DUI and 485

samds

Registered Users (C)
Hi.

I have a 485 pending in CA (Notice date Feb 2002)and pleaded guilty to DUI in CA. (first offence misdemeanor). Disposition was fine + informal probation.

The finger printing was done before this incident.

I want to know the impact on my pending AOS. What are my options. What should I do ?

Anyone have any ideas ?

Thanks
=samuel
 
You'll get a case transfer.

What can you do? Avoid a 2nd DUI because that would mean rejection.
 
Case transfer to a local office ?

Whats the difference ? ( I mean what woudl have happened without it). Also I dont live in CA. I live in MA.

Thanks.
 
As SM says, don't get a second DUI.

Also, if your probation is NOT over, petition the court for a termination of probation. You willl become immediately eligible for record clearance. The arrest will still show on your record, but you can state on job applications that you have never been convicted. (counts as case dismissed by court). If probation is over, apply for a record clearance immediately.

Unfortunately, BCIS does not care about record clearance. They only go by 'plea and penalty'. Did you plead guilty (or no contest) or found guilty by a jury, AND what was the sentence (whether served or not). The law asks that BCIS find you 'excludable' unless maximum sentence IMPOSED is less than 6 months in county jail where maximum POSSIBLE sentence is less than 1 year. It is the imposed sentence that counts, not the actual time served.

Exceptions to this is crimes of moral turpitude, where BCIS has more lattitude to screw you. BCIS also has lattitude to treat misdemeanors as aggravated felony. First DUI will NOT be treated as such.

Please note that DUI is a crime of moral turpitude, and hence you are technically 'excludable' from obtaining a GC. However, BCIS policy has been till date to treat first DUI as a lesser offence, and let you through.

Case transferred to local office will mean the local office serving where your address is showing up on BCIS records. If necessary you will have to travel to CA.

Interview means you willl go in there with all original docs submited with 485 application, court disposition of your case, and answer the questions asked. I have not been in a DUI or an interview, but you can see the thread regarding case transferred to local office for various experiences.

I am not sure whether they will know of DUI without another FP. I was told they do!

You don't have too many options except wait for case to be transferred, However rejection should not be a concern. Talk to a lawyer if uneasy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi .

I entered a plea of guilty (plea bargain) No trial. No sentence was imposed (ie no jail time)

Are you sure about DUI being a crime of moral turpitude ? I was told it is not ? I m going to talk to a lawyer about this.
 
Very nicely explained

Originally posted by niladri30
As SM says, don't get a second DUI.

Also, if your probation is NOT over, petition the court for a termination of probation. You willl become immediately eligible for record clearance. The arrest will still show on your record, but you can state on job applications that you have never been convicted. (counts as case dismissed by court). If probation is over, apply for a record clearance immediately.

Unfortunately, BCIS does not care about record clearance. They only go by 'plea and penalty'. Did you plead guilty (or no contest) or found guilty by a jury, AND what was the sentence (whether served or not). The law asks that BCIS find you 'excludable' unless maximum sentence IMPOSED is less than 6 months in county jail where maximum POSSIBLE sentence is less than 1 year. It is the imposed sentence that counts, not the actual time served.

Exceptions to this is crimes of moral turpitude, where BCIS has more lattitude to screw you. BCIS also has lattitude to treat misdemeanors as aggravated felony. First DUI will NOT be treated as such.

Please note that DUI is a crime of moral turpitude, and hence you are technically 'excludable' from obtaining a GC. However, BCIS policy has been till date to treat first DUI as a lesser offence, and let you through.

Case transferred to local office will mean the local office serving where your address is showing up on BCIS records. If necessary you will have to travel to CA.

Interview means you willl go in there with all original docs submited with 485 application, court disposition of your case, and answer the questions asked. I have not been in a DUI or an interview, but you can see the thread regarding case transferred to local office for various experiences.

I am not sure whether they will know of DUI without another FP. I was told they do!

You don't have too many options except wait for case to be transferred, However rejection should not be a concern. Talk to a lawyer if uneasy.

Great post. Congrats.
 
