Deported or inadmissible for shoplifting

[mongolian]

I came to US on a student visa in 2003. However, I never attended any college and worked "under the table for three years. During this time I was arrested for shoplifting. But the charge was expunged after I did 120 hours of community service. I then met a US citizen and was able to get a green card. I didn't tell them about the prior charge because it was expunged. I now have a permanent 10 year green card. Since then I have been caught shoplifting four other times but one was dismissed after attending a class for first time offenders. My question is this.

The law seems to say that I would have had to be sentenced to one year of jail to be eligible for deported. But I never received any jail sentences for any of my shoplifting charges. But then the law says I can still be deported for multiple charges. Do these multiple charges all have to be one year too.

I was denied citizenship in 2010 for the first two shopliftings and have had no problem coming into the country after a vacation. Well, the last time I was pulled over at the airport but the man there said just to be sure I have the court documents with me if I travel again.

So it doesn't look like I will have problem coming into the country but I don't know if the number of shopliftings may get me deported. Do they all have to be one year sentences? Also, will it matter to immigration that I didn't tell them about my first shoplifting?

 

[ananga73]

You're lucky you've not been deported already. You've become a serial shoplifter and I'm not sure you're the type of immigrant the USCIS wants to become citizens.

You could even be deported for the fact that you could be construed to have committed immigration fraud because you never attended college.

When was your last shoplifting conviction and what were the amounts? You're treading dangerous waters and when an overzealous/astute immigration officer lays hands on you/your file, you could be in for a rude awakening.

Seek professional help for your kleptomania.

I came to US on a student visa in 2003. However, I never attended any college and worked "under the table for three years. During this time I was arrested for shoplifting. But the charge was expunged after I did 120 hours of community service. I then met a US citizen and was able to get a green card. I didn't tell them about the prior charge because it was expunged. I now have a permanent 10 year green card. Since then I have been caught shoplifting four other times but one was dismissed after attending a class for first time offenders. My question is this.

The law seems to say that I would have had to be sentenced to one year of jail to be eligible for deported. But I never received any jail sentences for any of my shoplifting charges. But then the law says I can still be deported for multiple charges. Do these multiple charges all have to be one year too.

I was denied citizenship in 2010 for the first two shopliftings and have had no problem coming into the country after a vacation. Well, the last time I was pulled over at the airport but the man there said just to be sure I have the court documents with me if I travel again.

So it doesn't look like I will have problem coming into the country but I don't know if the number of shopliftings may get me deported. Do they all have to be one year sentences? Also, will it matter to immigration that I didn't tell them about my first shoplifting?

 

[mongolian]

don't judge me

Its pretty obvious that immigration really doesn't care about my "klepto" as you put it so I'm not worried about them. I just wanted to know if anyone knows what the facts are on the multiple crimes law. Do they each have to be one year sentence. It doesn't matter if you judge me because the only ones that matter are the immigration people and they don't think I did anything wrong anyway.

 

[CalGreenCard]

It doesn't matter if you judge me because the only ones that matter are the immigration people and they don't think I did anything wrong anyway.

Clearly you made a mistake--multiple mistakes. Whether it is enough to get you deported, I do not know.

I think you are going to need to speak to an immigration lawyer--especially one who specializes in the immigration consequences of criminal convictions. The problem is that I believe that generally speaking shoplifting is considered a "crime involving moral turpitude" CIMT--and with two or more convictions for CIMT, you would be deportable regardless of the sentence length for each conviction. There might be exceptions--for example if the specific state law you were convicted under included simply forgetting to pay, rather than intentional stealing, it might not be a CIMT--but I believe you would need to speak to an attorney. I doubt anyone on here is qualified to say for sure. Although immigration law, in general, may be practiced by someone admitted to the bar in any state, in your case I'd recommend that you talk to someone familiar with both (federal) immigration law and the (state) criminal law under which you were convicted.

I would be cautious about travelling again. The last time, they asked you to bring the court papers the next time. It's possible that you've escaped removal proceedings so far just because no one has had the time to delve into your history in enough detail to determine if you are removable. If you travel and bring those papers, you might give them that opportunity. But--again--talk to an attorney. It's possible the risk is, for practical purposes, quite low in your case.

