Bush plan lets some illegal workers keep jobs

It sounds to me as if they will need a job offer and then will need to apply for a GC. Their illegal presence will be waived.

Basically, this sounds like a revival of 245i. Many people need that, including many on this board.

How are they "better off"?

You are here legally, presumably make a lot more money, can bring your family with you and get benefits from your employer. You can leave the US to visit your home at will and reenter without much problem. You are also not subject to arrest and detention.
 
Jim,

Keep in mind the adage - "there is no such thing as a free lunch" All the stuff that you say in your 4th paragraph is true, but it's because we have worked hard for it to be that way - to maintain legality at all times, sweat over our jobs, visa status, etc, keeping employment opportunities not necessarily based on their indvidual merit, but merely on remaining employed.

Also, I firmly believe that my US employer does not offer me benefits or a higher remuneration as a favor - it's because of the service I provide as an employee, so I have absolutely no qualms in accepting these; they are payback for the value-add that I bring to the business. Therefore, I do not agree that whatever you might say about salary, etc, are mitigating circumstances. What freedom about travel? I just read some posts today about some folks sharing their agaony about their spouses' visas being denied.

What pisses a lot of us here off (those who worked so hard at being legal) about 245(i), is that in one swoop, the law that we were striving to live by suddenly denied us that legitimate recogition and put everyone, including those that had broken it, on the same footing. What, therefore, is the incentive to follow the law, if every 4 years, there is likely to be some sort of an amnesty for those who break it? I quite frankly, cannot see how how that is justifiable, except in a political sense.

K


Originally posted by Jim Mills
It sounds to me as if they will need a job offer and then will need to apply for a GC. Their illegal presence will be waived.

Basically, this sounds like a revival of 245i. Many people need that, including many on this board.

How are they "better off"?

You are here legally, presumably make a lot more money, can bring your family with you and get benefits from your employer. You can leave the US to visit your home at will and reenter without much problem. You are also not subject to arrest and detention.
Click to expand...
 
The fact of the matter is, these people are here and they are working and raising families. Some of them even own companies and employ US citizens, Permanent Residents, and maybe even some of you. It is just silly to permit them to remain illegally and turn a blind eye to it and it could be damaging to many to remove them from the US.

Many of you that have worked so hard for their GC end up using 245i due to short periods of unauthorized employment or other problems that would otherwise preclude adjustment.

Just to be clear, I never said that anyone wasn't worth the money that they are being paid, (where did you get that idea?) I merely responded to a post that talked about how the illegal aliens were "better off then those who are going thru painful process of GC". I pointed out that that is simply not true. Even you admit this when you state that 245(i), . . . in one swoop, . . . suddenly denied us that legitimate recogition and put everyone, . . . on the same footing". Remember, these illegal aliens are required to have a job and go through the identical GC process that you guys are required to go through. You seem to assume that these people are all crop pickers and nannys. Lots of people have used the waiver provisions of 245i, even EB-1s, NIWs and others.

As far as travel restrictions are concerned, 245i waives nothing regarding travel. There have been many people that have filed a GC, gone through the entire process until they filed an I-485, I-485A (invoking 245i and paying the additional $1000 fee) and obtained Advance Parole. Since the alien then had AP the alien left the US for a short trip. This triggered the bar and the person was denied entry. 245i didn't prevent the bar, even though USCIS issued an Advance Parole document indicating the alien could travel.

It's pretty funny to me that you guys (most of which are aliens) are saying that these other aliens should not be given any breaks, while at the same time bemoaning the fact that many US organizations are trying to limit immigration.

Obviously the President of the United States is a political figure and is going to do things that further his political interests. Particularly in an election year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay i didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. It just add more frustration when the BCIS is already too slow in processing the GC applications and now they will be given new task to document all the illegal immigrants and provide them with relief.

So do you think its fair to those who are in GC lines and trying to secure their jobs and put up with the employers to be further delayed in their processing?

I am not against the relief but this will cost others more delay. Just my 2 cents.
 
Why?

People what the president is trying to do is not going to affect ppl who are here legally because they will not overtake you in the line of processing your GC but will be at the back of the line. The president is not proposing an amnesty but connecting a willing employee to a willing employer. Though there are many illegals here very many of them may not have a willing employer to process a change of status and also there many who have been working here for a long time on fake papers who can't even mention it to there bosses. Let us give people a chance. Remember Jesus did not come for the faithfuls but for the sinners
 
my 2 cents

I don't want to argue if it's fair or not to the people who have been in line for long time waiting for the GC or maybe eventually they will be denied after that or the process will get delayed much much longer if the proposal gets passed. The point is the purpose that the president proposed it is to aim to improve the safety of America. And I didn't see it as the solution. If the terrorists want to do the damage to America, they will not come forward to label themselves as such and will not be touched by such proposal. If the proposal is to curb the illegal immigration, I don't know how it will work. It will only encourage more people to immigrate here illegally when there is no legal means. Because they will believe the same blessing will happen to them someday in the future and they will just hold on to wait for that day after they land here.
 
First, I don't know why Jesus came, or for who, nor do I care, so let's leave him out of this debate, ok?

I'm not against 'giving someone a chance', Vs 'not giving someone a chance' (to quote - (most of which are aliens) are saying that these other aliens should not be given any breaks, Let us give people a chance, etc).

