Citizenship - Over 6months stay outside US

Sorry to say, but I very much doubt you'll be approved with this long an absence, even if you do have an "understanding" IO. Plain facts of the matter are that your primary residence was overseas for 2 years - you not only lived there, but worked there for a non-US company.

Your visits back to the US count for very little at all, and certainly do not put you in the "under 6 month" category; each time you re-entered the US, you already had intent to return to your job abroad. Family medical problem, re-entry permits and the like, are not sufficient to preserve residence for naturalization purposes.

Put bluntly, you cannot simply buy US citizenship by purchasing a return airline ticket every 5 months. IOs are not so short sighted that they can't see you were trying to play around the rules... sorry.
 
boatbod said:
Sorry to say, but I very much doubt you'll be approved with this long an absence, even if you do have an "understanding" IO. Plain facts of the matter are that your primary residence was overseas for 2 years - you not only lived there, but worked there for a non-US company.

Your visits back to the US count for very little at all, and certainly do not put you in the "under 6 month" category; each time you re-entered the US, you already had intent to return to your job abroad. Family medical problem, re-entry permits and the like, are not sufficient to preserve residence for naturalization purposes.
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Sure. But I did have intent to return back within 6 months when I left the US each and every single time. The first time I thought my problems would be solved within 6 months and I would be back here for good. The second time I thought the same thing and so on.

Put bluntly, you cannot simply buy US citizenship by purchasing a return airline ticket every 5 months. IOs are not so short sighted that they can't see you were trying to play around the rules... sorry.
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I did not purchase a round-trip ticket from the USA to purchase US citizenship as you put it. I purchased it because I thought I would be back for good in 6 months. And what's the harm in genuinely trying to satisfy the rules or obey the law?
 
immigrateful said:
If I applied for and obtained a re-entry permit, I do not see why I abandoned my residence.
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You didn't abandon your residence; you interrupted it, making it non-continuous. Re-entry permits preserve your green card for trips of up to 2 years, but they DO NOT preserve continuous residence for citizenship purposes. The criteria is more strict for citizenship, and there is actually a separate form for preserving continuous residence for citizenship during long overseas trips (N-470), which you did not file.

Anyway, go ahead and apply if you want. It's your time and money you'll be wasting. You'll get rejected, but you'll be eligible to reapply when you have built up enough continuous residence.
 
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Hi,

I am green Card holder from 2003. I will be eligible for submitting the N400 in Dec.
Last three years i have been making freq trip Outside USA.
Here are my trips
1. 5 1/2 months trip in 2005 ( apr - Oct)
2. 4 months trip in 2006 ( Jun - Oct)
3. 2 months trip in 2007 May.

I'm also planning to make one more trip of three months from Sep -Dec and apply N400 in a week after arrival. Will it be a problem. I have permanent job in US and they are sending me for 3 months trip outside US

Can apply for citizenship. We IO question my Intend.I have moved out of my apartment and gave my friend's address as mailing address.

Please Advice.
 
Jackolantern said:
Anyway, go ahead and apply if you want. It's your time and money you'll be wasting. You'll get rejected, but you'll be eligible to reapply when you have built up enough continuous residence.
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Thanks to your posts (and boatboad's), my level of awareness about this has improved and I can now grasp that there is a likelihood that the application might be denied. Your arguments resonate well especially after reading the example from the adjudicators manual you posted.

However, I have already applied and I will stay put. I am not withdrawing my application just yet.

While I understand the points you have made, I have been back in the USA for more than a 1 year & 4 months. It is worth a gamble to go ahead with the interview and see what happens.

Naturalization is a subjective matter and the IO has plenty of leeway in making a decision. The IO also has a lot of discretionary authority. I will explain my situation to the IO and I think I still have a very good chance of approval - not a definite rejection as you and boatbod are suggesting.

In the worst case scenario, I will be poorer by a few dollars and will have to go through the whole process about 1 year 6-7 months after the interview. Not a big deal in my book.

Thanks for all the information though!

I hope this thread is useful for future readers and readers in a similar situation.
 
Immigrateful,
This part is correct - "Re-entry permits preserve your green card for trips of up to 2 years, but they DO NOT preserve continuous residence for citizenship purposes"

IMO - you should wait to build up continuous residence and then apply.
But ofcourse, it is completely your choice. If you feel, it is worth trying, take a shot at it, and if things work out then good for you. Else, you can always try again later.

Edit: Just read that you already applied, so good luck to you.
 
m_abraham12 said:
hello everyone,

I am panicked, as I am going tru similar situation.

I took several trips outside US in last 5yrs but always less than 6 months. My case is borderline with only 32 months of stay in the US in last 5yrs. My husband stay in London & i have been visiting him since i got married in 2003.

I applied in march...As u can imagine i have the toughest interview in June. I never knew an IO can be this rude and mean...but i guess they have given all the rights to behave that way..she was planning on denying my case right away but i guess since i havent break my cont residency in the US they gave me another chance to prove my residency in US for the time i was outside. She called me a visitor and i cud hear her explaining the same to the supervisor. I think its the supervisor who asked her to give me another chance..My second interview was few days ago...

