Derivative US Citizenship (like you havent heard it before - but theres death and excitement here)

R

RivinGunning

Registered Users (C)
I am Canadian

My Paternal grandfather is a us citizen - has lived there his whole life except for a few years he came up to canada (trucker) met my grandma - married - had a couple kids with her had to leave canada for a legal issue and never came back.

I believe he was born before May of 1934.

1) So any way by this I feel his children were US Citizens at birth - correct?
- thats my aunt and my father

story two - my father marries my mom has me and my brothers

They looked into US citizenship about five years ago - but apparently didnt have the power of google so they tried to contact my dad's dad but estranged - couldnt get to him - a didnt actually file for citizenship for my dad.

Heres the excitement - then my dad dies - big fire in his apartment - so that was that.
(see how exciting that was? - the fire men thought it was exciting)

I want US citizenship (dual - i just want it for school and the airforce - i love canada - canada is my home)

I was looking in to N-600 forms - That would work for my brothers (under 18) if my dad was a citizen - but he was at birth and there were circumstances preventing him from claiming it right? (no knowing)

2) So is there away to claim it posthumously so the Grandfather (still alive) can sign off on getting the N-600s filled out for my brothers?

(dad never lived in the us so direct claiming wouldnt work id assume)

And for me - im 19

But with all the estrangement and confusion and father dying - ness

3) Is there any appeal or special circumstances or lawyer that can make something work?


4) my aunt is still alive - is she technically american? does she just have to apply for the passport?
 
What year was your father born? Your aunt? The laws for citizenship by birth have changed a few times over the years.

Was your grandfather married to your father's mother when your father was born? How old was your grandfather when he moved to Canada?

Among other things, you'll need your grandfather's US birth certificate, not just a belief that he was born in 1934.
 
Jackolantern said:
What year was your father born? Your aunt? The laws for citizenship by birth have changed a few times over the years.

Was your grandfather married to your father's mother when your father was born? How old was your grandfather when he moved to Canada?

Among other things, you'll need your grandfather's US birth certificate, not just a belief that he was born in 1934.
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Of course ill be getting the birth certificate - i just wanted to know if it was possible before deciding to talk to a grandfather ive never met before.

Father born 1966 - May
Aunt - 1963

Father's father and mother were married at the time of his birth - Since then have been divorced.

Grandfather lived in canada for about 3 years - he moved around the age of 25-30.



So from this info here
"For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true (except if born out-of-wedlock)[8]:
The person's parents were married at the time of birth
One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born
The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday."

My dad was a US citizen when he was born - so was my aunt.
Their father never reported their births - so they didnt get that peice of paper.
But they were born citizens - so how to apply for a passport is what im wondering too now
 
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Based on what you've written your father and aunt were US citizens at birth, just not officially recognized as citizens.

You and your siblings are not US citizens, because your father didn't live in the US for the required number of years before your and their births (5 years, including at least 2 after his 14th birthday). However, there is some hope for your under-18 siblings to obtain citizenship via the N-600K process, which is for children living abroad who have a US citizen parent and it allows using a grandparent's years of presence in the US if the parent doesn't have the required number of years. To be eligible, the N-600K must be filed within 5 years since your father's death.

Your grandfather would have to sign the N-600K and provide evidence of having US citizenship and being married at the time of your father's birth, and also evidence of living in the US for at least 10 years before your father's birth including 5 years after his 14th birthday (unfortunately this is more difficult than it sounds, because they can be very nitpicking with what evidence they'll accept).

Don' t confuse that with N-600; N-600K is a different process where citizenship is not granted until the process is complete, whereas N-600 is for recognizing citizenship that already existed at the time of submitting the application. Your aunt is eligible for N-600, but not your siblings.
 
Thank you so much for your help - its great to have some one confirm what you had tried to gather from legal documents that go over your head.
Thank you

Copy that - difference between N-600k and N-600 forms - noted.

Has any one heard of sone one over 18 getting citizenship - family death - estranged grandfather - special circumstances?

