DV selectee university student but NO high school degree

[MichaelLH]

hi guys,
I'm sorry if this has been discussed before.
Here is the situation: I found out in May that I've been selected for further processing. A dream that soon turned into a nightmare and countless sleepless nights on the Internet trying to get prepared. If you're reading this, you must know what I'm talking about...
I am French and was assigned a pretty decent EU case number. I'm expecting an interview in May if everything goes according to previous years (I'm EU29xxx).
My highest level of education is SOME UNIVERSITY COURSES.
the problem is that I enrolled university thanks to some sort of a GED. (French name is DAEU)
I thought I would meet the requirements by proving that I have a university level. A university level is, by definition, higher than a highschool education.
I am almost sure my DAEU won't be eligible.. I know the requirements are high school degree or its equivalent, but I also know that equivalency degrees such as the GED are not eligible. (what do they mean by "or its equivalent" by the way? If they won't accept equivalency degrees). Now here is my question: the day of my interview, I will not be able to bring a copy of my high school degree (because I don't have any) but I will bring a copy of my university transcripts and my university certificates, which will prove that I successfully passed 3/4 of a bachelor's degree.
What do you guys think? It seems that all they want to see is a highschool degree thus making it not only the minimum requirement but pretty much the only requirement.

thanks for you help.

Michael

 

[SusieQQQ]

If you can afford to take a gamble for the visa, do so, but I would think there is a greater than 50% chance of rejection, especially as you don't have a higher qualification (completed degree) to even argue over...

 

[MichaelLH]

If you can afford to take a gamble for the visa, do so, but I would think there is a greater than 50% chance of rejection, especially as you don't have a higher qualification (completed degree) to even argue

Hi Susie. Thanks for your answer.

The following is written on travel.state.gov :

High School Education: A high school education means successful completion of a formal course of elementary and secondary education comparable to completion of a 12-year course in the United States.

I understand that this makes me not eligible.

BUT

Under "preparing supporting documents":

Education: Submit to the U.S. Embassy or Consulate at your interview, a certificate of completion equivalent to a U.S. diploma, school transcripts, or other evidence issued by the person or organization responsible for maintaining records, which specifies the completed course of study. The diversity visa selectee must have completed a 12-year course of elementary and secondary education in the U.S. or a comparable course of study in another country, sufficient in itself to qualify a student to apply for college admission. The following are not acceptable:
-Equivalency certificates such as the G.E.D. are not acceptable
-Vocational degrees that are not considered a basis for further academic study will not be considered equivalent to U.S. High school education.

If I unsdertand well, what they actually want is for us to prove that we could enroll college in the US. And I could.

I will go the my interview no matter what, and keep my fingers crossed. I am extremely anxious, but hoping for the best.

thanks again,
Michael

 

[SusieQQQ]

It's really going to be the discretion of the CO. This is one area that people have reported variously being asked for only their highest education proof, only their high school certificate despite one or more university degrees, or (as in my case) copies of every diploma and degree I ever got.
Take the guidance, take the FAM notes, and be prepared to argue your case. What you will need to show is that what you already have is by itself, without anything else further to be completed, is enough to get you into a US college. Saying it's obvious won't be enough - you will need proof that it is.
Good luck!

 

[Britsimon]

hi guys,
I'm sorry if this has been discussed before.
Here is the situation: I found out in May that I've been selected for further processing. A dream that soon turned into a nightmare and countless sleepless nights on the Internet trying to get prepared. If you're reading this, you must know what I'm talking about...
I am French and was assigned a pretty decent EU case number. I'm expecting an interview in May if everything goes according to previous years (I'm EU29xxx).
My highest level of education is SOME UNIVERSITY COURSES.
the problem is that I enrolled university thanks to some sort of a GED. (French name is DAEU)
I thought I would meet the requirements by proving that I have a university level. A university level is, by definition, higher than a highschool education.
I am almost sure my DAEU won't be eligible.. I know the requirements are high school degree or its equivalent, but I also know that equivalency degrees such as the GED are not eligible. (what do they mean by "or its equivalent" by the way? If they won't accept equivalency degrees). Now here is my question: the day of my interview, I will not be able to bring a copy of my high school degree (because I don't have any) but I will bring a copy of my university transcripts and my university certificates, which will prove that I successfully passed 3/4 of a bachelor's degree.
What do you guys think? It seems that all they want to see is a highschool degree thus making it not only the minimum requirement but pretty much the only requirement.

thanks for you help.

