Called for Naturalization Interview a second time

M

Mera Hindustan

Registered Users (C)
Hi Guys,

Long time reader first time poster here....need some desperate help...im an applicant who applied for naturalization some time ago, fulfilling all my requirements, and was called for an interview for naturalization...

At the end of the interview, the officer told me that i passed the questionnaire 100% with no wrong answers, but since i had multiple (4) dates of entry in the US since I got my green card, her supervisor would need to check it and they would let me know of their "decision" within a few days via mail.

One week later, two days ago, i received a letter from the same officer, to come for another meeting regarding "an official matter about your N 400 application for naturalization" . i am informed to present myself to the same officer at the same place i had my initial interview.

this is what i dont understand...although i had multiple dates of entry into US and extended periods of absence from US after i got my gc, every time, it was perfectly legal and i had three re entry permits till i finally came down here and settled for good.

all the absences were due to the fact that i was doing my professional schooling in india and could not take extended breaks while still in the program...but every time i came and went back, it was totally legit...

i am a professional here (dentist), went to school for two years at a prestigious university, have ONE speeding ticket, in terms of law breaking if you will, never did anything except by the book...

what i dont understand is why they have called me for second time....they asked me to bring my green card and drivers license for id..thats all..nothing else required.

my fear is....

a. can my application be rejected now that i am so close to getting my citizenship?

b. worst case scenario, maybe they scrap my application ( lets say i got the dates wrong and messed up and maybe it isnt enough time yet ), then can they for any reason, after all these years, take my green card away.?

c. Can they force me to surrender my green card or do something drastic like that, and if so, can i say i would like representation by a lawyer before i sign anything..i mean, what are my legal options if the shit hits the fan for some reason...


any help will really be appreciated...thanks guys..!!
 
While you haven't quite presented all the facts, it sounds to me like you broke your continuous residency during your trips to India. Applying for a reentry permit only secures your green card against abandonment of residency, and does nothing to protect naturalization requirement for continuous residency (i.e. no absence longer than 6 months).

I'm not sure there is much extra you can do at this point, except attend the next interview, answer their questions and hope for the best.

To answer your specific questions:
(a) Yes they can deny your N-400 application any time they believe it is justified under law.
(b) Provided your GC was not obtained fraudulently, and your reentry permits covered your extended trips, I see no reason they would cancel your permanent residency.
(c) Unlikely, I think that requires an immigration hearing before a judge. USCIS always want to see your GC during interview, so I'm fairly sure thats why they said to bring it with you.

Good luck
 
I was in the same boat,a lawyer told this to me....What happened in the past when it comes to either overstay or number of visits outside,its the past.Once they examine you and let you in its a done deal.
Second,like boatbod says if u broke the continuous residency they will definitely reject ur application..
Third takng ur gc and dl to the interview is a normal procedure..
anoter thing what do u mean if u got the dates wrong?u need to be carefull...if u put wrong dates and they figure that out they are going to think u tried to mislead them....U need to be carefull while filling out the application

hope this helps....

Jai hind ;)


Mera Hindustan said:
Hi Guys,

Long time reader first time poster here....need some desperate help...im an applicant who applied for naturalization some time ago, fulfilling all my requirements, and was called for an interview for naturalization...

At the end of the interview, the officer told me that i passed the questionnaire 100% with no wrong answers, but since i had multiple (4) dates of entry in the US since I got my green card, her supervisor would need to check it and they would let me know of their "decision" within a few days via mail.

One week later, two days ago, i received a letter from the same officer, to come for another meeting regarding "an official matter about your N 400 application for naturalization" . i am informed to present myself to the same officer at the same place i had my initial interview.

this is what i dont understand...although i had multiple dates of entry into US and extended periods of absence from US after i got my gc, every time, it was perfectly legal and i had three re entry permits till i finally came down here and settled for good.

all the absences were due to the fact that i was doing my professional schooling in india and could not take extended breaks while still in the program...but every time i came and went back, it was totally legit...

i am a professional here (dentist), went to school for two years at a prestigious university, have ONE speeding ticket, in terms of law breaking if you will, never did anything except by the book...

what i dont understand is why they have called me for second time....they asked me to bring my green card and drivers license for id..thats all..nothing else required.

my fear is....

a. can my application be rejected now that i am so close to getting my citizenship?

