BAD news guys...1932 is almost dead..

[inkink]

Nadi, on the subject of AC21 portability you are very much ill-informed.

AC21 portability is only applicable to switching a job with identical DOL categorization. In the case of developer -> managerial career change, even within the same company, AC21 is not applicable. If a person does opt for such a change which is not covered by AC21, his labor certification will no longer be valid. Consequently the whole GC case will be invalidated.

Anecdotal information about "I know/heard someone who did what" is meaningless when the law is clearly unambiguous on the subject. If the VP you are referrign to did use a employment based EAD based on a LC filed when he was in a technical position, then he and his employer will be facing dire legal consequences if/when USCIS finds out. He personally will suddenly lose his legal status in the country. The company he works for, if proven to knowingly hire him in a position his immigration status does not warrant, will face a severe fine.

We all hope for more freedom and mobility when it comes to our career, but ignoring the law leads to nowhere.

You do not need AC21 to get promoted from programmer to manager... there are no rules laid out for EAD as what type of job one needs to do.
So do not complain -- just because U do not have a GC U are not getting promted... there is saying that if U do not know how to dance --- U will complain about the stage..... I know a guy who became a VP of mid size company in H1b ... and later moved to EAD.. So do not try to discourage people with Ur funda.

 

[jkvaisnavi]

If the retrogression goes this way(even without retrogression it took 3-5 yrs), it will take atleast 6-8 yrs to get our green cards

After having 8-10 yrs of experience in IT expecting the applicant to be Developer is meaningless...I hope INS and everyone will agree it..

 

[adr]

4) state-tution - This I never thought. Oh Man I will be doomed if I stay in US longer and if my kid studies here. Good point Armie.

That's not true. If you are paying taxes in a state for 1 year, you are eligible for in-state tuition for the next year.
You are not eligible for FAFSA support if you are not permanent resident.

 

[jayjo7]

That's not true. If you are paying taxes in a state for 1 year, you are eligible for in-state tuition for the next year.
You are not eligible for FAFSA support if you are not permanent resident.

That might vary by state, here in Washington if you do not have GC you have to pay non-resident fees, Which state are you from?

 

[chicagopains]

No one will agree..

If the retrogression goes this way(even without retrogression it took 3-5 yrs), it will take atleast 6-8 yrs to get our green cards

After having 8-10 yrs of experience in IT expecting the applicant to be Developer is meaningless...I hope INS and everyone will agree it..

They will go with rules thats all who cares if it is 20 years INS officer will go by law and rules thats all.A small change in labor Vs.Job can damage GC ..

 

[Nadi]

Guys --- you are going by general logic.

First and foremost -- EAD and AC21 is two different things.

Let me put in simple terms :

GC is for future employement .... right ... Now say U work for company A ... Company A needs U for future too and so applies for Ur Green Card.. for a position say programmer in Cobol.

Now say U get Ur labor and 140 approved thru Company A .. and U have got a EAD too .... Now this EAD is not attached any way to Company A .. it is based off Ur AOS.

Using that EAD --- U can start to work for Company B and quit Company A. You need not invovke AC21 .. if the company A still feels that U will start working for them after U get a GC as a Programmer in Cobol.

But now ... if ..... company A feels that they do not require Ur services for future ... that is they might not be a requirement now for Cobol programing ...in future ... so Company A applies to revovke Ur application.
In such cases U can invovke AC21 -- to protect UR self from being dumped to no where.

As long as Company A does not revoke Ur application --- there is no need to invoke AC-21.

There are no rules set in while issuing U with a EAD -- as per what type of job they expect U to do ... For H1b yes there is ...

It is not required to file for EAD --- U are in-status even without it (as long as U have a pending 485)--- only thing is that U cannot work. EAD simply says -- U are a bonafide guy to seek employment.

I know a guy from UK who is fighting cancer.. at that time he could not work and his 485 was pending .. lost interest in every thing and did not apply for EAD even. USCIS queried for his employment -- like tax returns, salary slip etc. He replied he does not have a EAD to work ... so he is not working and he intends to start his work with the employer as soon as he gets the GC
USCIS issued him a Green card after 42 days. He did not have a attorney even for his 485 .. as he had self applied for it.

If you disagree -- please do give me the link -- where it states that AOS guys can work only the job that are mentioned in the GC labor.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone said in the honda dealer was checking the immigration status -- That is wrong -- they cannot do it. They are not the immigration officials.
Even a police officer will not demand Ur passport and immigration papers -- until authorized by court.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[chicagopains]

Answer this....