Michael

You say "A university level is, by definition, higher than a highschool education.". No it isn't. Being enrolled in university but not having completed it is meaningless. Anyone can enroll in a degree course - passing it is entirely different. Having 3/4 of a bachelors degree will make no difference at all. In fact, and this may surprise you, even a completed Bachelors degree would not guarantee you will pass your DV interview. There are some people that show a Higher level degree pass and they are approved, but there are others that show their higher level degrees and are still asked to provide proof that they met a lower level requirement. Why - well because the rule is not what you think it is.

The instructions describe the requirement thus:
 a high school education or its equivalent, defined as successful completion of a 12-year course of elementary and secondary education;

Not a high school degree. Not just attending school for 12 years. It is "successful completion of a 12-year course of elementary and secondary education".

IN USA terms it would mean "graduating from High school". That is the point at which a person has completed their US High school, taken final exams and "graduates". It is the point at which they can enter a US university. IN the USA that is typically achieved at around 18 years old and it is usually achieved after 12 years of attendance of elementary and secondary schooling. Kindergarten or pre-K levels don't count. That is pre elementary.

GED is a way that someone who did not graduate High School can prove they have the skills needed for entry into University (termed college in the USA). The GED is not regarded as equivalent for immigration purposes. Vocational training is also excluded.

Now the standard is standardised to each country for their education system. At what point could someone from your country enter a university without something like the GED.

Perhaps you should explain why you have to take the DAEU.

 

[durbin]

In my case I don't have proof of 12yr study (Primary + Secondary Education) , but do have work references.
I'll take a risk and see if they accept my work references.

Regrds
Dharmin

 

[Britsimon]

In my case I don't have proof of 12yr study (Primary + Secondary Education) , but do have work references.
I'll take a risk and see if they accept my work references.

Regrds
Dharmin

Sorry Dharmin, I can't remember if we have discussed your case before. Qualifying on work experience takes proper preparation - you need to prepare a case. Have you checked your work against O*Net? Is it a qualifying job?

 

[durbin]

hi..

Sorry Dharmin, I can't remember if we have discussed your case before. Qualifying on work experience takes proper preparation - you need to prepare a case. Have you checked your work against O*Net? Is it a qualifying job?

Hi Britsimon

On my DS260 this is what it shows :-
Primary Occupation: OTHER
Specify Other: COMPUTER SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATOR

In O*NET this is what it shows :-
15-1142.00 Network and Computer Systems Administrators
http://www.onetonline.org/find/quick?s=systems+administrator

I am a Unix and Linux Systems Administrator , since 2001 to present day

Regards
Dharmin

 

[Britsimon]

hi..


Hi Britsimon

On my DS260 this is what it shows :-
Primary Occupation: OTHER
Specify Other: COMPUTER SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATOR

In O*NET this is what it shows :-
15-1142.00 Network and Computer Systems Administrators
http://www.onetonline.org/find/quick?s=systems administrator

I am a Unix and Linux Systems Administrator , since 2001 to present day

Regards
Dharmin

Excellent. Just make your case as clear as possible. Job offer/promotion letters, CV, anything like that. Get that together and there should be no issue at all. Print out the O*Net job and take it with you also.

 

[durbin]

Excellent. Just make your case as clear as possible. Job offer/promotion letters, CV, anything like that. Get that together and there should be no issue at all. Print out the O*Net job and take it with you also.

Thanks... I know my chances are 50:50 so lets see how lucky I am...

 

[Britsimon]

Thanks... I know my chances are 50:50 so lets see how lucky I am...

No - prepare properly and your chances (based on what you have said) are more like 99-1 (or better).

 

[durbin]

No - prepare properly and your chances (based on what you have said) are more like 99-1 (or better).

Thanks.. As for work I have been contracting for over 3yrs so have the reference letters from the recruitment agencies for last 3yrs, plus have reference letters from HR when I was in perm jobs. Also will carry my IT training certificates, CV, copy of my DS260.

 

[Britsimon]

Thanks.. As for work I have been contracting for over 3yrs so have the reference letters from the recruitment agencies for last 3yrs, plus have reference letters from HR when I was in perm jobs. Also will carry my IT training certificates, CV, copy of my DS260.

For the contracting period, the contracts themselves are very compelling evidence.

 

[durbin]

For the contracting period, the contracts themselves are very compelling evidence.

