paz1960 said:Well, I probably wasn't clear enough with my question. My case (as many others on this forum) is not adjudicated solely because the full criminal background check, as mandated by Congress in the FY98 Spending Bill, is not completed.
So why do you think, that asking defendants to produce any evidence, which would stop them to comply with 8 U.S.C. 1446 and adjudicate my application in max. 120 days after the examination would lack relevance? USCIS invariantly claims that due to the increased security threats they have to be really cautious and do a very careful investigation of any applicant. If the lack of this full criminal background check is the sole reason why an application was not adjudicated in the prescribed timeframe, I thought that requesting defendants to produce this document (the result of the background investigation) has absolute relevance to my complaint, to the case. If this document is produced and presented at the trial, USCIS would be left with no arguments why not to adjudicate the application. If nothing wrong, application approved, if something bad, application denied. But if courts would follow the US v. Hovsepian 9th circuit court decision, USCIS could not either deny or approve an application as soon as a 1447(b)-based lawsuit is filed with the district court, for the simple fact that the court gains exclusive jurisdiction and USCIS can adjudicate (i.e., approve or deny) the application only after the case is dismissed or remanded, so they regain jurisdiction. Some judges would follow this logic, some not. Of course, USCIS can deny the application as soon as the judge remands the case to them. After this would follow the administrative appeal and only after a definite decision is made, one could file an another complaint with the district court based this time on 8 U.S.C. 1421(c).
But I admit, I didn't study enough the rules related to discovery and evidence. It would be a great help if you can enlighten us, what is in your opinion, the best strategy in the discovery phase, what is relevant to such complaint and can be asked defendants to produce.
paz1960 said:Well, I probably wasn't clear enough with my question. My case (as many others on this forum) is not adjudicated solely because the full criminal background check, as mandated by Congress in the FY98 Spending Bill, is not completed.
So why do you think, that asking defendants to produce any evidence, which would stop them to comply with 8 U.S.C. 1446 and adjudicate my application in max. 120 days after the examination would lack relevance? USCIS invariantly claims that due to the increased security threats they have to be really cautious and do a very careful investigation of any applicant. If the lack of this full criminal background check is the sole reason why an application was not adjudicated in the prescribed timeframe, I thought that requesting defendants to produce this document (the result of the background investigation) has absolute relevance to my complaint, to the case. If this document is produced and presented at the trial, USCIS would be left with no arguments why not to adjudicate the application. If nothing wrong, application approved, if something bad, application denied. But if courts would follow the US v. Hovsepian 9th circuit court decision, USCIS could not either deny or approve an application as soon as a 1447(b)-based lawsuit is filed with the district court, for the simple fact that the court gains exclusive jurisdiction and USCIS can adjudicate (i.e., approve or deny) the application only after the case is dismissed or remanded, so they regain jurisdiction. Some judges would follow this logic, some not. Of course, USCIS can deny the application as soon as the judge remands the case to them. After this would follow the administrative appeal and only after a definite decision is made, one could file an another complaint with the district court based this time on 8 U.S.C. 1421(c).
But I admit, I didn't study enough the rules related to discovery and evidence. It would be a great help if you can enlighten us, what is in your opinion, the best strategy in the discovery phase, what is relevant to such complaint and can be asked defendants to produce.
Hi Roomi, no, my application is not adjudicated yet, I am in the middle of the 30 day extension AUSA requested to answer my complaint.Roomi1967 said:HI PAZ1960
Thank you for quick response. Now in your cases, I am sure you were successful in the end? I mean you got your oath letter after 1447b monkey business.
It my lawyer who started the FOIPA before filling the 1447b petition
thanks
Roomi
DUDE12190 said:hi Dear!
Are you in Virginia? I am asking this because there was a very good thread from 2005 and they were discussing that in virginia, it is better to file WOM than 1447b because almost all the cases of wom were cleared. I am going to find that thread and send it to you. Thank you!!! And by the way, I am pllaning to file 1447b in new york city area, if you or anyone have any helpful information, please share. I applied in 2004 and was interviwed and passed everthing in May 2005. Still waiting for the stupid security clearnce!