b. worst case scenario, maybe they scrap my application ( lets say i got the dates wrong and messed up and maybe it isnt enough time yet ), then can they for any reason, after all these years, take my green card away.?

c. Can they force me to surrender my green card or do something drastic like that, and if so, can i say i would like representation by a lawyer before i sign anything..i mean, what are my legal options if the shit hits the fan for some reason...


any help will really be appreciated...thanks guys..!!
Click to expand...
 
boatbod, query11,

thank you for your replies....yes i did leave for extended periods of time since i got my gc, but it was all done legally, through re entry permits, i still have them with me..

boatbod, i am aware of the fact that it does not guarantee naturalization and they can reject me at any time , but heres how i thought it through:


i arrived in US on March 11, 2002 the last time i came here, and have not left the country since then.

in the ins guide to naturalization, it is mentioned that:

you can apply for naturalization at 4 yrs. and 9 months, and that your application may be submitted at this time, you DO NOT have to wait a full 5 yrs to send your application.

if you had a re entry permit, then you can use the last 364 days of your rentry permit admission dates towards continuous residency, regardless of whether you were in the country or not...

it is in the guide to naturalization and so when i applied, this is what i calculated:

364 days from last re entry permit + 3 yrs. 9 mos, since 3/2002- 12/2005= 4 yrs and 9 months....and so i applied in december 05..

what bewilders me is the fact that application went on to this stage, where they reviewed everything so far and called me for an interview too, and now this issue has come up....

guys, have i calculated wrong...is there something i mis understood...what are your thoughts...if youd like , i can quote the page no. from the guide to naturalization from where i obtained this info....

PS: just a side note, the notice letter i just received was probably typed by the officer herself, and although it is on ins letterhead, it is not one of those ornate documents with security features and so forth, its a simple white sheet of paper, and she has even spelled things wrong...like green car, for eg... i dont know if this is just a typo or an indication that this is a simple formality that she herself wants to check out and nothing too serious.

im not considering it in any way, but i just thought they usually dont make such errors and are very clear...

anyways guys, please pour in your help, i really feel better now that im getting some feedback...i have till wednesday to prepare for the battle....and i wanna win...thanks...
 
Hi there!

Here is the problem with your application:

If read the guide to naturalization again, you will see that the 90 day rule does not apply to you. I am in the same boat.

You are eligible to apply 4 years and 1 day after your return to the US. So you would have been eligible to apply for naturalization on March 12, 2006. Not a day sooner.

Cheers!

Legal
 
LegalAlien99 said:
You are eligible to apply 4 years and 1 day after your return to the US. So you would have been eligible to apply for naturalization on March 12, 2006. Not a day sooner.
Click to expand...

Interesting. But since its well past that date now, I'd expect the application to be approved at the next interview, unless of course the IO finds something else to dig in.
 
One of my relatives had a problem with Continuous residency. She had miscalculated and applied. She even pased the interview and was told to sign the pictures. The IO then suddenly realized that the continuous residency requirement is not met and he denied N-400.

I think the burden of making sure all eligibility requirements are met is on us and not them.
 
I agree. The burden is on the applicant. When I was interviewed, the IO looked at my list of absences (I had not been in the U.S. at all during 2001). His first reaction was "oh, this might be a problem". I then flashed my reentry permit that I had gotten for that absence and told him why I had been gone for a little over a year (to finish university) and that I was taking advantage of the 4 years + 1 day rule. He said "okay, makes sense". He then used a red pen, circled the 1 year plus absence and wrote "OVERCOME" next to it.

He then made me sign the pics, take the 'test' and all of that stuff..the rest is history and can be read in my timeline.

Cheers!

Legal
 
hi guys,

thanks for all your responses...

legalalien, when you said that i may not be eligible, did you mean that i may not be eligible to use the last 364 days from my reentry permit towards time applied to continuous residency? i read the guide again, and there is nothing to say who is eligible or who is not..
can you please expand on that...thanks..

guys, i have only the last reenrty permit in my possesion at this time, the previous two are in india...i was informed that i do not need to keep re entry permits with me past their expiration date, so i didnt care to bring the first two...can that be an issue?

thanks...
 
hi guys,

one more question....


if they wanted to deny my application, would'nt they just send me a letter saying so, i mean, whats the deal with calling me in person and denying me..

or is that the way it works with ins? anyone know of anyone being called to the same officer who took the interview back again, and being denied in person?
 