Sam,

It IS a CMT in my interpretation, but don't worry:

§ 11.3a Petty Offense Exception. One CMT will not constitute an excludable offense if the noncitizen has been convicted or admits the elements of only that single offense unless he was “sentenced to a term . . . in excess of six months,” regardless of time actually served) or the maximum statutory punishment exceeds one year.

§ 11.4 "Good Moral Character" A single CMT offense, that does not come within the petty offense or juvenile exception, or that results in confinement of 180 days or more, precludes establishment of Good Moral Character (GMC), if such conviction or confinement occurs during the required period preceding the application for the immigration benefit (e.g. five years for naturalization, ten years for cancellation of removal for a non resident, or five years for voluntary departure). (See Ch. 7, 8 and § 11.3).


---------------------

I maintain that DUI is a CMT because there is considerable latitude in law to interpret it as such in the worst case interpretation (the SOBs try to argue that it is an act of baseness against fellow men, because you knew you might injure/kill them). Although BCIS does guard against overzealous acts by their own, the following is an excerpt from practice guideline to other atorneys for noncitizens by U C Davis School of Law Immigration Law Clinic:

§ 11.1 Aggravated Felonies. (See Ch. 4). The immigration term “crimes of moral turpitude” (CMT) is a term of art under federal immigration law. The State of California definitions of moral
turpitude such as those set forth in the Business and Professions Code are not determinative. The United States Supreme Court has defined a CMT as an “act of baseness, vileness or depravity in the private and social duties which a man owes to his fellow men, or to society in general, contrary to the accepted and customary rule of right and duty between man and man.” The CMT classification does not depend on the classification of felony or misdemeanor nor on common law malum in se. Although a CMT is a “nebulous concept,”the case law does provide considerable guidance. As this Practice Guide illustrates, many CMT offenses overlap with aggravated felony categories. Others do not. The Practice Guide categorizes CMTs as crimes against persons or property (See Ch. 12); property crimes (See Ch. 13); crimes against the government, public safety or moral (See Ch.
14).
 
Originally posted by niladri30
(the SOBs try to argue that it is an act of baseness against fellow men, because you knew you might injure/kill them).

niladri30,

Strong language, you should read some stories about MADD (http://www.madd.org) after which I don't think you will argue too hard about categorizing DUI's under CMT.

samds,

To answer your original question, while DUI comes under CMT, as niladri30 stated, a single offense is not good enough to stop your GC. People have gotten GC's after DUI's which are sadly pretty common.
 
140,

I have no desire to argue that DUI is a CMT.

I am a conservative strategist when it comes to legal matters, and if I were facing a DUI, I would assume the worst and start from there. I felt I owed the courtesy of the same to Sam.

Thanks for the MADD link. One word of caution: citizens and non-citizens are treated vastly differently in this country since 1996 when Presiden Clinton signed into law the two immigration bills that targeted “alien criminals” (noncitizens). This new legislation, which amends the Immigration and Nationality Act is known as the Anti-terrorist and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. These provisions restrict the discretion of immigration judges to cancel deportation and of federal courts to review deportation orders based on criminal convictions. The 1996 laws also limit the eligibility of convicted offenders for relief from deportation or immigration benefits such as permanent residence, naturalization, or permission to return to the United States. The new legislation provides lengthy prison terms for aliens who remain or return to the United States after a final order of deportation based on a criminal conviction.

So we do not have the same protection that a citizen has, anymore.
 
Niladri...Dude, you must be charging for this..better advice than a lawyer or a doctor or any so called professional here!

Now I know whom to turn to if I get screwed by BCIS

:D
 
many thanks to all who posted replies. Seeing a lawyer to clarify. Will post whatever they tell me.
 
Jaic,

I know you mean well, but many URLs, while they have genuinely useful information, can contain attempts by attorneys to frighten potential clients to come to them.

Dead giveaways are statements like: "From immigration's perspective, an "arrest record" alone can establish the person's bad moral character (depending on what was written in the police report.) and lead to deportability."

While this can be true in some cases insofar that it may prevent an immigraion judge from finding stuff to rule in the noncitizen's favor, it must also be presented in perspective. At the risk of another interminably long post, I am posting some stuff from the UC Davis guide again, as it mey be important to people. Also, note that this kind of scrutiny is reserved for narcotics possession,severe assault and battery, etc. It is not worth BCIS' while to cause you problems if they know they will lose in court.

