TheInquisitor said:if you say so. i am no idiot. the road is there. and sooner or later it will happen.
so fine. DREAM won't become law. wonderful. amen. let's party. and guess what else won't become law; the fence, birthright citzenship, verification system, clear act, and other wonderful things you want. how is REAL ID working out for you so far? and guess who won't be chair next year no matter who controls congress? you guess it, sensenbrenner. so another 3 million illegal aliens will come this year and another 3 the year after that. and another 3 the year after that. and another 3 the year after that. and another 3 the year after that. and another 3 the year after that. what to prevent that? make a deal.
make a deal or keep staus quo. those are your only two options.
marlon2006 said:Currently there is a battle going on. Let's wait and watch the upcoming elections. If the pro amnesty side wins, illegals, and to a some extent, legal immigrants should directly benefit for few more years to come. Yes, you should get your Dream Act and amnesty bill passed. I think that is possible. Given the current atmosphere, personally I believe that eventually could trigger a reaction force enough to make a Tancredo or a Sen. King be elected years from now. However, we could be fine by then.
On the other hand, if most pro illegal alien incumbents get kicked out of the office and replaced by yes, Republicans who are immigration restrictionists, then the immigrat community in general will be in a bad shape in the short-term. Forget CIR and your Dream Act. That would be "just a dream". That is specially true for the illegal alien population.
I will leave up to you observe and decide which scenario you believe in. From my personal observation, I believe that the latter is the tendency. I may be wrong though. Let's just watch.
If you think that the US has been sympathetic to immigration in general so far, there is just one explanation:it is because so far it has absorbed all of us. The day that we start to come here at larger numbers, that will piss off Americans and then this will become a kind of Europe. No longer as good for immigrants. It is already happening, too bad many of us don't get it.
In 1986 there was a big amnesty here. There were others after that, including the ingenous 245(i) in 2001. The difference is that now is you have the public way more involved and fed up. You have the Internet. That is a very, very powerful democractic tool. It is not longer all that easy for lobbysts pay Congressmen and get away of it. People can attempt to introduce buzzwords to mask 'amnesty' etc, but people are way more informed these days.
Good luck to us all.
puceml72 said:in 1986 is was a real amnesty without any condition this time it's seem different right?? do you think if they do pass amnesty it will be what the senate brought up? or they will do amnesty without condition???
TheInquisitor said:if you have no status, you are in. for the record, i am for all to get DREAM if they have been here for five years and came before the age of 16.
TheInquisitor said:you couuld have bene legal for the last ten eyars and still be in. if you become illegal today and DREAM becomes law tomorrow, you are in. so if you have no status, you are in.
>>>> Put pressure on employers and many things can be automated. Not everything can be automated, but a lot can. Personally I think those non-violent prisoners could be better used as well.-me- said:a few comments on this... rubbish.
decent wages == increased prices. I seriously doubt that Americans (especially retired ones) want to pay more for almost everything.
>>>> Part of the savings are not passed to consumers. At least from the hearing during the Senate Judiciary Committee, one of the economists said the same. It is hard to find out exactly the figure for this, but it seems that many business owners are getting higher profits. That means that if you start paying a decent wage, prices may go higher, but not necessarily too high.
well, agreed.
No they are not critical for the economy of the U.S. However, increased prices are definitely not what American wants. They love cheap labor and cheap prices. Could you imagine a price of (e.g.) tomatoes, picked by a white American?
They reduce prices and do all dirty jobs for pennies.
>>>> As is now, people are already paying a very high price for the tomato. You pay $1/lb on the store as a downpayment, then you tway more in social services. It has been that way for a long time. Listen, a person from my wife's church, just got a medical procedure last week. That was not an emergency. The gentleman makes $8,000/month (and remember, he pays no taxes). He walked into the hospital saying that he has no money, just complained that it hurts a lot. Well, don't ask me how, but the hospital went ahead and performed the procedure. Later, they will send him the $75,000 bill, he said. He is simply going to the court and tell he has no money. Tell me how many tomatoes you can buy with $75,000. Examples like that are everywhere. The idea that the cheap labor/illegal alien business is a wonderful gain is just a myth. Very few are fooled by that.
Is he talking about those guys who took over control on the lands of Native Americans by guns and money? I seriously doubt that this way can be called "legal".
Really? Does this guy have any understanding of backlog, priority dates and visa bulletin? I guess not.
(from visa bulleting) 226,000 family visas + 140,000 EBs + 55,000 DVs = 421,000 visas anually.