Hi buddy,

The information I was alluding to can be found on page 22 - 23 of the Guide to Naturalization. I hope this helps.

Cheers!

Legal

Mera Hindustan said:
hi guys,

thanks for all your responses...

legalalien, when you said that i may not be eligible, did you mean that i may not be eligible to use the last 364 days from my reentry permit towards time applied to continuous residency? i read the guide again, and there is nothing to say who is eligible or who is not..
can you please expand on that...thanks..

guys, i have only the last reenrty permit in my possesion at this time, the previous two are in india...i was informed that i do not need to keep re entry permits with me past their expiration date, so i didnt care to bring the first two...can that be an issue?

thanks...
Click to expand...
 
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/English.pdf

page 26 clearly states that if you had a re entry permit and you came back to the country within two years, then you can use the last 364 days of your time spent OUTSIDE the US as TIME SPENT TOWARDS CONTINUOUS RESIDENCY.

so calculating those 364 days + time from march 11 2002 - december 12 2005 (the date i applied for naturalization )= 4 yrs and 9 months = can apply for naturalization.??

however, i see legalalien's point now...in the bottom of the same page it says..if you are applying based on 5 yrs continuous residency, THEN, you can apply 90 days before...

i am not applying based on 5 yrs...so thats what i did wrong, i should not have applied at 4 yrs. and 9 months..

but at this point in the game, TODAY, its been total=

364 days from re entry permit + (3/11/2002-7/20/2006)= 5 yrs, 4 mos..

do you guys think they will go...oh your dates were wrong, so you gotta apply all over again, or they will consider human error and let the application go forth..what are your views??

thanks again everyone..youve been a great help...jai hind!!
 
Most likely your application will be denied. You should have applied only AFTER March 12, 2006. You were NOT eligible to apply on December 12 2005

Please don't curse me as I am just stating the facts. You made the honest mistake. Don't worry..once it is denied, file the application immediately. You are only going to lose first $400 application fee.

Life goes on. Don't worry too much. If denied, apply again.


Mera Hindustan said:
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/English.pdf

page 26 clearly states that if you had a re entry permit and you came back to the country within two years, then you can use the last 364 days of your time spent OUTSIDE the US as TIME SPENT TOWARDS CONTINUOUS RESIDENCY.

so calculating those 364 days + time from march 11 2002 - december 12 2005 (the date i applied for naturalization )= 4 yrs and 9 months = can apply for naturalization.??

however, i see legalalien's point now...in the bottom of the same page it says..if you are applying based on 5 yrs continuous residency, THEN, you can apply 90 days before...

i am not applying based on 5 yrs...so thats what i did wrong, i should not have applied at 4 yrs. and 9 months..

but at this point in the game, TODAY, its been total=

364 days from re entry permit + (3/11/2002-7/20/2006)= 5 yrs, 4 mos..

do you guys think they will go...oh your dates were wrong, so you gotta apply all over again, or they will consider human error and let the application go forth..what are your views??

thanks again everyone..youve been a great help...jai hind!!
Click to expand...
 
hi,

havefun, thanks for your input, i appreciate your honesty and no i wont curse you at all...:)

i still wonder why they would call me a second time instead of just sending me a letter saying "since you have not met eligibility requirements, your application is denied and you need to apply again"

it sounds fishy for ins to waste their time when they can simply deny by letter and let me worry about the rest..

what do you think?

thanks.
 
I had a same kind of problem where I applied few months earlier, which interviewing officer couldn't figure out and application was denied by supervisor. Interviewing officer called me again so I can sign a letter to withdraw an application and re-apply same day. As per him if my application is denied than denial letter will come from service center which may take upto two months and I won't be able to refile until I get denial letter. So withdrawing application was faster way, which requires to sign a withdrawal letter.
 
In my personal experience I was forced to withdraw the application for naturalization and reapply for it just because I had submitted the N-400 three days too early (I miscalculated the 4 years and 9 months, unfortunately). What really upset me was the fact that they did not inform me that until I attended the pertaining Naturalization Interview. I asked the Interviewing Officer why I was not notified earlier and he replied that decisions were only made at the interview stage. It doesn't matter whether at the time of your interview you have accumulated the time required by law to apply for citizenship. To make the story short, I had to sign the withdrawal letter, reapply and pay for the $ 390.00 fee again.