Guys --- you are going by general logic.

First and foremost -- EAD and AC21 is two different things.

Let me put in simple terms :

GC is for future employement .... right ... Now say U work for company A ... Company A needs U for future too and so applies for Ur Green Card.. for a position say programmer in Cobol.

Now say U get Ur labor and 140 approved thru Company A .. and U have got a EAD too .... Now this EAD is not attached any way to Company A .. it is based off Ur AOS.

Using that EAD --- U can start to work for Company B and quit Company A. You need not invovke AC21 .. if the company A still feels that U will start working for them after U get a GC as a Programmer in Cobol.

But now ... if ..... company A feels that they do not require Ur services for future ... that is they might not be a requirement now for Cobol programing ...in future ... so Company A applies to revovke Ur application.
In such cases U can invovke AC21 -- to protect UR self from being dumped to no where.

As long as Company A does not revoke Ur application --- there is no need to invoke AC-21.

There are no rules set in while issuing U with a EAD -- as per what type of job they expect U to do ... For H1b yes there is ...

It is not required to file for EAD --- U are in-status even without it (as long as U have a pending 485)--- only thing is that U cannot work. EAD simply says -- U are a bonafide guy to seek employment.

I know a guy from UK who is fighting cancer.. at that time he could not work and his 485 was pending .. lost interest in every thing and did not apply for EAD even. USCIS queried for his employment -- like tax returns, salary slip etc. He replied he does not have a EAD to work ... so he is not working and he intends to start his work with the employer as soon as he gets the GC
USCIS issued him a Green card after 42 days. He did not have a attorney even for his 485 .. as he had self applied for it.

If you disagree -- please do give me the link -- where it states that AOS guys can work only the job that are mentioned in the GC labor.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone said in the honda dealer was checking the immigration status -- That is wrong -- they cannot do it. They are not the immigration officials.
Even a police officer will not demand Ur passport and immigration papers -- until authorized by court.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Nadi,

I agree your point"As long as Company A does not revoke Ur application --- there is no need to invoke AC-21."---But no one will take that risk even company president is your close friend...

If you have pending 485 and valid EAD.You can leave the company and work for McDonalds as a dish washer OR Manager for Microsoft company irrespective of labor and 140??????????????????

 

[sertra2002]

This whole thread is very funny. Nadi is just trying to prove a pount which he thinks is right. Even though it is going against all the laws !

Let me put in simple terms :

GC is for future employement .... right ... Now say U work for company A ... Company A needs U for future too and so applies for Ur Green Card.. for a position say programmer in Cobol.

Now say U get Ur labor and 140 approved thru Company A .. and U have got a EAD too .... Now this EAD is not attached any way to Company A .. it is based off Ur AOS.

Using that EAD --- U can start to work for Company B and quit Company A. You need not invovke AC21 .. if the company A still feels that U will start working for them after U get a GC as a Programmer in Cobol.

But now ... if ..... company A feels that they do not require Ur services for future ... that is they might not be a requirement now for Cobol programing ...in future ... so Company A applies to revovke Ur application.
In such cases U can invovke AC21 -- to protect UR self from being dumped to no where.

As long as Company A does not revoke Ur application --- there is no need to invoke AC-21.

OK, what if A revoked I-140 and USCIS issues you an Intent to Deny letter. Obviously, you will want to invoke the AC21, and reply with a letter stating your new job and responsibilities. Now, lets say you had changed employers from A to B. Also, from being a Cobol Programmer, you now became a secretary of the CEO. What will happen to your I-485 if you reply to the Intent to Deny, saying, I changed employers, and ALSO I CHANGED THE TYPE OF JOB I AM DOING !! I am no longer a COBOL programmer but a full time Secretary. You can guess what the USCIS response will be !!

There are no rules set in while issuing U with a EAD -- as per what type of job they expect U to do ... For H1b yes there is ...

It is not required to file for EAD --- U are in-status even without it (as long as U have a pending 485)--- only thing is that U cannot work. EAD simply says -- U are a bonafide guy to seek employment.

Remember the EAD that you got is based on the I-485. The I-485 is based on the I-140 and the approved labor. So although, there are no rules as to what jobs you may do, when an EAD is issued per se, but there are rules based on the pending EMPLOYMENT BASED I-485 and the approved labor.

 

[nTan]

I am in a SOUP !!!