Thanks again!! Bye
I think that you are mixing the Writ of Mandamus lawsuits and the Petition for Hearing on Naturalization Application under 8 U.S.C. §1447(b). In a WOM case the court certainly lacks power to adjudicate the application and make the Plaintiff US citizen. The only thing what the judge can do, is to compel the Defendant to act, i.e., FBI to finish the background check and USCIS to adjudicate the application.LuckyPiggy said:I didn't read the US v. Hovsepian case you mentioned. However, though not reading it, I am sure that no MANDAMUS court will adjudicate your case and to approve your case in court. It goes to the fundamental principle of seperation of powers. You may want to look up federal rules of evidence for the relevancy test courts apply. I believe those are not relevant.
paz1960 said:I think that you are mixing the Writ of Mandamus lawsuits and the Petition for Hearing on Naturalization Application under 8 U.S.C. §1447(b). In a WOM case the court certainly lacks power to adjudicate the application and make the Plaintiff US citizen. The only thing what the judge can do, is to compel the Defendant to act, i.e., FBI to finish the background check and USCIS to adjudicate the application.
"Congress has removed naturalization from the courts and vested the Attorney General with “sole authority to naturalize persons as citizens of the United States,” in INA § 310(a), 8 U.S.C. § 1421(a) (as amended by the Immigration Act of 1990 (“ImmAct 90"), Pub. L. No. 101-649, Title IV, 104 Stat. 4978, 5038-48 (Nov. 29, 1990)); see also id. § 1421(d) (“A person may only be naturalized as a citizen of the United States in the manner and under the conditions prescribed in this subchapter.”); INS v. Pangilinan, 486 U.S. 875, 883-84 (1988) (courts lack “the power to make someone a citizen” except to the extent authorized by Congress).
However, Congress has reserved two specific points at which United States district courts may exercise jurisdiction to review aliens’ naturalization applications. The first is where United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (“CIS”) has issued an administratively final denial of a naturalization application, in which case the disappointed naturalization applicant may seek judicial review of the denial in an appropriate district court, pursuant to INA § 310(c), 8 U.S.C. § 1421(c). The second is where the agency has failed to render a decision on an application within 120 days of the completion of the applicant’s naturalization examination, in which case the applicant may apply to an appropriate district court either to decide the application itself, or remand it to the CIS with instructions, pursuant to INA § 336(b), 8 U.S.C. § 1447(b). " (from the Immigration Litigation Bulletin, Oct. 2005, p.3)
I remember that actually I saw a 1447(b) case, when the judge ultimately granted citizenship to Plaintiff. I'll look up this case tomorrow and will post it here.
But this power to "determine the matter" is rarely exercised, and never when the background check is not finished yet. Usually, judges choose the second option conferred them by 1477(b) and remand the matter to the Service, with appropriate instructions. The key issue is, in my opinion, what are these appropriate instructions, if any.
Because the US v. Hovsepian case is so important in arguing these lawsuits and it is the only upper level (9th Circuit Court) decision dealing with this issue, I will repost it below.
zlin said:I filled MOW for 485 pending 2 years (family based) in mid Dec. I called my US Attorny office today, they forwarded me to an answer machine. I thought no hope... But she called me back in 3 hours and told me she recieved my complain and forwarded to CIS and FBI. And since there are so many complains, there's a policy change, fbi will not expedite name check which comfirmed the bad news. So she said let us wait. My MOW's answer is due in mid Feb. I asked her if I can call her up once a week for following up. She said she's not sure if she will get some news in a week plus she has lots of things to do but then she said sure call her anytime. She told me even if we don't get any answer from FBI CIS, she will fill "something" on deadline. I'll keep you guys updated and hope I'll get some good news in the end.
paz1960 said:Because the name check is still pending, USCIS can't adjudicate your application. Because the deadline to answer your complaint is the coming Friday, AUSA will need to file something. Usually, this can be one of the following three things:
1. An answer to your complaint
2. A motion to extend (usually by 30 days)
3. A motion to dismiss
If AUSA has info that they are working on your case and there is a good chance that the case can be solved soon, (s)he would go for an extension.
Usually, the judge grants the first (and in many cases, even the second extension) even if Plaintiff opposes it, so the best you can do is to agree with the extension if AUSA asks for your agreement (probably this will happen Friday).
If AUSA files a motion to dismiss, you will need to come up with a strong Opposition to the Defendants Motion to dismiss. You will need to file that in certain number of days after AUSA filed the Motion to dismiss. The exact number of days and format is regulated by the local rules, i.e., can be different in each district. In mine is 28 days.