I'm not sure if this is standard procedure or if USCIS Officers are allowed some discretion when making those decisions. He did mention that if I had failed to complete the time required by just one day, he would have gone ahead and interviewed me, but he wouldn't do it for three days.

Best of luck,

Einmalig.


Mera Hindustan said:
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/English.pdf

page 26 clearly states that if you had a re entry permit and you came back to the country within two years, then you can use the last 364 days of your time spent OUTSIDE the US as TIME SPENT TOWARDS CONTINUOUS RESIDENCY.

so calculating those 364 days + time from march 11 2002 - december 12 2005 (the date i applied for naturalization )= 4 yrs and 9 months = can apply for naturalization.??

however, i see legalalien's point now...in the bottom of the same page it says..if you are applying based on 5 yrs continuous residency, THEN, you can apply 90 days before...

i am not applying based on 5 yrs...so thats what i did wrong, i should not have applied at 4 yrs. and 9 months..

but at this point in the game, TODAY, its been total=

364 days from re entry permit + (3/11/2002-7/20/2006)= 5 yrs, 4 mos..

do you guys think they will go...oh your dates were wrong, so you gotta apply all over again, or they will consider human error and let the application go forth..what are your views??

thanks again everyone..youve been a great help...jai hind!!
Click to expand...
 
Mera Hindustan said:
hi guys,

one more question....


if they wanted to deny my application, would'nt they just send me a letter saying so, i mean, whats the deal with calling me in person and denying me..

One good reason why you are probably required to present yourself at the office is because, if they in fact determined that you were still not eligible for that benefit when you applied for it, you will be asked to formally withdraw the application yourself. You will be required to write something like this, "I am withdrawing my application for naturalization because I applied too early..." and sign for it. I was so upset that I refused to write the "withdrawal text", therefore the USCIS Officer wrote it himself. He said that he had to step out of his office for a moment to have one of his supervisors review the case shortly and decide whether he was applying the law correctly. His supervisor signed the withdrawal notice and I was asked to do the same. He clarified that if I refused to sign the withdrawal notice, he would be forced to "deny" the application. He explained that there is a difference between "withdrawing" and "denying" an application. Provided that all requirements are met, an applicant can reapply for the same benefit immediately after withdrawing the previous application. I could go home, download and fill out another application and submit it right away. On the other hand, if he denied the application, I would not be able to reapply before a 3-month-period ran out.

or is that the way it works with ins? anyone know of anyone being called to the same officer who took the interview back again, and being denied in person?
Click to expand...
 
ppp1234,

after reading your and the last post, i am almost sure that its the same case with me and they want me to come personally so they can have me sign the withdrawal form.

so how do you reapply the same day..do you have to fill out another application all together or can they use the same one ? can you please recollect from your memory what happened that day with you? and whats the status of your case now.

thanks..
 
Einmalig,

what do you think about my calculation as time applied towards continuous residency:

364 days applied from last re entry permit + 3/11/2002-12/12/2005= 4.9 yrs.

i applied on 12/12/2005...at that time it was a total of 4.9yrs...

was i not supposed to apply 3 months? and why..because i still am applying ( at least in my understanding) based on 5 yrs. continuous residency..

only difference is that i have 4 yrs of residency and am using (legally and accoring to INS published guidelines) the last 364 days of my reentry permit time towards the total time and culminating in a total of 5 yrs....

i cant figure it out....thanks for your replies..it really helps...
 
Mera Hindustan said:
Einmalig,

what do you think about my calculation as time applied towards continuous residency:

364 days applied from last re entry permit + 3/11/2002-12/12/2005= 4.9 yrs.

Mera Hindustan, another forum member (Legalalien, if I'm correct) mentioned that in a case like yours you would have to have 4 full years of continuous residence in addition to the 364 days that you would get from your re-entry document. However, you should call the USCIS Information line or go over the Guide to Naturalization pamphlet in order to clarify that.

As far as the re-application is concerned, you have to do it all over again as if you had never applied before. Unfortunately, you must pay the $ 390.00 fee again.

i applied on 12/12/2005...at that time it was a total of 4.9yrs...

was i not supposed to apply 3 months? and why..because i still am applying ( at least in my understanding) based on 5 yrs. continuous residency..

only difference is that i have 4 yrs of residency and am using (legally and accoring to INS published guidelines) the last 364 days of my reentry permit time towards the total time and culminating in a total of 5 yrs....

i cant figure it out....thanks for your replies..it really helps...
Click to expand...
 
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