usken go
Well-Known Member
Congratulations. keep us updated as you book medicals - about three weeks before the interview, police certificate (right away) and brush up other documents. All the best
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DV 2015 KENYA SELECTEES FORUM
- Thread starter Kenyan gal
- Start date
usken go
Well-Known Member
Here is the iom e-mail: iomnbomedical@iom.int
Write to them and I am sure they will advise you adequately.
all the best.
Ms. Dada
Well-Known Member
@usken go
The agent was trying to extort money from the guy , Luckily he saw his CN and went on to submit the Ds260.
The agent somehow learnt about that and requested his DS to be unlocked , the agent tampered with his initial correct data and resubmitted the DS in late November. i.e changed his marital status, his DOB etc
He realized in December that had happened , we decided that he shouldn't confront the agent as yet, contacted KCC and did the unlocking / resubmitting then did an email to KCC saying that he wishes not to unlock his DS260 again.
He got the 2NL in Feb , The agent contacted him asking for $$$ in exchange of 2NL.
Visa approved on 4th March.
coronahope
Member
The love of money! Why tamper with someone's dreams? Good the agent lost. On the flipside, guys really ought to do away with agents. The application process is quite easy for anyone with a high school education. Anyway, all is well that ends well.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
I am very happy he bested the agent. Now, what he should do is inform the US embassy of what happened. What the agent did by tampering with the form is illegal /fraudulent and I don't think the embassy would be very pleased about it. The embassy may even be displeased enough to contact the police.
Quite frankly, if the agents never get punished they will never stop. And if no-one bothers reporting them they will never get caught.
usken go
Well-Known Member
Very encouraging to hear how greed lost.
This will be inspiring to so many others who will know that agents are an unnecessary evil in the dv process.
I agree with Susie- an email to the embassy about the agent is a good idea.
There doesn't seem to be many second 2ns in the forum but the CEAC data shows quite a number of cases for Nairobi!
Kovalski
New Member
I doubt the embassy would do anything, agents have been around for a very long time and continue to fare quite well on the general misinformation surrounding the DV lottery (on the street in many countries). Despite the DV program's success and improvement over the years, the agent problem persists and will likely continue for as long as the program remains open.
Last year I heard about an FBI investigation from the Cleveland,OH office about possible fraud allegations in DV winners applications from a particular Eastern Europian country who used agents. From an FBI standpoint, action to deal with this problem looks possible, but I doubt an embassy would lift a finger in going after agents. I suspect all the embassy would do is keep warning people against agents, just like they always do. Being realistic, I don't see how such a case (despite us understanding the ordeal the applicant went through) tells the embassy anything new that they don't already know about fraud when dealing with agents.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Well, there is a certain eastern european country, not sure if it is the same one you mean, where the embassy is actively taking steps to help people avoid agent blackmail by making sure for example that notification of interviews gets through to applicants directly, avoiding a lot of the problems we see here where agents get the 2nl and then demand money. But I guess people complained there, so something got done. Of course the embassy is not going to do anything about it if no-one complains about it and it has no formal basis on which to act, or knows who to investigate.
By the way embassies in a number of countries, including nigeria and Kenya and some others I forget now, have reported cooperating with local law enforcement to get people arrested if they have attempted immigration fraud or other fraud in visa processes, does that count as 'lifting a finger'? Maybe normal agent operations is simply blackmail and extortion but altering someone else's DS is fraud.
By the way embassies in a number of countries, including nigeria and Kenya and some others I forget now, have reported cooperating with local law enforcement to get people arrested if they have attempted immigration fraud or other fraud in visa processes, does that count as 'lifting a finger'? Maybe normal agent operations is simply blackmail and extortion but altering someone else's DS is fraud.
Kovalski
New Member
Yeah, that's probably the embassy that got in touch with the FBI to get more information from winners about agents. From the reports, it seems agent problems in that particular country got so endemic that the embassy had to step in (I don't think it was from individual reports, probably through a local investigation), which is very rare and borderline exceptional.
Most of reports we hear about where embassies engage local law enforcement is when they can see that the applicant is involved and knowingly participating in visa fraud by misrepresenting documents (marriage , etc)
But I personally think dealing with this problem by waiting for victims complaints and then acting on individual cases is just a drop in the ocean. Besides very few people will be lucky enough to discover they got cheated by agents (or may be discover the truth too late) and have material proof that could build a compelling case if reported to the embassy. Agents are also getting smarter everyday, I don't think they reveal their real names etc to clients.
The DoS has brought in technical innovations to reduce fraud to some extent, but this problem has tagged along the DV program for years, and apparently only a radical innovation will make it go away for good.
I also think embassies that really want to deal with the problem should step in and tackle the source of the problem: information&communication.
From what I have seen so far, agents' public relations and communication/advertising tools are way more effective and aggressive than what embassies do to warn people. So efficient are agents' PR and communication that I suspect most applicants genuinely believe agents are the only official way the lottery is run. As the saying goes, Don't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Somehow the embassies' warning message against agents just doesn't reach enough people to effectively curb the agent problem(why? Embassies should find that out, they're supposed to know their areas really well), may be embassies should look for another way to up their game in this context? But again, may be that's asking too much from them. Meanwhile, the problem will unfortunately continue to worsen with time as agents do constantly improve their tricks ("quality improvement" seems to be something agents take quite seriously).
