Citizenship for newborn USC / IC ?

[nastran]

We have a six months old US born daughter. We have not applied for citizenship for her. We plan to R2I within next two years.

We are debating weather we should apply for USC OR Indian citzenship for her. Everyone I know has taken USC for their US born kids.

I was thinking if we apply for Indian citizenship now, the daughter can apply for USC when she is 18 yrs old, if she wants USC at that point. It should work otherway round also.

Are there any issues related to taking Indian citizenship or USC at this point? pros cons?

Will appreciate any feedback.

 

[sam_c]

Your daughter is a US citizen

Your daughter became a US citizen the day she was born. That's in the US constitution - citizenship is acquired at birth. When you say "everyone you know has taken USC for their US born kids" you are obviously unaware that it is not a matter of choice - they (the kids) are all US citizens automatically and there's no application procedure. You can go ahead and get her US passport.

You will not be able to apply for another country's citizenship on her behalf unless that country allows dual citizenship. You also cannot renounce your daughter's US citizenship on her behalf - she can only do it herself voluntarily once she is 18. If she does do so whether or not she can acquire Indian citizenship at that time depends on that country's law. Remember that she is a US citizen and will not be treated any differently than other US citizens for purpose of acquiring Indian citizenship just because her parents are from India.

Sam

p.s. I'm just curious to know - what did you think your daughter's citizenship was all these months?

We have a six months old US born daughter. We have not applied for citizenship for her. We plan to R2I within next two years.

We are debating weather we should apply for USC OR Indian citzenship for her. Everyone I know has taken USC for their US born kids.

I was thinking if we apply for Indian citizenship now, the daughter can apply for USC when she is 18 yrs old, if she wants USC at that point. It should work otherway round also.

Are there any issues related to taking Indian citizenship or USC at this point? pros cons?

Will appreciate any feedback.

 

[sam_c]

There is nothing to apply. She is a US citizen due to being born in the US. As such, she has to have a US passport to leave and enter the US.

Rawana:

I understand that India requires US citizens to have a visa to enter. Please be sure to get a visitor visa for your daughter before flying to India. If you're planning to return for good as you mentioned, you may want to check the Indian immigration law with regard to permanent residence for foreigners (i.e. US citizens like your daughter). I believe they give some kind of certificate which is equivalent to a life long visa.

Sam

 

[sam_c]

Correct in almost all cases. Diplomats' kids are excluded, and OP didn't mention his visa status here.

Yes, I'm aware of that exception but I figured that any diplomat would be familiar with the basic tenets of US immigration law (in fact they would need to be) and would therefore not be asking this question.

Wrong. OP, visist Indian embassy website. You could register to get IN PP within a year if you haven't applied for USC PP for your daughter.

I am not familiar with Indian immigration law or the procedures involved, but are you suggesting that they would give the OP's daughter an Indian passport just because she doesn't have a US PP? After all she is a USC regardless of whether she has a US PP or not and I am told by my friends that India does not have dual citizenship.
Again, I do not know Indian law - I am just surprised about your statement that's all. No offense intended.

Sam

 

[AlexanderG]

Rawana, you may also find this reference useful : http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/faq.htm#q24

(incl. FAQ # 25 and 26)

Alex

 

[tamtom]

We have a six months old US born daughter. We have not applied for citizenship for her. We plan to R2I within next two years.

Rawana,

We are in a similar situation with a us born daugher (one parent is US citizen, one parent is Indian citizen). We applied for and received an Indian passport for her (stating on the application that she involuntarily acquired US citizenship at birth).

The main disadvantage of the Indian passport is that even after you take it, the US still considers the child to be a US citizen. So it's not clear how the child can make a trip to India and back on the Indian passport (because the US will expect the child to use a US passport for that).

Please send us a private message and we can tell you many more details about this problem and our experiences.

Regards,

Tamtom

 

[tamtom]

Once your daughter leaves the US, she can't get a visa to travel back to the US. Once she turns 18, she could declare to the US Consul to relinguish USC, and get a visa. Anytime before that, you could apply for a US PP while outside the US, and in that case you have to surrender her IN PP.

That appears to be the de-facto status quo. But we need to make a trip with our daughter to India and back in the near future, and we are determined not to give up her Indian citizenship to do so, if at all possible. We have not exhausted all the administrative options yet, so the story isn't over.

It's been a lonely thing so far, with most Indian parents telling us they chose the US passport for their kids, and even Indian consular officers asking us why we want to keep our child's Indian citizenship! Sometimes we wonder whether we are the only ones who care about this.

So, please post here or send us a private message if you are also affected by this problem.

Regards,

Tamtom

 

[tamtom]

Getting back to Rawana's original question, it is clearly better to get your US-born baby an Indian passport first instead of a US one. Here are some advantages to doing so:

(1) If you get your baby a US passport it will lose Indian citizenship, but if you get your baby an Indian passport it will NOT lose US citizenship.