I'm not saying that I deserve the green card anymore than anyone else does. All I'm asking for is for a sense of fair play - I have taken the pains to follow both, the letter and the spirit of the law, so at least adjudicate my petition timely. Either grant it, or deny it, but do it timely.

Let me try to be clear - what I am against, is changing the rules of play, once the game has started. At first, only people who were legal every day of their stay in the US were allowed to file for adjustment. So we worked hard to be that way. Then, it was okay to be out of status for a limited time (situations beyond your control, this is where the NIWs, EB1 that Jim points out fit in) after having entered the country legally and still be eligible for adjustment. Fine, some (hundreds of thousands, actually) people got a break in that way. Friends of mine who got in the line before this happened took about a year or so to complete their process - I'm still here 2.5 yrs after I started, with no end in sight. Some people in the TSC have been waiting for more 4 years.

Now, you could have entered the country completely illegally, and still be eligible to file for adjustment. So now millions get this break. People who enter the country illegally or continue to stay on once their valid status is exhaused are breaking the law, aren't they? But I guess everybody deserves a break. So where does this stop? Why did we work so hard to remain 'legal' at all times?

Keep in mind that the one constant in this huge game with so many variables is the resources need to actually adjust everyone (State SWA's through to the BCIS). So who loses? Once this current proposal becomes law, I pity the 'legal' aliens who will be starting the PR process with their labor certs. We know what happened the last time a few thousand people became suddenly eligible for EB immigration (April 2001).

I do not grudge the President doing things to further his political career. He has every right to. I would probably do the same. Knocking out so many birds with one stone - the latino constituency, the pro-immigration groups, the agriculture lobby, AILA (more work for immi attorneys), etc. I think it's smart, esp if he manages to hold on to his conservative base at the same time. And who knows, we may all be jumping the gun here - maybe this will trigger additional funds to be allocated to acquuire additional resources, instead of further reallocating the current ones (now what are the chances of that actually happening? :D)

K
 
Just curious, do illegal immigrants pay taxes in general? They don't have SSN or TIN and their employers are not publicly hire them. So what's the deal :confused:
 
Bush' Plan is absolutely fantastic !!

In one stroke it offers all illlegals employee dependents workauthorization.(Similar to H1B for high tech).

So all these workers can now work legally and pay taxes like any of us. There are about 10 million of them in the country. Even if half of them apply, there will be 5 million applications at USCIS that will come back for renewal in 3 years. I sincerely hope USCIS can finish processing all the applications before they come back for renewal.

This will definitely help improve the economy as productivity will go up. These newly legal workers will be more than willing to work more than 8 hours without billing extra to keep their jobs (just like H1B's)

Moreover bush has proposed that guys can come in on similar permits in the future thus eliminating future illegals and assuring the economy a steady supply of cheap labour.

salute to Bush
 
In my view, this is major game played by Bush. On one hand , he want political gain and also side by side want to reduce illigal people. But........this will not going help any immigrant (legal or illegal)

For Legal, it will be more delays and possible most of them will loose the patience and either return back or become illegal.

For illegal people , it is very difficult to get Job because US employer will not ready to pay their Social Security, Health Insurance, leaves etc benefits. In stead they encourage illegal status because they can lot of money and can hire cheap labour.
It is surely not in the interest of US employer.

One more point , Most of illegal people are not properly educated So trying to bring them in main stream will need lot of training and awareness of legal procedures Which looks very difficult.

I think Bush's Plan is total political game to earn another term. This is going to hit hardly on Immigrant community especially people waiting for GC.

Just a different thought.
 
I think Bush will just keep on modifying this proposal and forget abot it after the election. Or put in a few more complications and and implement it in such a way that most people chose to continue illegal.
That won't be very difficult to do. All he has to do is to make it very difficult for these guys to gt GC's.
So after 3 years they are not sure of renewal of legal stay.
He will do something crappy after the election.
Rasmeek
 
Originally posted by Jim Mills
It's pretty funny to me that you guys (most of which are aliens) are saying that these other aliens should not be given any breaks, while at the same time bemoaning the fact that many US organizations are trying to limit immigration.
Click to expand...
Jim,

This is an extremely low blow. One would have expected an immigration attorney to understand the plights of legal immigrants. The concept here is not to deny illegal immigrants a chance to be legal, infact I definitely support that. They are a huge contributution to the work force and someone needs to do the jobs they do, BUT implementing a plan without fully thinking it through is a receipe for disaster!

Bush has not given any details of how the departments will be given additional funding, he has not mentioned, how processing times will change, he has NO PLAN to take care of the hoards of people who will now want to become legal!

I was screwed under 245(i) so I know what I am talking about. My labor took 18 months, and I personally know a couple of people who applied 2 weeks after me and are still waiting for labor clearance. That is the result of working without a plan.

And I don't understand why the AOS applicants should suffer just because some other immigration community cannot travel or cannot bring their familes over. We are all paying fees, we are all paying for the beauracracy to function. Instead of investing the money they receive from the fees to improve the INS structure, they take all the money out and move it to border security. How FAIR is that?

I don't think the legal immigrant community has any problems with other people getting benefits. This is a capitalistic society so everyone should prosper equally, but taking the benefits from a few to support others smacks of communism. And that is the problem here! All we want are our rights. Nothing more, and nothing less. If the president feels that illegal immigrants shoul be made legal, terrific, just provide the additional money and staff to deal with them. Don't take that from the current budget.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top