Most of reports we hear about where embassies engage local law enforcement is when they can see that the applicant is involved and knowingly participating in visa fraud by misrepresenting documents (marriage , etc)
But I personally think dealing with this problem by waiting for victims complaints and then acting on individual cases is just a drop in the ocean. Besides very few people will be lucky enough to discover they got cheated by agents (or may be discover the truth too late) and have material proof that could build a compelling case if reported to the embassy. Agents are also getting smarter everyday, I don't think they reveal their real names etc to clients.
The DoS has brought in technical innovations to reduce fraud to some extent, but this problem has tagged along the DV program for years, and apparently only a radical innovation will make it go away for good.
I also think embassies that really want to deal with the problem should step in and tackle the source of the problem: information&communication.
From what I have seen so far, agents' public relations and communication/advertising tools are way more effective and aggressive than what embassies do to warn people. So efficient are agents' PR and communication that I suspect most applicants genuinely believe agents are the only official way the lottery is run. As the saying goes, Don't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Somehow the embassies' warning message against agents just doesn't reach enough people to effectively curb the agent problem(why? Embassies should find that out, they're supposed to know their areas really well), may be embassies should look for another way to up their game in this context? But again, may be that's asking too much from them. Meanwhile, the problem will unfortunately continue to worsen with time as agents do constantly improve their tricks ("quality improvement" seems to be something agents take quite seriously
).
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's probably the embassy that got in touch with the FBI to get more information from winners about agents. From the reports, it seems agent problems in that particular country got so endemic that the embassy had to step in (I don't think it was from individual reports, probably through a local investigation), which is very rare and borderline exceptional.
Most of reports we hear about where embassies engage local law enforcement is when they can see that the applicant is involved and knowingly participating in visa fraud by misrepresenting documents (marriage , etc)
But I personally think dealing with this problem by waiting for victims complaints and then acting on individual cases is just a drop in the ocean. Besides very few people will be lucky enough to discover they got cheated by agents (or may be discover the truth too late) and have material proof that could build a compelling case if reported to the embassy. Agents are also getting smarter everyday, I don't think they reveal their real names etc to clients.
The DoS has brought in technical innovations to reduce fraud to some extent, but this problem has tagged along the DV program for years, and apparently only a radical innovation will make it go away for good.
I also think embassies that really want to deal with the problem should step in and tackle the source of the problem: information&communication.
From what I have seen so far, agents' public relations and communication/advertising tools are way more effective and aggressive than what embassies do to warn people. So efficient are agents' PR and communication that I suspect most applicants genuinely believe agents are the only official way the lottery is run. As the saying goes, Don't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Somehow the embassies' warning message against agents just doesn't reach enough people to effectively curb the agent problem(why? Embassies should find that out, they're supposed to know their areas really well), may be embassies should look for another way to up their game in this context? But again, may be that's asking too much from them. Meanwhile, the problem will unfortunately continue to worsen with time as agents do constantly improve their tricks ("quality improvement" seems to be something agents take quite seriously
What you are saying is fair to a point BUT the point remains that, at least judging by what we see on this forum, almost no-one tells either the embassy or local law enforcement about being blackmailed by the agents. So of course nothing gets done. And because no-one who got scammed bothers to do anything about it, there is no news/information etc to warn off the next round of people about to get scammed... whereas in other countries, when people complain, things happen.
It's also interesting how your response seems to mirror what I have seen a number of other people do: blame the embassy for not doing enough re information. In other words, don't blame the criminals, blame the innocent bystanders.
Kovalski
New Member
Haha, well, criminals don't really have an incentive to fix the problem, do they? Whose best interest is it to clarify things? I'm sure it's not agents'. Whose interest is it to reduce chances of fraud in the program?
Only embassies can work with local law enforcements to fix this problem (do they need to conduct a survey? May be, may be not. Is it worth their time and resources? May be, may be not). Having said that, I'm not saying no one should bother to report anything to the embassy, it's ok to report, however people shouldn't have high hopes that the embassy would do something to right the wrong the applicant suffered.
Interestingly, you have highlighted yourself a strong difference among countries in terms of complaints yielding actions from embassies and Resulting in prosecutions of malicious agents, BUT NOT IN ALL COUNTRIES, so people in many countries can report if they want to, but they should not fool themselves in thinking the embassy in their country will SURELY act on their complaint because another embassy in another country reported acting on a similar case.
Another problem that you seem to ignore is that in some countries, due to local misconceptions or common misunderstanding in some places when it comes to dealing with any government institution (domestic and especially foreign)there is an element of fear or apprehension i.e. by the time an individual realizes he is being blackmailed, he maybe afraid to disclose to the embassy what happened with the agent by fear of being involved in the investigation, or being suspected of having knowingly intended to commit fraud as the agent's accomplice, and only walking out of their arrangement when the deal went sour etc.