(2) If you get your baby an Indian passport first, then get the US passport later (cancelling the Indian one), then your baby will have once been recognized as an Indian citizen. This will give the child benefits under Indian immigration law (e.g., later reacquiring Indian citizenship by registration, the residence period required is only one year instead of five years, also baby's grandchildren/your great-grandchildren will be eligible for PIO/OCI).

As for the travel problem I described, there is still some scope in the two countries' laws to fix it. But even if not, you can always switch to a US passport just before you need to make the trip.

Hope this helps,

Tamtom

 

[sg_orl]

It's not necessarily better to get an Indian passport for your US born child. Once you get an Indian passport for your child, s/he can NOT use it to enter or leave US with the Indian passport. People used to do this in the past if after the birth of their child, thery were permanently going back to India. Getting the US passport for a child and maintain it in India and worrying about the registration of your child as a foreigner was a hassel. But the down side was child could not travel back to US. US law require its citizens to leave and enter using only US passports. US law does not care what passport or papers you use to enter or leave another country.

Now with parent's being Indian citizens at some point of time in the past, your child can get OCI along with the US passport, and travel and even live in India indefinitely. If you still want to get an Indian citizenship for your child, then after your return, and by following the steps listed in OCI, you can apply for full Indian citizenship for your child. So I fail to see reasoning to try to maintain Indian citizenship even when existing indian laws don't support such efforts. If you push it, you may it you may create unnecessary problems for yourself, and possibly jeopardize child's status. You child is a born US citizen, let him/her be that way.

 

[tamtom]

It's not necessarily better to get an Indian passport for your US born child. Once you get an Indian passport for your child, s/he can NOT use it to enter or leave US with the Indian passport.

As I said in the previous post, if you are concerned about this, you can first get the child an Indian passport, and then later cancel it and get it a US passport before you need to travel abroad.

Now with parent's being Indian citizens at some point of time in the past, your child can get OCI along with the US passport, and travel and even live in India indefinitely.

Yes, but with the child himself or herself being an Indian citizen at some point of time in the past, the benefits are still more, as I pointed out in the previous post.

If you still want to get an Indian citizenship for your child, then after your return, and by following the steps listed in OCI, you can apply for full Indian citizenship for your child.

When you apply to recover full Indian citizenship for your child after having lost it by taking a US passport, India will then expect you to renounce the child's US citizenship, and the US won't accept that. This could lead to an even more messy situation.

You child is a born US citizen, let him/her be that way.

Yes, but nothing you choose about the passports can affect that. In fact, nobody has yet told us how a minor child can get rid of US citizenship!

Hope this helps,

Tamtom

 

[sg_orl]

I am not really sure what additional/FULL benefits of Indian citizenship for a child of < 18 years, born in US, but living in India you're referring to.

OCI does not allow you to vote, get a govt. job, or run for elective office. All of these things are immaterial for a child < 18 years of age. I will grant you that child's grantchildren will qualiify OCI if the child holds an Indian passport now. Who knows what the laws will be two generation from now? You may actually have a full dual citizenship by that time. I know it's a personal decision, but getting an Indian passport seems more for a sentimental reason for the parents now a days rather that a pragmatic decision.

One of my friends did this over 10 years back, but at that time there was no OCI option available, and dealing with Indian bureaucrats to report the registration was a hassel so he decided to take their daughter back to India on the Indian passport. Right now he is thinking about getting her a US passport and OCI. Once the child becomes 18, you cannot claim to be in de-facto status anymore.

 

[tamtom]

I am not really sure what additional/FULL benefits of Indian citizenship for a child of < 18 years, born in US, but living in India you're referring to.

For starters, the OCI status is not constitutionally protected and the Indian government can easily change the rights entailed by it at any time, or even eliminate the whole OCI program entirely. The same is not true of Indian citizenship.

Once the child becomes 18, you cannot claim to be in de-facto status anymore.

It is not only de-facto. Indian law itself provides that an Indian citizen child who has involuntarily acquired a foreign citizenship needs to renounce the foreign one only at 18. So a person who is doing this is in status, period.

Hope this helps,

Tamtom

 

[nastran]

US/India citizenship for newborn

Hi Tamtom,

Your posts regarding US/India citizenship for newborn are very informative.


What si syour e-mail id?

I can be reached at: wairagade at hotmail


.....................................................

Rawana,

We are in a similar situation with a us born daugher (one parent is US citizen,
He



one parent is Indian citizen). We applied for and received an Indian passport for her (stating on the application that she involuntarily acquired US citizenship at birth).

The main disadvantage of the Indian passport is that even after you take it, the US still considers the child to be a US citizen. So it's not clear how the child can make a trip to India and back on the Indian passport (because the US will expect the child to use a US passport for that).

Please send us a private message and we can tell you many more details about this problem and our experiences.

Regards,

Tamtom

 

[tamtom]

Hi Tamtom,

Your posts regarding US/India citizenship for newborn are very informative.

What si syour e-mail id?

I have sent you an email. Meanwhile, anyone can contact me by clicking on my profile on this forum and using the links to send me an email or private message.

Regards,

Tamtom