Long time reader but first time poster -- so I did register in the end to post this.

reading the discussion -- i think my attorney misled me and I might be in the soup...

I came to US with H1b -- my labor stated as oracle and pl/sql developer( for non software guys : its a database programming stuff). It was a Desi company -- who put me in contract job (company ZZ) -- but I did programing in Visual Basic and ASP for the client company. The company(ZZ) was based in detriot and the company was interested to hire me full time -- but the desi company had signed some agreement etc with the client company (ZZ) -- they could not have hired me for x number of years or had to pay some huge amt of cash.

Well the owner of company ZZ, discussed this issue with me and agreed to file for the GC ( the company assumed that GC will take atleast 1.5 years and filed labor for VB6 developer)-- and I agreed in terms that I will work the company after I get the GC.. I was all excited to get a surpise offer . But when the desi company knew about my GC issue -- he removed me from the company(ZZ) and made me work as a testing guy in another large company(YY). Then he would cycle me every 4 months or so to different clients.[difficult days man ... esp with the family]

Now I got my EAD and my 140 got approved -- but 485 is delayed since I am EB3 from India.

I quit the desi company which was holding my H1b and started working for another company in a permanent position as a Project Manager for a small team of 4 developer in Java and Oracle database. this company I joined a year and half back and work with EAD.

[My lawyer said this is all legal and did not tranfer my H1b etc... I still have some years left on H1b... as am using my EAD since]

I have done EAD 3 times -- and my GC company is still holding on to the filing . But they have doing nothing on VB 6 now as the language has become old and outdated -- they have moved on to C# .net ( I am sorry for non programmer -- these are different programming languages). When I called the boss of the company last month -- he said that he will still fit me in -- but the uncertainity is not good.

According to the agreement of the Desi company and company ZZZ there are still 4 months to go before I can join them (Company ZZZ).

If I join back company ZZZ -- I will be working in entirely a new AREA .. which is not specified in my labor and I will be working with EAD.




Thanks for reading my long story ...

My questions are

*Am I in complete violation of the job description and will my 485 be denied because of it.

*Should I ask the company(ZZZ) to apply for H1b as I have still some 2 odd years left on H1b. In the labor the company can mention the new labor requirements for me ... right.
If so what will happen to the job requirement in the GC labor.
[I have sent this to my attorney tooo... but he never ever mentioned that I am in complete violation of labor for GC]



Thanks and have a great day and happy holidays.
tan

 

[fiveice]

You may be ok.

Based on what you said, it is important to know which job category company ZZZ filed you labor. It should NOT matter if you work on VB6 or VB.NET as long as you don't change your job category.

So if you still work for company ZZZ as a job which is in the same category as the one you applied for your labor, you should be fine.

You may want to ask some expert, such as UN for help.

Good luck.

fiveice

 

[armie]

That's not true. If you are paying taxes in a state for 1 year, you are eligible for in-state tuition for the next year.

It seems everyone assumes all US states follows the same laws as their home state.

In NJ you are not elegible for state tution even if you have lived, worked and payed taxes on H1/EAD for 10 years unless you have GC.
In some other states, you qualify for state tution, just after 1 year even if you were on H4 and never paid taxes there.

 

[armie]

You do not need AC21 to get promoted from programmer to manager... there are no rules laid out for EAD as what type of job one needs to do.
So do not complain -- just because U do not have a GC U are not getting promted... there is saying that if U do not know how to dance --- U will complain about the stage.....

CIS does not restrict what you can do with EAD. However, if your aim is getting GC approved, you need to be in the same or simlar job category.

I know a guy who became a VP of mid size company in H1b ... and later moved to EAD..

I saw few drivers speeding today, none of them got tickets; does it mean it is legal?

So do not try to discourage people with Ur funda.

Ignorance can be bliss for some, but not for ever. If you have changed/planning to change jobs on EAD, talk to an attorney about using AC21; because it seems that you are not capable of figuring out the facts yourself based on the discussion so far.

 

[jkvaisnavi]

Now a days it is taking 6-8 yrs to get GC approved... If the labor says "Developer" after 8 yrs USCIS expecting the person to be in the same position DOESN'T make any sense.. They should know it..

I know GC is for future employment then why are they asking about the current W2, payslips, blah blah...

If they are expecting the position to be the same then they should approve all the case in 2 yrs timeframe..

 

[eBhola]

armie...
Your argument is not rational ..

