW-Nov 04 said:
You have a bight chance for both NIW and EB1. You should get reference letters from your peers. By peers i mean people who are doing similar kind of letters in your field. These would be the people who can better understand and appreciate the importance of you published work in view of National intrest. Get letters from NIH, FDA top scientists who work in your field or related field who can write extremely good letters for you. These top guys should also say and how your presence and work affects their research/line-of work. If you worked as a reviewer you should also get letters from the journal editor saying that you are leader in the filed and jounral only get work reviewed from the best scientists in the field. Get letters from international scientists in your filed giving great importace to you work and how is affect their work. You have to sell the idea of importance on your work in he nation intrest hence you should get extremely outstanding letters. I think your lawyer should be able to bring out great words from all your existing acheivements.

When I approached Scinetists... they were people who either collaborated with me or my boss in my filed who had read and heavily cited my work...there were independent NIH scientist who never met me but were aware of importance of my work whic had directly influenced there research work. Some journal editors had requested me to directly review work of my peers since they thought I would be one of the best in their field. Bottom line I got letters from letters from Scientist in Europe and USA who had readmy work and had cited my work frequently in there research papers and reviews. There were many NIH and FDA scientist who were please to send me there letters. Total tally of lettters with my by the time it got approved was 26.

I hope this suggestion is helpful for you to get letters...
Click to expand...

It sounds like you had a real strong case.
I published in top journals about 6 papers and cited about 15-20 times (some of them self-citation or cited by the group I was working in a later journal article somehow related to the earlier one, BTW does CIS like self-citation if it is in another journal article). I would not call 15-20 times cited, heavily cited, I guess CIS either, right? I think my strongest point is that all my articles are in top journals recognized world-wide and ranked in top 10 by ISI Webknowledge (one of them is ranked as second best journal in the field if it makes anydifference). If this is not enough a strong point, I better forget NIW or EB1. I have two awards one is a scholarship distributed worldwide by an international science society and the other more like regional award but a good one.
ANy recommendation for a good lawyer who can make things happen?
 
You are absolutely right 15-20 citations are very less and does not sound heavy at all. Self citations should be removed. CIS is very sensetive to self-citations. Yes, you are correct to assess the strength of publication as top 10 by ISI, your letters writers should stress on the fact that you published important work in very good journal in the field. Only problem is for CIS to understand that they were very good publications is that you have to show they were cited multiple times. Generally, CIS beleives that publications that are important should be cited multiples times. Both of your scholarships/award are good for use in your case. For NIW third point of NYSDOT is important.

I think your success would not depend on how good your case is prepared. I would go for lawyer who is good and charges less money but still does a good job. Since you are a researcher you can suggest your lawyer to include/exclude important points in your case.

If you apply for Eb1-OR then you would definitely succeed. NIW and Eb1-EA is a also a good chance, if case prepared good.
 
NIW-Nov 04 said:
You are absolutely right 15-20 citations are very less and does not sound heavy at all. Self citations should be removed. CIS is very sensetive to self-citations. Yes, you are correct to assess the strength of publication as top 10 by ISI, your letters writers should stress on the fact that you published important work in very good journal in the field. Only problem is for CIS to understand that they were very good publications is that you have to show they were cited multiple times. Generally, CIS beleives that publications that are important should be cited multiples times. Both of your scholarships/award are good for use in your case. For NIW third point of NYSDOT is important.

I think your success would not depend on how good your case is prepared. I would go for lawyer who is good and charges less money but still does a good job. Since you are a researcher you can suggest your lawyer to include/exclude important points in your case.

If you apply for Eb1-OR then you would definitely succeed. NIW and Eb1-EA is a also a good chance, if case prepared good.
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That's my point indeed. I don't think I have a very strong case. However, I read success stories achieved in weaker cases. For example, I know PhD graduates with one journal articel published but received GC NIW. Maybe some people or messages in some forums are lying about their cases. Believe me, if my paper would have 200 times cited in a year or two, I wouldn't be thinking about how to make my case stronger.

I heart the existence of lawyers who evaluate your case and accept it with money back guarantee. I heart they charge a lot but accept cases only if they believe in it. Anybody knows some lawyer like that? Please post or PM.
 
gc

Hi Archilles,

There is no need to be a hardliner--seem to be a hardliner for no reason.
I have met some really good people on this post. And they are all helpful.
Which itself is a great thing. Cause we are all in the same boat. So dont do this scientist thing. If you really want to know the only two "REAL" scientists in this world have been Newton and Einstein. Everyone else is doing derivative work.

rr-green
 
rr_green said:
Hi Archilles,

There is no need to be a hardliner--seem to be a hardliner for no reason.
I have met some really good people on this post. And they are all helpful.
Which itself is a great thing. Cause we are all in the same boat. So dont do this scientist thing. If you really want to know the only two "REAL" scientists in this world have been Newton and Einstein. Everyone else is doing derivative work.

rr-green
Click to expand...