9.3 Categorical Analysis. In order to determine if a conviction for a particular crime is an aggravated felony, deportable offense, or an excludable offense, the BIA and immigration judges must first look to the statute itself and make a finding whether a conviction under the statute necessarily includes the elements required for adverse immigration consequences. This is known as the “categorical” approach. The actual conduct which resulted in the conviction should not be considered in immigration proceedings.

§ 9.4 Divisible Statutes. A “divisible statute” includes violations that carry both adverse immigration consequences and violations with no immigration consequences. Where the statute under which the noncitizen was convicted is “divisible,” the BIA looks to the “record of conviction” to determine whether the alien’s conduct as revealed in the “record of conviction” includes the
required elements for the adverse immigration consequences.

§ 9.5 Record of Conviction. The “record of conviction” consists of the indictment (criminal information or complaint), the plea, the verdict, and the sentence. It includes statements and admissions made by the defendant and judge during plea and sentencing hearings that are substantiated by official court transcripts. The BIA has found police reports to be outside of the record of conviction, but have allowed judges to consider them in matters of discretionary relief. “[T]he the record of conviction does not include the trial record, pre-sentence report, the prosecutor’s sentencing report, the prosecutor’s sentencing remarks, or the trial judge’s opinion."

In In re Teixeira, Int. Dec. 3273, 1996 WL 229452 (BIA 1996), the BIA held that the “record of conviction” includes all documents that are admissible as evidence in any proceeding before an immigration judge to prove a conviction as provided by 8 C.F.R. § 3.41. The regulation provides that:
“In any proceeding before an immigration judge, any of the following documents or records shall be admissible as evidence in proving a criminal conviction: (1) a record of judgment and onviction; (2) a record of plea, verdict and sentence; (3) a docket entry from court records that indicates the existence of a conviction; (4) minutes of a court proceeding or a transcript of
a hearing that indicates the existence of a conviction; (5) an abstract of a record of conviction prepared by the court in which the conviction was entered, or by a state official associated
with the state’s repository of criminal justice records, that indicates the following: the charge or section of law violated, the disposition of the case, the existence and date of conviction, and
the sentence; (6) documents or records [including electronic records] prepared by, or under the direction of, the court in which the conviction was entered that indicate the existence of a
conviction. . . ."
 
I concur with you niladri......

I think we maybe lot smarter than lots of lawyer around (NOT ALL, OFCOURSE), and everybody interpret a certain clause quite differently.......

Some may be just plain greedy..........






Originally posted by niladri30
Jaic,

I know you mean well, but many URLs, while they have genuinely useful information, can contain attempts by attorneys to frighten potential clients to come to them.

Dead giveaways are statements like: "From immigration's perspective, an "arrest record" alone can establish the person's bad moral character (depending on what was written in the police report.) and lead to deportability."

While this can be true in some cases insofar that it may prevent an immigraion judge from finding stuff to rule in the noncitizen's favor, it must also be presented in perspective. At the risk of another interminably long post, I am posting some stuff from the UC Davis guide again, as it mey be important to people. Also, note that this kind of scrutiny is reserved for narcotics possession,severe assault and battery, etc. It is not worth BCIS' while to cause you problems if they know they will lose in court.

9.3 Categorical Analysis. In order to determine if a conviction for a particular crime is an aggravated felony, deportable offense, or an excludable offense, the BIA and immigration judges must first look to the statute itself and make a finding whether a conviction under the statute necessarily includes the elements required for adverse immigration consequences. This is known as the “categorical” approach. The actual conduct which resulted in the conviction should not be considered in immigration proceedings.

§ 9.4 Divisible Statutes. A “divisible statute” includes violations that carry both adverse immigration consequences and violations with no immigration consequences. Where the statute under which the noncitizen was convicted is “divisible,” the BIA looks to the “record of conviction” to determine whether the alien’s conduct as revealed in the “record of conviction” includes the
required elements for the adverse immigration consequences.