Canada stamps 300,000 visas anually. I don't have statistics on AU and NZ, but I guess these three countries together issue more visas than US. However the population of these countries is less than US population.
So that is an obvious BS.
>>>> Canada stamps 300,000 visas, but take a look at how many leave the country after getting the visa stamped
BS. Latinos will vote for an "amnesty" guy no matter which party (s)he is from. White Americans don't understand a very simple thing. Latinos want to get their relatives/families legalized. They don't care which party will take a lead on this.
>>>> Some latinos disagree with you:
Hispanic American Coalition, You Don't Speak for Me!, Joins With House Leaders to Oppose Senate Amnesty Plan
Group Urges a 'Reverse Migration' Enforcement Strategy
WASHINGTON, May 12 /PRNewswire/ -- You Don't Speak for Me!, a new national coalition of American Hispanics that supports immigration enforcement, is joining with leaders in the House of Representatives who have sent a letter to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist opposing legislation that would grant amnesty to 12 million or more illegal aliens. Members of the You Don't Speak for Me! coalition will be renewing their call for swift Senate action on an enforcement only bill at a Capitol Hill news conference on Wednesday, May 17 with leading members of the House and Senate
...:
Definitely it'll be the end for white Americans.
Something tells me that it might be the truth. At least a part of the truth.
again agreed. Breaking the law is definitely not a way to go.
And the First one in about a week. ;-)
... cheap prices and slaves (aka temporary alien workers) working for free. Americans want to get all possible benefits of being the leader country, but don't want to pay the price.
Nice. So we guys are nothing else than trash. Very nice. I just want to point out that I pay for this guy social security benefits. I guess I may require some level of appreciation.
Yeah. They want to take managerial positions and $XXX,XXX.00 salaries. Nobody wants to pick crop on the fields. ;-)
again, make a white American to pick crop. ;-)
TheInquisitor said:marlon, when will you learn? and do you think we will let you even do that? we might not be strong enough to win, but we could tie. and since you actually think attrition will work, then you obviously don't know that the both the far-left and the far-right will destroy you. and the beauty of it is that they won't know that they are doing my dirty work.
puce, there are children of hb1 people that have been here like since the age of 14 and all. some when they turn 21 go out of status. if they turn 21 on tuesday (and lose staus) and DREAM becomes law on monday, they are out. DREAM becomes law on tuesday, they are in. i am in favor of getting DREAM to any individual that has been here for five years and came before the age of 16.
i still like DREAM's chances. cornyn and kyl both support DREAM with an age limit . kyl is really big on that. some say perhaps 30. but we will fight that. and cornyn wants to make sure people really do two years of school. he would rather have people that go to a four-year school get a bs/ba. and in march both cornyn and kyl said they would be for amnesty for high-skilled people. three of the most powerful house members when it comes to immigration have supported DREAM in the past and about half (if not more) of the republicans that will go on the conference cmte support DREAM. and Bush doesn't think we should punish children (on the record) and will sign DREAM if it gets to his desk (let it be known). and he already wants those who have been here for five years to get legal status.
the road is set. and with marie gonzales set to be deported on july 1st, the issue will be on the table. and it will be the last item to be taken off the table in any negotiations. and who knows, it might even becoem law via some other bill. so just hand in there. it will be hard, but it might happen this year.
marlon2006 said:>>>> Part of the savings are not passed to consumers. At least from the hearing during the Senate Judiciary Committee, one of the economists said the same. It is hard to find out exactly the figure for this, but it seems that many business owners are getting higher profits. That means that if you start paying a decent wage, prices may go higher, but not necessarily too high.
marlon2006 said:>>>> As is now, people are already paying a very high price for the tomato. You pay $1/lb on the store as a downpayment, then you tway more in social services. It has been that way for a long time. Listen, a person from my wife's church, just got a medical procedure last week. That was not an emergency. The gentleman makes $8,000/month (and remember, he pays no taxes). He walked into the hospital saying that he has no money, just complained that it hurts a lot. Well, don't ask me how, but the hospital went ahead and performed the procedure. Later, they will send him the $75,000 bill, he said. He is simply going to the court and tell he has no money. Tell me how many tomatoes you can buy with $75,000. Examples like that are everywhere. The idea that the cheap labor/illegal alien business is a wonderful gain is just a myth. Very few are fooled by that.