There's something called "cancellation of removal" that can cancel removal proceedings if you do get placed in removal. If you are now a green card holder, you are eligible 7 years after initial admission. The catch--as I understand it--is that the 7 years have to be BEFORE you commit the crime which renders you removable. So if your second shoplifting conviction occurred more than 7 years after your initial admission, you might qualify for cancellation. It is hard to be sure of the timing here, since you were admitted in 2003 and denied naturalization in 2010 for the first two shopliftings--you don't say exactly when in 2003 you were admitted or when in 2010 you were denied--or when the second shoplifting occurred.

I would not recommend applying for naturalization under at least five years after all sentences/probation end for the shoplifting charges--but, again, talk to an attorney.

 

[mongolian]

Clearly you made a mistake--multiple mistakes. Whether it is enough to get you deported, I do not know.

I think you are going to need to speak to an immigration lawyer--especially one who specializes in the immigration consequences of criminal convictions. The problem is that I believe that generally speaking shoplifting is considered a "crime involving moral turpitude" CIMT--and with two or more convictions for CIMT, you would be deportable regardless of the sentence length for each conviction. There might be exceptions--for example if the specific state law you were convicted under included simply forgetting to pay, rather than intentional stealing, it might not be a CIMT--but I believe you would need to speak to an attorney. I doubt anyone on here is qualified to say for sure. Although immigration law, in general, may be practiced by someone admitted to the bar in any state, in your case I'd recommend that you talk to someone familiar with both (federal) immigration law and the (state) criminal law under which you were convicted.

I would be cautious about travelling again. The last time, they asked you to bring the court papers the next time. It's possible that you've escaped removal proceedings so far just because no one has had the time to delve into your history in enough detail to determine if you are removable. If you travel and bring those papers, you might give them that opportunity. But--again--talk to an attorney. It's possible the risk is, for practical purposes, quite low in your case.

There's something called "cancellation of removal" that can cancel removal proceedings if you do get placed in removal. If you are now a green card holder, you are eligible 7 years after initial admission. The catch--as I understand it--is that the 7 years have to be BEFORE you commit the crime which renders you removable. So if your second shoplifting conviction occurred more than 7 years after your initial admission, you might qualify for cancellation. It is hard to be sure of the timing here, since you were admitted in 2003 and denied naturalization in 2010 for the first two shopliftings--you don't say exactly when in 2003 you were admitted or when in 2010 you were denied--or when the second shoplifting occurred.

I would not recommend applying for naturalization under at least five years after all sentences/probation end for the shoplifting charges--but, again, talk to an attorney.

First shoplifting was before I applied for green card 2006, just didn't tell them. Second was right after getting my 10 year card. The USCIS knows about both of these I think because I had to put them on my citizenship application. Although they denied me citizenship. Other theft arrest, well, tickets really, didn't go to jail, were June of 2012, June of 2011, and July of 2012. Green card doesn't have to be renewed until January of 2019 so I'm really not worried too much. Just wanted to know what people thought the multiple crimes law meant.

I'm not really worried anyway. If they were gonna take me away I think they would have done it by now. This country seems more interested in discussing the illegal immigrants anyway so I think once you beat the system and get your green card I am probably safe.

Really I've never seen a country so relaxed on their immigration laws and I have traveled a lot.,

 

[ananga73]

Keep dreaming. People have had their citizenship investigated and revoked for lying to immigration officials after it was discovered several years after the fact.

Nobody has to judge you, the evidence speaks for itself.

First shoplifting was before I applied for green card 2006, just didn't tell them. Second was right after getting my 10 year card. The USCIS knows about both of these I think because I had to put them on my citizenship application. Although they denied me citizenship. Other theft arrest, well, tickets really, didn't go to jail, were June of 2012, June of 2011, and July of 2012. Green card doesn't have to be renewed until January of 2019 so I'm really not worried too much. Just wanted to know what people thought the multiple crimes law meant.

I'm not really worried anyway. If they were gonna take me away I think they would have done it by now. This country seems more interested in discussing the illegal immigrants anyway so I think once you beat the system and get your green card I am probably safe.