If AUSA files an answer, you don't have to file a reply to that. In this case the judge will schedule an initial case management conference, or something like this. However, you still need to prepare your case, because it is more likely that you can end up in an oral hearing, trial, and you will need to be able to defend your case, i.e., to oppose the jurisdiction challenge, etc.
N. Cal. district court is known that it is one of the most liberal districts, so your chances are good if you reach a judge. But the US Attorney's Office is a separate entity, is not part of the district court, they are representing the government and by such, they are acting more in line with the general, nationally valid policy. Usually the AUSA does whatever the DHS (or USCIS) General Counsel instructs him/her. And this is not necessary friendly...
aka808 said:Have you heard anything after your 2nd FP from the AUSA or USCIS?
hayyyoot said:My assistant US attorney has just asked the judge to remand the case back to the USCIS, and I already filed an oposition, and I am getting myself ready for court if need be.
My question to you is: How can I get a copy of a case if it is too old, and not posted on Pacer anymore, the government has asked the judge to refer to the case of Sze et al v. INS et al, Pacer only lists the docket dates, and doesn't offer an option to download the actual documents. I would like to study the case before I go to court (if I went to court), do you have any suggestions on how to get a copy of the complaint, and the other documents in that case??
Here is the header as listed by Pacer:
3:97-cv-00569-SC Sze, et al v. INS, et al
Samuel Conti, presiding
Date filed: 02/18/1997
Date terminated: 07/24/1997 Date of last filing: 10/22/1998
I just have a feeling that this case might not be similar to mine, since it was filed in 1997 before the writ of mandamus law was ever created.
I would realy appreciate any help in that.
Here are my details:
N400 RD 11/17/05
ID: 4/21/06
1447: 8/28/06
USA served same day
10/26/06 request for extension of time
granted by judge in few days
11/21/06 motion to remand back to USCIS based on above case
oposition filed on 11/22/06
Response due by defendants: 12/14/06
AUSA contacted me last week, and requested that I file for an emergency motion to remand because they will POSSIBLY schedule my oath ceremony on 12/15/06, however, stopped returning my calls when I emailed him and called him and requested that any motion to remand or dismiss should be singned by both parties, and should contain firm dates, he aparently won't do that, so, I assume he was lying, just wanting to get rid of me. So, I am getting ready for court
Please advise
wenlock said:Do you know when she asked FBI for expediated request it was before 12/22/06 or after that? I am just curious to know what happened to requests that were place before 12/22/06.
In order to help you, please post the EXACT title of the documents what the parties (you and AUSA) filed.nasman said:Ok my beloved US Attorney (Norfolk Virginia) instead of making their lives easier and ordering CIS to send me Oath so they won’t have to hear my name have chosen to "Rebuttal". At least one good thing came out of my law suit that my back ground check finally cleared after 3 years in November, 2006. In December they send a motion to dismiss to my law suit on the grounds of “120 days start from the day back ground check has cleared not from the day I passed my citizenship interview in February, 2004”. So I filed a motion to motion to dismiss stating several cases in country where court rules in favor of plaintiff that 120 days start from the day you pass your initial interview which I did in February, 2004. Now yesterday I received a “Rebuttal” that court has no jurisdiction in this case and this case be remanded back to USCIS. I really want to fight back on the grounds of how other states have granted Oath and Norfolk Virginia is denying that rule. I guess I am open for ideas that should I fight back right away or wait till 120 days time limit is over and file another lawsuit in March 2007. But I would hate to pay another $400 (including summons and photocopies) again. If I do fight back how do I do it? Just send the same appeal to dismiss motion to dismiss?
huxf said:update:
My 2nd FP was done two weeks ago and was also told by infopass that name check cleared and evertyhing was in order for process. was anxious and then called the NSC this morning, but was very disappointed with the answer.
I was told it is still "in process" for both USCIS and FBI and name check was not cleared!!! The lady told me they and me (they send/forward) should get "name check cleared notice" if FBI finishes the job. this is the first time that I heard CIS would send applicants notice if name check cleared. Anybody had similar experience before?
Now I am so disappointed today since I need this D*** card to move ahead to accept my new job with better opportunity and 50% pay rise. I don't know who is telling the truth, the infopass or the NSC.