Agree... I'll need to request my current contract recruitment co. to send me properly typed contract in post as their contract docs are simple and all online , its like tick the box to accept T&C of the contract. My last contract after joining the co. midway the co. changed the name so on my contract docs its old co. name and on CV is the new co. name.

 

[Maisy]

For the contracting period, the contracts themselves are very compelling evidence.

Hi Britsimon, am I able to take pay slips (7 years) to prove that I have been working for the last 7 years?

 

[Britsimon]

Hi Britsimon, am I able to take pay slips (7 years) to prove that I have been working for the last 7 years?

It isn't just working that us the point, it is working in a job that meets the requirements.

You have applied but not won yet, this us a marathon, and as yet, the race hasn't started and you don't even know if you are in the race. Feel free to check out my blog in case you win...

 

[Maisy]

It isn't just working that us the point, it is working in a job that meets the requirements.

You have applied but not won yet, this us a marathon, and as yet, the race hasn't started and you don't even know if you are in the race. Feel free to check out my blog in case you win...

Thank you. This is valuable information and you're extremely knowledgeable.

 

[SusieQQQ]

Thank you. This is valuable information and you're extremely knowledgeable.

I agree that britsimon is very knowledgable and helpful, but if I recall correctly, the details about what is qualifying work experience are explained in the DV entry form instructions. (admittedly, every year we sadly see people who didn't read the instructions properly and don't qualify on either education or work.. I am always at a loss as to why people don't read the instructions before filling in the form.)

 

[Maisy]

I agree that britsimon is very knowledgable and helpful, but if I recall correctly, the details about what is qualifying work experience are explained in the DV entry form instructions. (admittedly, every year we sadly see people who didn't read the instructions properly and don't qualify on either education or work.. I am always at loss as to why people don't read the instructions before filling in the form.)

Thanks SusieQQQ, I have read everything that's out there including the instructions on the dvlottery.state.gov several times and am quite aware of the requirements.
The so-called “winners” of the diversity immigrant visa program must meet certain eligibility criteria to obtain a green card. The principal applicant must have the equivalent of a U.S. high school education, or two years of qualifying work experience in the last five years. A high school education is defined as the “successful completion of a formal course of elementary and secondary education comparable to completion of a 12-year course in the United States.” Only formal courses of study will meet this requirement. Thus, an equivalency certificate, such as a General Equivalency Diploma (G.E.D.), is insufficient.
If a candidate does not have the equivalent of a U.S. high school education, they have to prove that they have two years of work experience in an occupation that satisfies the incredibly high standard articulated by the U.S. Department of Labor. The Department of Labor’s O*Net Online database is used to determine qualifying work experience. Sadly their criteria make it virtually impossible for an individual without a high school diploma to qualify. Although the regulation provide that the occupation must be classified in a Specific Vocational Preparation (SVP) range of 7.0 or higher, the State Department’s instruction state that the occupation must be designated as a Job Zone 4 or 5 on the O*Net Online Database. As a result, most of the occupations that meet these criteria often require a bachelor’s, or even a master’s degree. The DV Lottery Application Instructions provide the example of an experienced aerospace engineer. In reality it is almost impossible to become an aerospace engineer without a high school diploma.
Sadly green card “winners” must not only meet these eligibility criteria but they must meet yet another challenge. Lottery “winners” are sequentially processed based on their rank serial number ( I'm unsure what they mean here- do they rank us according to education? - example applicants with PHD's are ranked high with low numbers) and candidates with high numbers have a lower chance of being scheduled for an interview, where they may have little or no time to correct deficiencies.

I was asking whether payslips were good enough in terms of providing evidence. one could use their cv, appraisal documents and employer job offering letters as evidence- once they are successfully though the first stage of selection. Gidday

 

[SusieQQQ]

Ok it seemed odd to me that you thought britsimon's answer gave you 'valuable information' in that case, I must have misunderstood your response to his post.

The criteria do not by the way make it impossible for someone without high school to qualify, we have had a few on this forum who have successfully done so. Harder yes, but not impossible. There are a number of professions where work experience and vocational qualifications can get you to the same level as a degreed person, albeit maybe a little later. IT seems to be one of the most common examples. Obviously an aeronautical engineer is probably not one of those, however I presume having read the instructions, you first checked o-net to see if your job qualified before you entered, as the instructions also say that you should not enter if you don't meet both eligibility and education/work requirements.

The rank numbers they refer to are simply the randomly generated case numbers. No they are not "ranked" on any attribute of the applicant, they just show where the applicant's 'rank' in the interview order is.