Citizenship denied

[Al Southner]

Guys,

I am inclined to concur with JCash here, the OP knew the measure of the crime he committed, but he refused to be straight with the IO. Lying under oath is a crime also known as perjury. In most cases, the govt won't pursue crime involving perjury unless you are Scooter Libby... I would advise the OP to save his money and wait for 5 years to reapply, seeking a motion to reconsider would only help a lawyer seeking to make a quick buck in this terrible economy, but when the dust settle, you will be a few thousands shot with no blue book...

It is hard to believe that OP doesn't remember being FP for the bad check. It is a faulty assumption that "in your eyes, I was never behind bar" in practice it is true, but in the eyes of the law (which is what matters), it is a different reality. I am not sure which state you live in, in most states is both a civil and criminal matter, which can be punishable by jail time and fine, plus it's a felony offense. Lawyers are there to challenge the misuse of laws by enforcing authority, NOT to undo the damage done by your failure to disclose this and provide court documentation for independent analysis. Check fraud is one of the major crimes in this country, have you ever received an email from some stranger asking you to send them your name and home address? In return, they will overnight you a check, you cash it against your bank account and send them a portion in a money order of what you cashed? In most case, will mail you about $5000 and ask you to keep $2000, mail him a money order of $3000? People who are too stupid to think properly end up being sued by banks and criminally prosecuted by states for check fraud...

Indulge yourself and see what could have happened to you had the state decided to put more teeth into your butt...

http://www.ckfraud.org/penalties.html#civil

 

[sanjoseaug20]

How did you conclude that she was arrested and finger printed? My understanding is, she meant that the FP back ground check showed she was arrested in her past, not the same as arrested and finger printed at the same time. Nobody here knows except her what exactly happened at that time. It's ridiculous to indulge in wild imaginations and accuse the applicant of something. That's not what we do here. All we can do is advice based on what she wrote here, not what she could possibly be hiding.

The OP says "the fingerprints show tha I was arrested" ... it could mean something else for sure, but prima facie ... the fingerprints matched something in the database.

I had a chat on a different thread yesterday about disclosing and non disclosing tickets ... this is a prime example of what should be disclosed. You can not hide this one. There can be no confusion. The OP has left the board it looks like but could prove us wrong. However, FBI does not come to your house and get fingerprints. Most likely the OP went to the station. The money must have been substantial, or a pattern of repeated bounced checks to same or different companies. This is something people should remember ... and not hide.

Others have given good advice on next steps, and I will just concur.

 

[Busco]

Let me be the devil's advocate here and say that in a previous job I used to see people, many of them small business owners, that when given a check with NSF would go straight to the sheriff's office and file a report to have the person who wrote the check arrested. So OP could well be just guilty of writing an NSF check ..... on the other hand he/she may be guilty as sin....but let's give people the benefit of the doubt.
Writing an NSF check IS an offense but just like someone mentioned earlier s***t happens. I personally have never bounced a check but have seen lots and lots of regular well meaning people who simply didn't know how to balance a check book and ended up in big trouble for an NSF check.

 

[WBH]

At least the OP should ask what the INO mean by arrest. He/she should have answered:"I am not sure If I were arrested. But I was taken to a police stattion etc". He/she simply answer No more than once giving impression
he/she just wanted to answer No to hide this fact.

When you write a bad check, the recipient did not really know whether
you had the intent to cheat or just do not know you have insufficient fund.
The recipient does not know so they assume worst and report teh to police. The police does not know and have to arrest you. This is especially true if the recipient is not the one like landlord who can easily contact you.

 

[So_Special]

People, the answer is right there in front you. The OP was in fact arrested and tried to circumvent the situation by denying that she was. Read this part again "I had a situation 4 years ago,[read:I know I was involved in a criminal act] with a bad check. NOW, I understand that I was arrested,[read: I was arrested, fingerprinted] but to my eyes I never was behind bars, I went to paid a fee,[read: admitted guilt and paid fine] but I never thought I was arrested, because I never see myself behind bars,Maybe so, but you were arrested and lie about it to an IO under oath

Understand that in no way am I trying to be condescending but the OP is presumably not an idiot and should know the difference between arrested and jailed. Also, even in his/her post, he/she is still not coming clean leaving most of us to "guess' whats going on in her case. It is what it is.

 

[kailashrathi]

What is "OP" ? Opressed Person??

 

[WBH]

Arrested means you were holding for certain period of time inside the Police Station or other law enforcement agency. They took you from place A and brought you to place B which is police station or other law enforcment agency.