This time i went with a lawyer and luckily it was a diff IO and she was decent enough not to yell and be rude...I guess maybe coz i had the lawyer with me.. but i havent got the result yet as she transfer my file to the supervisor with a recommendation for approval, she says...I am told tht i will get a decision letter via post in couple of weeks.

After reading all these threads i dont know wht the outcome is going to be. I am sure they are aware that my intention is to become a citizen to bring my husband to the US which is true. They DO NOT CARE about the agony you go tru being away from your spouse or kids for years.

Well I learned my lesson or still learning and i am telling my friends in similar situation not to take frequent extended trip outside US until they get their citizenship.

Do you think i will receive the letter soon as the IO informed me or is it gonna be a denial letter in few months time???
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m_abraham12,

First of all, do not panic. Nothing can be a clear indication than the fact that your file has been transferred to another IO with a recommendation for approval.

This forum and the Internet is a great place to gather vast amounts of accurate information for our situation. However, you have to sift through this information and co-relate with your individual scenario.

There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to naturalization.

If some of the posts here sound scary to you - just ignore them. It is not worth loosing sleep over, especially in your case.
 
Citizen_Dec2007 said:
Hi,

I am green Card holder from 2003. I will be eligible for submitting the N400 in Dec.
Last three years i have been making freq trip Outside USA.
Here are my trips
1. 5 1/2 months trip in 2005 ( apr - Oct)
2. 4 months trip in 2006 ( Jun - Oct)
3. 2 months trip in 2007 May.

I'm also planning to make one more trip of three months from Sep -Dec and apply N400 in a week after arrival. Will it be a problem. I have permanent job in US and they are sending me for 3 months trip outside US

Can apply for citizenship. We IO question my Intend.I have moved out of my apartment and gave my friend's address as mailing address.

Please Advice.
Click to expand...

You have nothing to worry about. Check if you are eligible to apply for N-470 to preserve days. But it might actually be a waste since there is nothing abnormal with your case. You have a very strong and a very normal case.
 
to all those traveling

I still insist on you taking a second look at my thread: http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?p=1763785#post1763785
Among other issues with INS denying my naturalization, I have the lack of cont. res. as well. The general rule of thumb that INS follows is that you have to stay in US 6 mo + 1 day out of every calendar year, or out of every sequence of 365 days in order to be "under the radar and not even be questioned. If, for some good, well documented reason, you stayed longer than 6 mo abroad, but for one continuous trip only -- you can still argue your case very well and win. There are other exceptions as well, HOWEVER, your chances of a successful argument, and, therefore, a victory dwindle in geometric progression as you steer away from the "6 mo + 1 day" rule. Your case for Continuous Residence is almost futile if you go abroad for > 183 days more frequently than every 6 months. (Please, do the math yourself if you have questions, don't ask for explanations on the #'s, please.)
These rules apply to Cont. Residency regardless of what you're applying for.
 
Well, it is more than obvious that each case is completely unique from each other, as unique a everybody else. If everybody in the planet would do/think/react the same way, the world would be a very boring place to live in. It is hard to tell from each case what the outcome will be and what the IO will think and do at the time of the interview. The first thing I did when I started writing in this forum was to read the "DISCLAIMER" on the top of it, it really helps a lot understanding it. Eventually, the last decision will be in the hands of the IO and/or his/her supervisor. I guess IO's are trained to treat you more with empathy than sympathy and that the whole reason for the interview is to listen to you and make a judgement based on your case and your specific situation.

I consider myself having a 50/50 chance to get an approval/denial due to my like 700 days (or something like that) outside the U.S. in the past 5 years, even though I have only left the country for 14 days (since March 04) for the past 3 1/2 years and I've never been in trouble with the law. This may sound embarrasing but during those days I simply lived off my parent's income. I don't have a home outside the U.S., I don't have nor had a job outside the U.S., I don't have any ties with my native country except for a $1 coin I keep in my office and show to my fellow workers.

I've read some posts of people that simply had everything in "order" and some of the "gurus" of this forum told them that they would be ok and then got a denial, it is simply that easy.

If my case gets an approval then "C00L", if it gets a denial, then..."let's move on" and let's reapply in March 2009 (time goes by pretty fast). At least we have to give it a chance. Sometimes things can make a difference at the time of the interview, sometimes it doesn't. And the day my interview arrives (who knows when), whatever the result is, I'll leave that office smiling :)

It is the beauty of things!
 
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Citizen_Dec2007 said:
1. 5 1/2 months trip in 2005 ( apr - Oct)
2. 4 months trip in 2006 ( Jun - Oct)
3. 2 months trip in 2007 May.

I'm also planning to make one more trip of three months from Sep -Dec and apply N400 in a week after arrival.
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I don't see any reason for them to deny you on the basis of continuous residence. If all those trips were taken back-to-back with only one or two weeks in the US between them, that's when you'd have a problem.
 