Really I've never seen a country so relaxed on their immigration laws and I have traveled a lot.,

 

[CalGreenCard]

Keep dreaming. People have had their citizenship investigated and revoked for lying to immigration officials after it was discovered several years after the fact.

Can you cite an example of a case where someone with citizenship (not just a green card) revoked solely for lying to immigration officials? Usually denaturalization cases involve far more serious charges than just lying to immigration officials--for example Nazi-era war crimes--even if the lying is the official reason for the denaturalization. Look at the following Wikipedia page:

List of denaturalized former citizens of the United States

Virtually all of these cases seem to involve more serious charges than just immigration fraud in their own immigration case. I sometimes hear it said that people can be denaturalized just because they lied but no one has ever cited a clear example that I can recall--there are always more serious charges involved.

In the case of the original poster, mongolian, s/he is however NOT a citizen--so this discussion is not yet relevant to his/her situation. It is much easier to lose a green card than to lose citizenship. I think that mongolian did "come clean" in the sense of revealing all past arrests in the N-400 case. Of course, that N-400 was denied. But I do think if mongolian were, in future, to submit an N-400 that were to be approved, Mongolian's citizenship would be safe. As far as I understand it, no criminal activity is being hidden from USCIS at this point. Of course it is still a big "if" whether mongolian will be able to get to that point.

 

[CalGreenCard]

First shoplifting was before I applied for green card 2006, just didn't tell them. Second was right after getting my 10 year card. The USCIS knows about both of these I think because I had to put them on my citizenship application. Although they denied me citizenship. Other theft arrest, well, tickets really, didn't go to jail, were June of 2012, June of 2011, and July of 2012. Green card doesn't have to be renewed until January of 2019 so I'm really not worried too much. Just wanted to know what people thought the multiple crimes law meant.

I'm not really worried anyway. If they were gonna take me away I think they would have done it by now. This country seems more interested in discussing the illegal immigrants anyway so I think once you beat the system and get your green card I am probably safe.

Really I've never seen a country so relaxed on their immigration laws and I have traveled a lot.,

The three most recent incidents are probably less serious from an immigration perspective because they occurred more than 7 years after your initial entry--hence in a "cancellation of removal" case they would have a chance of being forgiven. The difficulty is that you have two potential CIMT's within your first 7 years in the US--unless you can somehow make the case that at least one of the first two cases does not rise to the level of a CIMT.

I agree with you that it is unlikely that immigration will aggressively come after you at this point. However, I definitely feel that you are at risk if you do anything to get on their radar--which includes travel outside of the country, further legal problems leading to an immigration hold, applying (in 2019) for a renewal green card, or applying again for citizenship. I don't agree, though, that because they haven't acted against you yet that they won't. There are many, many examples of old legal problems suddenly causing problems with immigration years later--even if the person has travelled extensively in the interim without trouble. The last time you entered, perhaps the officer didn't have enough information--in the short time s/he had with you--to determine for sure if you are inadmissible. Or maybe you were just a low enforcement priority. You might not be so lucky next time.

I personally think you should be applying for naturalization around 2019--when you have to renew your green card anyways. There is a risk that you will be placed in removal proceedings but that risk also applies if you renew your green card--and once you naturalize, assuming an honest naturalization application, your status will be forever safe. But again, you should talk to attorney who can advise you on the risks.

 

[brb2]

I would not recommend applying for citizenship now. If you have a clean record until 2018, it is highly likely you will be denied. On a side note, the Great Wall of China is attributed to your country.

 

[mongolian]

I would not recommend applying for citizenship now. If you have a clean record until 2018, it is highly likely you will be denied. On a side note, the Great Wall of China is attributed to your country.

Why would I be denied if my little crimes were 6 years old? I thought they only went back 5 years?

 

[mongolian]

Why would I be denied if my little crimes were 6 years old? I thought they only went back 5 years?

Thank you for your input (although I don't agree with some of your judgements based on my personal experience). I was just asking if anyone knew anything about the "multiple crimes" thing and if they each had to be one year jail sentences - or even if they had to be one year "possible" jail sentences. Only my first two have been that and the other three were just fines.