The people who are cited on the spot of offense can face a dillema too.
If they were not taken into a police station and were just detained on the spot and given a citation and were let go. What should they answer? It is easy to answer on N400 becaus that question place arrested, detained, cited, charrged" together. But if during the interview, IO just ask: "Have you been
arrested?", you can not simply just answer NO. Maybe so far as IO is concerned, you were arrested and booking procedure was just done
outside the police station but your background check just show up no differently. So if the IO ask:"Have you eben arrested?" you better
answer indirectly "I was cited"

 

[Al Southner]

Let me be the devil's advocate here and say that in a previous job I used to see people, many of them small business owners, that when given a check with NSF would go straight to the sheriff's office and file a report to have the person who wrote the check arrested. So OP could well be just guilty of writing an NSF check ..... on the other hand he/she may be guilty as sin....but let's give people the benefit of the doubt.
Writing an NSF check IS an offense but just like someone mentioned earlier s***t happens. I personally have never bounced a check but have seen lots and lots of regular well meaning people who simply didn't know how to balance a check book and ended up in big trouble for an NSF check.

Busco,

You are clearly confusing issues here I suppose. Writing a bad check on its own isn't a crime, the failure to make good on that check is what creates a criminal element. For example, if you write me a check for $5,000 and that check is bounced, and I indicate to you that it wasn't good, you have to immediately remedy the situation or I have grounds to go to the sheriff's office to file a criminal complaint. However, if you make good on the check, no criminal act has been committed and we will give you a benefit of doubt.

This when it becomes a crime from the get go: You write me a check for $5,000 on Chase bank account, but your closed that account 6 months ago, which makes it a criminal act the moment you sign and tender it over to me. However, if this is not a first offense, or if the bad check was written intentionally, knowing that it would not clear, then probation or even some time as a guest of the state may be in their future... It is against the law to write bad checks, writing multiple bad check with an existing bank account creates a basis for prosecution by the state. CA is famous to chewing and spitting bad check bouncers...

 

[Al Southner]

What is "OP" ? Opressed Person??

Yes, the Oppressed Person in immigration proceedings....

 

[WBH]

How can you be so sure that your application will be denied? From what I understand, at the interview you gave them your disposition papers that showed you had paid and cleared your dues. Did the IO then mark "Yes" to the arrest questions in your application? You have also submitted all the paperwork regarding the arrest at the interview, Right? In your N-652 form that they give after interview has the officer checked that "a decision cannot be made now and will be sent to you". If that is the case you may still be approved.

I don't know what exactly happened. It could be

(1) the OP was taken by police but let ago after he/she "paid the fee" to the
recipient of the bad check. No charge was filed.

(2) The OP was taken by police the the charge was filed and he/she "paid
the fee" to the court as fine for offense. This should be done on several
days because no one should pay crminal fine on the same day without
a court date".

If (1) is the case, then the OP can still argue he is totally confused about
defintion of arrest.

If (2) is the case and the OP answer NO to all those questions, then apparently he/she tried to hide it because even if you think ayou were not arrested, you should know you were cited or charged. But I wonder if he/she even brought court disposition to interview how come he/she could answer all NO? Just to get prepared if the IO find out?

 

[WhichWay2Go]

What is "OP" ? Opressed Person??

Not sure if you are joking or not, but "OP" means the Original Poster. The person who started this thread.

As in, "...the Original Poster (OP) said he did not think he had been arrested..."

"OP" can also mean Original Post when referring to something contained in that first Post by the OP.

As in, "...but in the Original Post it shows "...behind bar..."

 

[WBH]

You are clearly confusing issues here I suppose. Writing a bad check on its own isn't a crime, the failure to make good on that check is what creates a criminal element. For example, if you write me a check for $5,000 and that check is bounced, and I indicate to you that it wasn't good, you have to immediately remedy the situation or I have grounds to go to the sheriff's office to file a criminal complaint. However, if you make good on the check, no criminal act has been committed and we will give you a benefit of doubt.

This happen between aquaintaances or regular customer and bill
collectors. If you write a bad check to the phone company, they can returned it with a request for you to send another one. If you borrow
100bucks from your coworker and later write $ 100 check to pay it back
but teh check is bad, then yoru cowaorker can remind you. But
if you write such a bad check to a retailer etc, the retailor
may not even know how to contact you and may get extremely mad
especially it often happen to them or not. So their first action
can be just to call the police.

 

[Al Southner]

This happen between aquaintaances or regular customer and bill
collectors. If you write a bad check to the phone company, they can returned it with a request for you to send another one. If you borrow
100bucks from your coworker and later write $ 100 check to pay it back
but teh check is bad, then yoru cowaorker can remind you. But
if you write such a bad check to a retailer etc, the retailor
may not even know how to contact you and may get extremely mad
especially it often happen to them or not. So their first action
can be just to call the police.