Say many years ago -- I filed for the labor for my GC as programmer... yea say 5 years back .. and now I am still waiting for 485 approval.

Meanwhile I finished my MBA and got a new position on a new H1b -- which labor states that I will working as Manager in XYZ company in Chicago.

Now say i decide not to extend my h1b --- and start using EAD ---
Here U say that I cannot work as manager as my GC - labor states that in future I will work as programmer ... hmmm and if I extend my H1b I can still work as Manager ??? ... things do not seems right.

May I know the source of your information on this ... I will check that out with my attorney..

[My attorney says that if I do not extend my H1b .. I can still work with EAD in the same position .. I need not scale down my position and salary]

Thanks

 

[sertra2002]

armie...
Your argument is not rational ..

Say many years ago -- I filed for the labor for my GC as programmer... yea say 5 years back .. and now I am still waiting for 485 approval.

Meanwhile I finished my MBA and got a new position on a new H1b -- which labor states that I will working as Manager in XYZ company in Chicago.

Now say i decide not to extend my h1b --- and start using EAD ---
Here U say that I cannot work as manager as my GC - labor states that in future I will work as programmer ... hmmm and if I extend my H1b I can still work as Manager ??? ... things do not seems right.

May I know the source of your information on this ... I will check that out with my attorney..

[My attorney says that if I do not extend my H1b .. I can still work with EAD in the same position .. I need not scale down my position and salary]

Thanks

ebhola,

Rememeber when a company applies for your labor they are doing so to fill a particular 'position'. That GC is for that position and not for that person. We all forget this one very important fact. GC has not been applied for you as a person, but for a position in your company that you have been chosen to fill. So just think about the whole thing from this angle, then what armie says may start making sense. So in your example above, the LC was for a programmers job. The company felt a need for a programmer, could not find a PR or USC and thus decided to sponsor an alien to fill the position. Now don't thnk of it that GC was applied for ME as a programmer, its been 5 years and now I should be fine to move to a higher position. Sometimes the laws and rules may not seem justified or make much sense. They become outdated and have to be replaced or updated. That is what has happened now when the whole process which was supposed to be over in a few months is now taking years. We definitly need a change, but until that comes, all have to suffer.

 

[armie]

Now a days it is taking 6-8 yrs to get GC approved... If the labor says "Developer" after 8 yrs USCIS expecting the person to be in the same position DOESN'T make any sense.. They should know it..

No, the applicant should know it that it will take 8 years or more to get the GC.
So you should not ask the employer to file GC unless you are willing to work on the same job category as the one for which you LC was originally filed when your GC will be finally approved. There is also a risk that position no longer exsists. For example: if one's LC was filed as Y2K programmer in 1999. If PD becomes 2006, technically the GC cannot be approved even if the applicant is working for the same company. The alternative is the company apply for new LC/140 every time the applicant's job function changes, assuming that category is elegible for LC approval.
Many be it doesn't make sense to some, but the very purpose of employment based green cards is to bring in immigrants to fill in a particular category for which shortage exsists. sertra2002 previous post clearly mentions the GC is for the position not for the person.

 

[nTan]

So you should not ask the employer to file GC unless you are willing to work on the same job category as the one for which you LC was originally filed when your GC will be finally approved.

I used to work for a desi company some time ago... they are doing GC for many guys who are in India.
How does this plays out for them ... are they required to work in the same field in India too ..


Thanks

 

[armie]

I used to work for a desi company some time ago... they are doing GC for many guys who are in India.
How does this plays out for them ... are they required to work in the same field in India too ..


Thanks

Employment based GC is for future Job. So, if their LCs were filed as developers, they have to work as same once they land in US. While they are in India, they can work as managers or janitors as needed. Of course, getting LC/I-140 approved for someone who is currently working as janitor is not easy, but not impossible. Anything is possible with a good attorney and employer who can task the risk.

 

[nTan]

Employment based GC is for future Job. So, if their LCs were filed as developers, they have to work as same once they land in US. While they are in India, they can work as managers or janitors as needed.

I am sure one of my friend who called some time back will be relieved ... he is in India and currently unemployed .. by choice. He got stranded there by this retrogression .. poor soul.

I thought -- after a GC one can do any job -- regardless of LC etc... correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks

 

[MinOct03]

Once you have a GC you can take up any job. Then your LC Job description does not matter.
All of this discussion in this thread is pertaining to- Pre-GC scenarios, where LC job description matters.