Well, I am not a conservative. My only intention is to get some opinion from the occupants of this forum. On the way to GC through NIW or EB1, being a dreamer is much worse than being a hardliner. The success story of someone with hundreds of cited work and Nobel prize would not help me and, I guess, to many people here a lot. My goal is to reach to people with more normal qualifications who had a success story. Since I started this thread I conceived two candidates for reference letters. That's help. I would not get angry on anybody who would claim that I have not much chance for da da reason but would increase my chance by da da da. Meanwhile if someother would prove that only people who are one step below Nirvana level actually get GC thorugh NIW or EB1, I would not be suprised too much either. Anyway, I like this forum and expect to get more help, opinions etc...
 
Dear Archilles,
Two suggestions that you may want to consider:
1. Hire a good immigration attorney or at least talk to an attorney to give a critical review of your case. Many law firms charges minimally or on some occasions do initial evaluations at no cost to you with no further obligations. It is better to get their opinion than others. People in this forum can share their experiences and perhaps give you pointers but they may not be definately say that your case will be approved. Even your attorney won't be able to guarantee success.
Remember that each case is different. The success of your case does not depend on one criteria alone. Your responsibility (for EB1A or NIW) is to proof that you qualify at least three criterions set forth by Congress and USCIS will play the red team to see whether you really satisfy these requiremenets and to verify your claims. Having xx number of publications or excellent reference letters alone do not guarantee the success of your application. If you read AAO decisions on the USCIS website, you will find petitions filed by a researcher with more than 20 high quality journal publications and a major league baseball player who earns at least $1.4 million per year salary have been denied. The key is that you need to show the impact of your work. This is the purpose of the reference letters and also the number of citations of your published papers.
2. Think positively of your accomplishments. If you are not confident, it is more difficult to convince others that your accomplishments are great. Many people participate in this forum to get further information and to track their case based on some real data (experience by others). It is false to assume their qualifications are only marginal.
 
BTW, when you ask for a reference letter, do you normally mention about your intention to file NIW or EB1 and ask for extra help for it because of upcoming GC application?? I wonder what kind of reaction would it cause in the person you request letter from.
 
Of course, you letter should not be generic or read such as To Whom It May Concern. It should be addressed to USCIS. Hence the writer knows that he/she is writing a letter in support of your petition. People will hesitate to write strong letters if they do not for what you want to use them.
Out of the seven to eight letters that you want to collect, at least 3 to 4 could be from your college professors, your current and former bosses. But their remarks may weigh less compared to those from independent reviewers. However, remember that these group of people can say some specific details about you which you cannot expect from an independent reviewer who may only know you from your work. Reference letters with different flavors are always good. You should not give impression to the officer that you wrote a draft to the writer or the write merely know about you after looking at your CV. Many people get RFE on this as well. Too many letters may sometimes harm you as well as the content of the letter will bear the same message, and can sometimes be annoying to the readers. I have seen many professors prefer to write their letters on their own, and therefore you are guranteed to get letters that sound very different.
 
out of blue topic,

sorry, but I am postinf here as I found that this thread is still active and getting responses from members. I am new to this forum. I am planning to file I-140 under EB1-EA category (I am not mentioning my qualifications as it is irrelevant to the question I am asking). I recently got married here in USA but I will use term 'engaged' as in INS record I am still single. Currently I am on H1B and prior to that I was on F1 (as single). My question is that
do I have to provide some proof of my marriage like marriage certificate (which I dont have at present) before putting my spuse name as depedent in my I-140 petition. My spouse is also in the same situation means she was on F1 single and now H1B. Please do not be judgemental, but is it possible to avoid this 'marriage documentation" before filing I-140. When the INS will REQUIRE me to present this proof. Thank you all for answering.
 
withouit encouraging anything you are doing...FYI Marriage proofs will not be required till u file I-485.I-140 don't need spouse info!!!!
 
tomy19192001,
If your "marriage" is not legal, you can call whatever you wish regarding your union with your partner. No one really cares, except that you have to answer a query whether you intend to practice polygamy in your I-485 petition. Also marriage does not come into picture when applying I-140.
 
PhD is a qualification to apply under Eb1 or NIW. Having a PhD doesn't guarantee you GC. Its only a gate to enter into GC application. CIS has requirements to assess your achievements. 6 articles is OK and enough I believe. Citations is not enough to my taste. CIS never question your qualifications to enter into advanced research. They assess your ablities as a researcher by reaction of the research community, ie, by citations. CIS hate self-citations. Number of citation is not enough to apply under EB1. But, you may be lucky sometime to get approval. So you can try.

I have 2 nice awards which uses the word "outstanding" in the title: The awards title as outstanding doesnot guarantee you to qualify. CIS evaluate awards based on selection criteria, how many applied, how many got the same award, same time and whether the award is national or international standard. If the award is by the same employer, forgot about it. CIS doesnot give any credit to it. If the award is by another organisation, you have to prove that organisation is national or international in standard and the selection is based on outstanding achievement in the filed. Otherwise, CIS can gave tough RFE with your awards.


Letters are also important.
 
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