The retailer can contact you by mailing a letter to the address listed on the top left of your check. Almost all stores, a valid drivers license matching the address on the check is required to pay with a check. So, your notion that they will not have a way to notify you is nutty... Also, a phone number should be listed on the check, which they will try first and mail you a letter asking you to make good on the check, before sinking teeth into you via law enforcement... If it is a friend who can't wait to call the police, this might happen to you after taking a shower owing someone some money...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGYXLVFZT2I

 

[WBH]

The retailer can contact you by mailing a letter to the address listed on the top left of your check. Almost all stores, a valid drivers license matching the address on the check is required to pay with a check. So, your notion that they will not have a way to notify you is nutty... [/url]

They can if they want. But I can understand they can be very angry
sometimes. Let's assume you are such a small shop owner, and every
day you have to clear several bad checks sooner or later you will
lose your patient and temper. You better place a warning sign
on your shop :"Anyone who write a bad check will be prosecuted
and noncitizens are subject deported or denial of immigration benefits".

 

[Al Southner]

They can if they want. But I can understand they can be very angry
sometimes. Let's assume you are such a small shop owner, and every
day you have to clear several bad checks sooner or later you will
lose your patient and temper. You better place a warning sign
on your shop :"Anyone who write a bad check will be prosecuted
and noncitizens are subject deported or denial of immigration benefits".

WBH,

Here is my recommendation. Find a corner bakery shop where you live, buy yourself a DC Chicken Salad on rye bread, this will help you a great deal!!! I find that in some of your arguments, the logic is in the toilet, and I regret responding to you at times. So, I am bear the responsibility at times. I am not aware of any small shop owner accepting checks from any patron, and putting up a sign like that will surely drive his/her business elsewhere, because the sign has a discriminatory tone to it. If a small shop accept checks from patrons, the owners are idiots...

 

[richmondva]

I wonder if the OP has deserted this thread?

Menita:
Don't worry! We are all nice folks out here and most of us will try to help once we know the exact situation you had faced. It would be nice if you could post the arrest and interview process in detail (as I had requested earlier) and maybe we could guide you appropriately and not just speculate.

I am surprised we haven't got a comment from Bob on this one yet. Bob, can something be done for OP or is s/he in real soup and has no choice or do you have insufficient information to comment?

 

[WBH]

WBH,

Here is my recommendation. Find a corner bakery shop where you live, buy yourself a DC Chicken Salad on rye bread, this will help you a great deal!!! I find that in some of your arguments, the logic is in the toilet, and I regret responding to you at times. So, I am bear the responsibility at times. I am not aware of any small shop owner accepting checks from any patron, and putting up a sign like that will surely drive his/her business elsewhere, because the sign has a discriminatory tone to it. If a small shop accept checks from patrons, the owners are idiots...

Your attitude is that if you have not seen something , that something must be unreal. Here is a produce shop in my neighbood, they accept checks all the time and they do not even check our dirver license. They just trust most checks are good. If they don't accept checks as payment, then they lose a lot of revenue.
So some bad checks are risk they want to take. If bad checks occur, they may be nice to contac the person or they can understandbly get mad
and directly report to police without contacting the person first. It is up to them.

If you look down upon anyone, you don't have to reply. No one here cares about others attitude.

 

[sanjoseaug20]

I wonder if the OP has deserted this thread?

I wonder if there was a query / link to find all people who have posted less than 5 times. Apart from the announcements of people clearing their GC/N400 etc., I think the rest of them will make a "greatest hits of US immigration".

 

[Al Southner]

Your attitude is that if you have not seen something , that something must be unreal. Here is a produce shop in my neighbood, they accept checks all the time and they do not even check our dirver license. They just trust most checks are good. If they don't accept checks as payment, then they lose a lot of revenue.
So some bad checks are risk they want to take. If bad checks occur, they may be nice to contac the person or they can understandbly get mad
and directly report to police without contacting the person first. It is up to them.

If you look down upon anyone, you don't have to reply. No one here cares about others attitude.

WBH,

Nobody is looking down on anybody, but I am concerned about the logic in some of your arguments. So, we need to clearly differentiate the person from the act, which I thought that's what I did. I never said such a situation doesn't exist, i said the owner is an idiot because who has the time to collect checks which won't clear due to lack of funds... In 5 years, nobody will be writing checks anymore, because they becoming less popular and too much use of paper, and credit cards have been for a while...

 

[WBH]

WBH,

Nobody is looking down on anybody, but I am concerned about the logic in some of your arguments. So, we need to clearly differentiate the person from the act, which I thought that's what I did. I never said such a situation doesn't exist, i said the owner is an idiot because who has the time to collect checks which won't clear due to lack of funds... In 5 years, nobody will be writing checks anymore, because they becoming less popular and too much use of paper, and credit cards have been for a while...

My only original point is that some retailer who get a bad checks can report to police without first contacting the check issuer to give him a chance
to coorect. Then you tell me my logic has a problem but now you say "I never said such a situation doesn't exist".