1. The author of the letter was talking about the overall immigration stream. He said an obvious lie.marlon2006 said:>>>> Canada stamps 300,000 visas, but take a look at how many leave the country after getting the visa stamped
marlon2006 said:>>>> Some latinos disagree with you:
Hispanic American Coalition, You Don't Speak for Me!, Joins With House Leaders to Oppose Senate Amnesty Plan
Group Urges a 'Reverse Migration' Enforcement Strategy
WASHINGTON, May 12 /PRNewswire/ -- You Don't Speak for Me!, a new national coalition of American Hispanics that supports immigration enforcement, is joining with leaders in the House of Representatives who have sent a letter to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist opposing legislation that would grant amnesty to 12 million or more illegal aliens. Members of the You Don't Speak for Me! coalition will be renewing their call for swift Senate action on an enforcement only bill at a Capitol Hill news conference on Wednesday, May 17 with leading members of the House and Senate
...:
-me- said:They will be high enough to crack a budget of families with low income. Middle class families will be very uncomfortable when they start paying more for everyday purchases. What do you think they gonna say about this? I don't think they will love it.
>>>>> Can you tell which studies are you based on to make such a claim ? How many percent on costs of good and services it would increase then ? In your quantitative analysis, did you consider that costs with education, health care and public infrastructure would be offset by that such as earlier example I cited ?
$75,000 treatment is not an emergency??? Pal, there can be two possible scenarios
1. the treatment didn't cost $75,000 and it' wasn't an emergency
2. the treatment did cost $75,000 and it wan an emergency.
Pick one and we'll discuss it, ok? I had dealt with ER and you know what? They are way too overpriced.
Disclaimer - I have medical insurance and I've seen how the insurance
company cut the ER bill in half.
>>>>> No. I think that is a third alternative that you dismissed. I think just because something is pricey it doesn't mean is necessarily an emergency. Perhaps the hospital justified that as an emergency, I haven't talked to him yet about it. What I know for a fact is that the issue was non life threatening. Just to give you an idea, my wife's bill for a baby and some pregnancy complications was $30,000+. I know that a lady, who is also from my church and said to be here illegally, got a similiar bill for $30,000. In this another example, I am pretty sure because my wife was submitted to same treatment. As I told you before, examples like that showing that there is a hidden cost that often is neglected by those who want to support the illegal immigration cause is very easy to find.
1. The author of the letter was talking about the overall immigration stream. He said an obvious lie.
2. less than 10%. I saw the statistics on cic.gc.ca somehow. Ask me why I was interested in that? I'm one of those 10% ;-) However nobody from Canadian immigrants, who I know, have left Canada yet. I'm sorta exception. ;-)
>>>> Oh, no. In certain regions is way more than that. 40% in some areas. But I was just joking. That was not a serious argument from my side.
However, it is a fact that the US currently allows 1.1 million/year, and that is a lot anyway.
Has anybody heard something about these guys action on May 17? I doubt it.
Let's just compare how many Latinos will vote for CIR and how many against, ok? ;-) I've seen anti-immigration meeting nearby my home. Man, there were about 50 white Americans. That's it. No Hispanics, no Asians. Make a
conclusion.
>>>> Are you talking about lawmakers voting for CIR on May 17th ? Those may be paid by lobbysts. No wonder why the Senate is at a record disapproval rate. Just watch and see how Latinos will vote this coming November.
TheInquisitor said:marlon, when will you learn? and do you think we will let you even do that? we might not be strong enough to win, but we could tie. and since you actually think attrition will work, then you obviously don't know that the both the far-left and the far-right will destroy you. and the beauty of it is that they won't know that they are doing my dirty work.
puce, there are children of hb1 people that have been here like since the age of 14 and all. some when they turn 21 go out of status. if they turn 21 on tuesday (and lose staus) and DREAM becomes law on monday, they are out. DREAM becomes law on tuesday, they are in. i am in favor of getting DREAM to any individual that has been here for five years and came before the age of 16.
i still like DREAM's chances. cornyn and kyl both support DREAM with an age limit . kyl is really big on that. some say perhaps 30. but we will fight that. and cornyn wants to make sure people really do two years of school. he would rather have people that go to a four-year school get a bs/ba. and in march both cornyn and kyl said they would be for amnesty for high-skilled people. three of the most powerful house members when it comes to immigration have supported DREAM in the past and about half (if not more) of the republicans that will go on the conference cmte support DREAM. and Bush doesn't think we should punish children (on the record) and will sign DREAM if it gets to his desk (let it be known). and he already wants those who have been here for five years to get legal status.
the road is set. and with marie gonzales set to be deported on july 1st, the issue will be on the table. and it will be the last item to be taken off the table in any negotiations. and who knows, it might even becoem law via some other bill. so just hand in there. it will be hard, but it might happen this year.