Citizen_Dec2007 said:
Hi,

I am green Card holder from 2003. I will be eligible for submitting the N400 in Dec.
Last three years i have been making freq trip Outside USA.
Here are my trips
1. 5 1/2 months trip in 2005 ( apr - Oct)
2. 4 months trip in 2006 ( Jun - Oct)
3. 2 months trip in 2007 May.

I'm also planning to make one more trip of three months from Sep -Dec and apply N400 in a week after arrival. Will it be a problem. I have permanent job in US and they are sending me for 3 months trip outside US

Can apply for citizenship. We IO question my Intend.I have moved out of my apartment and gave my friend's address as mailing address.

Please Advice.
Click to expand...

I very much doubt you have anything to worry about. Your travel profile was quite similar to mine, and I was approved without any difficult questioning. (Over the course of 3 years, I spent 5-6 months each winter sailing in the Caribbean, then returned to the US and worked each summer.)
 
fjmb23 said:
I consider myself having a 50/50 chance to get an approval/denial due to my like 700 days (or something like that) outside the U.S.
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fjmb23 - What was your travel profile and where is your interview going to be? Can you keep us posted on how it goes?
 
Yes after 6 months away you need to prove you are definatly maintaining residency in the US a re-entry permit isn't. The other thing mentioned was working outside of the US. That in itself is viewed as abandonment of the Green Card as well. Not sure what they may do now in that case. They may let that go and give you a break, or you might be getting more news along with your denial letter (a deportation slip).

In the eyes of the INS (re-entry or not) you moved and worked overseas which clearly shows no intent on residing in the US.

Just hope it's only a denial letter and then if so. Remain in the US till you can get the requirements set to re-apply in the future...
 
warlord said:
Yes after 6 months away you need to prove you are definatly maintaining residency in the US a re-entry permit isn't. The other thing mentioned was working outside of the US. That in itself is viewed as abandonment of the Green Card as well. Not sure what they may do now in that case. They may let that go and give you a break, or you might be getting more news along with your denial letter (a deportation slip).
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This is wrong and misleading information. Using words such as deportation so loosely and can potentially set off panic amongst users of this forum who are in a similar situation.

The green card and permanent residency are terms that are used interchangeably.

If one has a re-entry permit and has taken up a job abroad then her/his case is as robust as a person who never made a single trip outside of the USA after becoming a permanent resident.
 
fjmb23 said:
I consider myself having a 50/50 chance to get an approval/denial due to my like 700 days (or something like that) outside the U.S. in the past 5 years, even though I have only left the country for 14 days (since March 04) for the past 3 1/2 years and I've never been in trouble with the law.
Click to expand...
More like a 1/99 chance for approval/denial. Your 700 days away broke continuous residence, and once breaking it you have to rebuild 4 years and a day of continuous residence to become eligible. You are not far from 4 years, so if you have not already applied just wait 6 months and you should be OK.
 
immigrateful said:
This is wrong and misleading information. Using words such as deportation so loosely and can potentially set off panic amongst users of this forum who are in a similar situation.

The green card and permanent residency are terms that are used interchangeably.

If one has a re-entry permit and has taken up a job abroad then her/his case is as robust as a person who never made a single trip outside of the USA after becoming a permanent resident.
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Actually it's the truth that issues like this HAVE happend. You don't want to screw around with such things like that. People have fallen victim to circumstances where they have been deported for 'abandoning' their green cards without them realizing it.

You have to look at the facts and all possibilities when dealing with issues such as this. Sugar coating the N-400 process and having people find themselves in trouble is not the way to help. People and especially newer people need to be aware of situations that have been problematic in the past.

Now like I said it most likely not that, but you never want to assume anything. Most cases they seem to over look things like that, however, there are some that haven't.

You need to look at all sides...
 
warlord said:
Actually it's the truth that issues like this HAVE happend.
...Most cases they seem to over look things like that, however, there are some that haven't.
You need to look at all sides...
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We sure need to look at all sides but what you are talking about is for a minority of the cases. My guesstimate would be less than 0.1% of applications are denied for this reason.

Naturalization is a subjective matter and the IO has plenty of discretionary leeway in making a decision. IOs are not out there to get you. They do not look at N-400 applications from that negative perspective. The are out there to facilitate the naturalization process while making sure there is not a blatant violation or abuse of any of the provisions.

Bottomline: If you have not committed fraud and have genuinely made an attempt to follow the law & USCIS rules and procedures (you need to have documentation supporting this), you should come out OK 9 out of 10 times even if not 100% of the things in your application are according to the rule book.
 
immigrateful:

I posted a thread about my travel profile: http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=259484

Check it out, you actually replied to it.

Jacklantern:

I already applied, and according to your statement the probabilities of getting an approval/denial are the same, seems I won't get approved nor denied at the same time. It just sounds kind of confusing since I thought (so did a lawyer I consulted too) that you had to be in the U.S. for 2.5 years out of the last 5 years (can't be out more then aprox. 900 days or so). I've been a LPR since 1996, but hey, I appreciate your reply.
 
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