This trend is not global but it happens in many countries, and it is worth knowing local contexts before advising people to engage with authorities and assuring them that justice will be served.
However, one thing I agree on is sharing unhappy episodes such as this recent one on forums such as this one to share information and warn people who may happen to read this and share them with people they know
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SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Well it's just part of the bigger picture then, you seem to describe a society riddled with corruption and where law enforcement doesn't care, then yes of course agents just do what everyone else does. I still don't see what harm reporting it to the embassy can do. At worst nothing happens, at best an agent gets convicted, but you seem to be saying no one should do anything about anything - fine, then don't complain about agents. You certainly can't make it the embassy's problem when you are basically saying "this is how everything works in this country and we don't do anything about it".
No wonder people from certain countries report massive culture shock on arriving in the US.
No wonder people from certain countries report massive culture shock on arriving in the US.
Kovalski
New Member
Hahah,massive culture shock is a HUGE understatement when talking about what people from certain countries experience when they arrive. Don't you know such societies exist or did you forget they exist.
No, I did not say nobody should do anything about it, read carefully.
That's right, local circumstances matter, if the only law enforcement agency the embassy can work with is corrupt, don't expect much, your energy may be better used in warning people and sharing your story on forums or even in local newspaper articles
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
That was part of my point, people don't even seem to do that. The few stories about agents we hear here for example are often second hand and only people seeking help for themselves, rather than trying to warn people in general. I don't live there, would be interested if you have ever seen a newspaper story or even a blog for locals where people warn about this, explain how the agents operate, etc? Where is the spirit that seeks to help others avoid the same pitfalls?
Kovalski
New Member
That's the spirit we should encourage. I read a story in a local newspaper during my stay in Johannesburg, South Africa about a winner who was single but was forced by the agent to apply for the visa with a lady as his wife, the lady had paid some money to this agent.
The story was published in November 2012, but of course such stories are extremely rare and that's why even this kind of warning doesn't get much traction. We should encourage this spirit, especially in a forum such as this.
May be the person we heard about in this forum to whom this happeed recently is not on this forum, and that's why we got the story secondhand, still I believe it is better than no story at all, on our turn we should share it widely in our circles and other forums.
Charity starts at home
usken go
Well-Known Member
In our radio talks , especially in the morning when many people are travelling to work.
It is difficult to catch the attention of the
local print media.
If I recall well, many posts a number of posts in this thread are about helping others. I remember the case of the guy who tried to forge his papers and the embassy turned him over to the cops who took him to court.
Agent problem in Kenya may not be prevalent but yes it is there to dome extent.
It is interesting to note that many DVD winners in Kenya opt not to be in this forum, including some who were here, reasons??
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usken go
Well-Known Member
As I have responded, yes it is helpful to share experiences and route out agents or any other malpractitioners.That's the spirit we should encourage. I read a story in a local newspaper during my stay in Johannesburg, South Africa about a winner who was single but was forced by the agent to apply for the visa with a lady as his wife, the lady had paid some money to this agent.
The story was published in November 2012, but of course such stories are extremely rare and that's why even this kind of warning doesn't get much traction. We should encourage this spirit, especially in a forum such as this.
May be the person we heard about in this forum to whom this happeed recently is not on this forum, and that's why we got the story secondhand, still I believe it is better than no story at all, on our turn we should share it widely in our circles and other forums.
Charity starts at home
If you want to reach the masses in Kenya today, your best bet would be the radio shows and the social media in that order of priority.
I used to avidly collect dv experiences and share them in this forum but I was somehow quarreled about always speaking of others and I had to go slow. It's a concern that this Kenyan DV 2015 is low on steam at this juncture' yet so many Nairobi cases continue to interview.
Britsimon
Super Moderator
They got freaked out that I was a KCC spy, and it seems they had something to hide...
Kovalski
New Member
I agree that the number of people on this forum may be insignificant in size compared to the overall number of people affected by the DV lottery program (applicants, winners, enthusiasts) but some people may also be on this forum or other similar forums and only read posts and remain silent without posting anything for different reasons.
On the other hand, most people may not be on a forum like this for different reasons, and most people just don't know such forums exist.
You have to be a medium Internet savvy person to find or come across such forums, the kind of person who is a little more inquisitive on the net than the average person (this also depends on where you live, access to Internet, etc) also let's not forget that a considerable number of DV applicants still don't enter their applications themselves without help, many people still rely on relatives, friends, agents to complete their applications. I remember my own experience finding this forum on Google, it was after exploring several other search results containing official reports on the DV program and stuff like that. So, this forum is not hidden but it's also not very difficult to miss on the Internet either.
I agree with your comment about using the radio as a first means of communication, and I think we tend to underestimate how effective radio programs/shows are in reaching a far larger audience than even the Internet does today.
On the issue of people quarreling you for sharing stories (as long as you don't mention names involved in cases) don't pay attention to them, keep sharing such stories because they help educate other people on this forum and as long as you don't have any malicious intention or offensive comments that breach Ts&Cs on this forum, you can say whatever you want, this is the Internet, if people don't like what you say, that's their problem, not yours, as long as your stories are enlightening to many others. On the Internet,you are free to share information.