Brother will be 18 in four months - paper work wont go through that quickly will it.
 
RivinGunning said:
Has any one heard of sone one over 18 getting citizenship - family death - estranged grandfather - special circumstances?
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Not in your circumstances. People who met the criteria to automatically derive citizenship before 18 can claim citizenship at any age after that (your aunt, for example), but children who didn't get automatic citizenship at birth can't derive citizenship automatically after that if they're living outside the US without a green card; it will be necessary to use the non-automatic process of N-600K before age 18. After that it's too late, and if you want citizenship you'll have to obtain it through your own merit, by getting a green card and living in the US long enough to qualify for naturalization via N-400.

Brother will be 18 in four months - paper work wont go through that quickly will it.
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Yes it's possible. There is a way to request expediting, and even without expediting, a large percentage of cases are completed in less than 4 months.

The big challenge is digging up enough acceptable evidence of your grandfather living in the US for 10 years before the birth of his children in Canada, including 5 after turning 14. Fortunately it doesn't have to be the last 10 years right before the births, it can be any accumulation of days and months and years in his life before the births, as long as the total adds up to the required 5 and 10.

US school records are a good bet, since those are usually easy to obtain if the schools still exist and they are almost always accepted for this purpose. However, they'll only count about 9 months per school year, because he could have been abroad in the breaks between semesters. And if he didn't go to college, his school records would probably stop at 17 or 18, leaving him short of the 5 years after age 14.

Did your grandfather serve in the military before moving to Canada? Military service counts as time in the US, regardless of where he served.
 
I mentioned that your aunt was eligible for N-600. However, if she's not living in the US she can't file it right now. First she'll have to get a US passport which can be done in Canada through a US consulate. After that she can make arrangements to spend enough time in the US for the N-600.

Although the N-600 by itself is sufficient evidence of US citizenship, if she loses her passport and doesn't have N-600 she may find herself having to again dig up evidence of her father's citizenship and him living in the US for the required number of years. With N-600 she'll have independent non-expiring proof of citizenship, never having to rely on her father's citizenship and related evidence again.
 
Jackolantern said:
I mentioned that your aunt was eligible for N-600. However, if she's not living in the US she can't file it right now. First she'll have to get a US passport which can be done in Canada through a US consulate. After that she can make arrangements to spend enough time in the US for the N-600.

Although the N-600 by itself is sufficient evidence of US citizenship, if she loses her passport and doesn't have N-600 she may find herself having to again dig up evidence of her father's citizenship and him living in the US for the required number of years. With N-600 she'll have independent non-expiring proof of citizenship, never having to rely on her father's citizenship and related evidence again.
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How does she file for that us passport in canada with out having the proof of citizenship yet?



But even if you dont answer that


thank you so much for spending the time to give your opinion on my case - it means a lot :)
 
RivinGunning said:
How does she file for that us passport in canada with out having the proof of citizenship yet?
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She would provide a collection of documents as evidence of all the relevant facts, such as:

Her father's US birth certificate and marriage certificate
Her father's divorce decree (if applicable)
Her mother's death certificate (if applicable)
Her own birth certificate with her father's name on it
Proof of her father living in the US for the required number of years before her birth (for example school records, military records, college transcripts)
 
I just phoned the USCIS and they said since my father died recently its still possible to get him official US citizen ship information and that even though I'm nineteen its still okay to file the N-600K form as my grandfather meets the residency requirements and did so before i turned eighteen.

Are the officers in those departments frequently incorrect? I dont have his badge number or anything so I cant reference this information for sure for the future - but Im still going to try to apply for the official citizenship forms for my dad - as I understand it he was a citizen at birth because he was born to a citizen parent who met the residency requirement - just never applied for a passport or was reported
 
What year was your father born? Your aunt? The laws for citizenship by birth have changed a few times over the years.

Was your grandfather married to your father's mother when your father was born? How old was your grandfather when he moved to Canada?

Among other things, you'll need your grandfather's US birth certificate, not just a belief that he was born in 1934.
 
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