§ 9.5 Record of Conviction. The “record of conviction” consists of the indictment (criminal information or complaint), the plea, the verdict, and the sentence. It includes statements and admissions made by the defendant and judge during plea and sentencing hearings that are substantiated by official court transcripts. The BIA has found police reports to be outside of the record of conviction, but have allowed judges to consider them in matters of discretionary relief. “[T]he the record of conviction does not include the trial record, pre-sentence report, the prosecutor’s sentencing report, the prosecutor’s sentencing remarks, or the trial judge’s opinion."

In In re Teixeira, Int. Dec. 3273, 1996 WL 229452 (BIA 1996), the BIA held that the “record of conviction” includes all documents that are admissible as evidence in any proceeding before an immigration judge to prove a conviction as provided by 8 C.F.R. § 3.41. The regulation provides that:
“In any proceeding before an immigration judge, any of the following documents or records shall be admissible as evidence in proving a criminal conviction: (1) a record of judgment and onviction; (2) a record of plea, verdict and sentence; (3) a docket entry from court records that indicates the existence of a conviction; (4) minutes of a court proceeding or a transcript of
a hearing that indicates the existence of a conviction; (5) an abstract of a record of conviction prepared by the court in which the conviction was entered, or by a state official associated
with the state’s repository of criminal justice records, that indicates the following: the charge or section of law violated, the disposition of the case, the existence and date of conviction, and
the sentence; (6) documents or records [including electronic records] prepared by, or under the direction of, the court in which the conviction was entered that indicate the existence of a
conviction. . . ."
 
Originally posted by niladri30
As SM says, don't get a second DUI.

Also, if your probation is NOT over, petition the court for a termination of probation. You willl become immediately eligible for record clearance. The arrest will still show on your record, but you can state on job applications that you have never been convicted. (counts as case dismissed by court). If probation is over, apply for a record clearance immediately.

Unfortunately, BCIS does not care about record clearance. They only go by 'plea and penalty'. Did you plead guilty (or no contest) or found guilty by a jury, AND what was the sentence (whether served or not). The law asks that BCIS find you 'excludable' unless maximum sentence IMPOSED is less than 6 months in county jail where maximum POSSIBLE sentence is less than 1 year. It is the imposed sentence that counts, not the actual time served.

Exceptions to this is crimes of moral turpitude, where BCIS has more lattitude to screw you. BCIS also has lattitude to treat misdemeanors as aggravated felony. First DUI will NOT be treated as such.

Please note that DUI is a crime of moral turpitude, and hence you are technically 'excludable' from obtaining a GC. However, BCIS policy has been till date to treat first DUI as a lesser offence, and let you through.

Case transferred to local office will mean the local office serving where your address is showing up on BCIS records. If necessary you will have to travel to CA.

Interview means you willl go in there with all original docs submited with 485 application, court disposition of your case, and answer the questions asked. I have not been in a DUI or an interview, but you can see the thread regarding case transferred to local office for various experiences.

I am not sure whether they will know of DUI without another FP. I was told they do!

You don't have too many options except wait for case to be transferred, However rejection should not be a concern. Talk to a lawyer if uneasy.




You seem to know a lot about this....

Were you also in the same situation? I think yes
 
gracgom

Originally posted by gracgom
You seem to know a lot about this....

Were you also in the same situation? I think yes

gracgom,

I wonder why you don't just stick to the relevancy of the post instead of doubting/posing non-related questions at someone who is genuinely trying to solve a problem?

Is it too much to ask, for you to either help with the solution or stop posing inconsequential statements?
 
Re: gracgom

Originally posted by 140_takes_4ever
gracgom,

I wonder why you don't just stick to the relevancy of the post instead of doubting/posing non-related questions at someone who is genuinely trying to solve a problem?

Is it too much to ask, for you to either help with the solution or stop posing inconsequential statements?

Last time I checked this was a free country. I can question if I want to..if you dont like my posts

DONT READ THEM for crying out loud!
 
Re: Re: gracgom

Originally posted by gracgom
Last time I checked this was a free country. I can question if I want to..if you dont like my posts

DONT READ THEM for crying out loud!

Interesting that the freedom of speech belongs exclusively to you. And truth doth hurt!
 
Top