Am I correct or the attorney is correct?

[LikeGolfing]

EB2 LC recently done (after more than two years) but I-140/I485 hasn't started.

EB1 I-485 was filed around August 2002 and my EB1 I-140 was approved around January 2003.

Company attorney strongly discourages me on filing EB2 despite the recently EB2 pilot program. The attorney's argument is: USCIS will want to join the cases and this means delay for both cases - he believes my EB1 is coming soon.

I thought EB1 and EB2 are processed independently at USCIS. Even if they join the cases, I don't see much negative impact on either case. At least this will bring my dormant EB1 case to their attention. (I hope he is not trying to save the LC for another person.)

Am I correct or my attorney is correct? Your comment would be gratefully appreciated. Experts please help, I have to make decision soon.

J. W.

 

[goodsaint]

You cannot have two adjustment petitions pending at a given time.

EB2 LC recently done (after more than two years) but I-140/I485 hasn't started.

EB1 I-485 was filed around August 2002 and my EB1 I-140 was approved around January 2003.

Company attorney strongly discourages me on filing EB2 despite the recently EB2 pilot program. The attorney's argument is: USCIS will want to join the cases and this means delay for both cases - he believes my EB1 is coming soon.

I thought EB1 and EB2 are processed independently at USCIS. Even if they join the cases, I don't see much negative impact on either case. At least this will bring my dormant EB1 case to their attention. (I hope he is not trying to save the LC for another person.)

Am I correct or my attorney is correct? Your comment would be gratefully appreciated. Experts please help, I have to make decision soon.

J. W.

 

[Jharkhandi]

EB2 LC recently done (after more than two years) but I-140/I485 hasn't started.

EB1 I-485 was filed around August 2002 and my EB1 I-140 was approved around January 2003.

Company attorney strongly discourages me on filing EB2 despite the recently EB2 pilot program. The attorney's argument is: USCIS will want to join the cases and this means delay for both cases - he believes my EB1 is coming soon.

I thought EB1 and EB2 are processed independently at USCIS. Even if they join the cases, I don't see much negative impact on either case. At least this will bring my dormant EB1 case to their attention. (I hope he is not trying to save the LC for another person.)

Am I correct or my attorney is correct? Your comment would be gratefully appreciated. Experts please help, I have to make decision soon.

J. W.

I do not see any harm in taking chances. It will not delay it any further.

 

[ruxrux]

Your attorney is correct - let me add that you can't have two AOS applications at the same time.

 

[FunnyWait]

It seems somebody asked the similar question to Att. Murthy in her weekly chat and she said having two cases could lead to confusion thus delaying both.

 

[pralay]

Your attorney is correct - let me add that you can't have two AOS applications at the same time.

Not true. There is no rule for stopping you from applying multiple I-485s at the same time as long as you have different underlying I-140 with each I-485 application. If you apply two I-485s, eventually one will be approved and 2nd one will be denied.

 

[Jharkhandi]

pralay is right. You can have any number of 485s filed. There is no rule which prohibits it. Nothing confuses USCIS about filing 2 485s - they are not attached. As pralay mentioned correctly - one will be approved then other will be denied automatically.

 

[wik]

EB1 I-485 was filed around August 2002 and my EB1 I-140 was approved around January 2003.

How did you file your EB1 485 before the underlying 140 was approved? Do you mean January 2002 for your 140 approval?

Anyway, I filed EB1 EA 485 in Aug 2002, like you, with my 140 having been approved in March 02. I got approved late last week.

 

[pralay]

It seems somebody asked the similar question to Att. Murthy in her weekly chat and she said having two cases could lead to confusion thus delaying both.

I heard this before when my friend applied for their I-485s. As both husband and wife were H1 visa holder they both applied for their own I-140s. Eventually they went for only one set of I-485s - wife as principal and hunband as derivative (they could go for two different set I-485s same time though). One of their company attorneys told them that it's not a "good idea" to apply two I-485s. I don't know why that's not a good idea and and what the rantional behind that is.

 

[LikeGolfing]

Thank you all very much.

Really grateful to all who give your comments and suggestions.

It seems that the opinions are 50%:50% divided. Maybe this is not a clear cut issue. However most comments seem to suggest the USCIS does tend to join cases.(?)

To answer wik's question: that was not a typo - the concurrent filing was implemented a few months after my I-140 was filed so my I-485 was filed before the I-140 was approved around Janurary 2003.

 

[140_takes_4ever]

pralay is right. You can have any number of 485s filed. There is no rule which prohibits it. Nothing confuses USCIS about filing 2 485s - they are not attached. As pralay mentioned correctly - one will be approved then other will be denied automatically.

True! The main reason why attorneys don't like to do so, is because of the confusion it causes. The reason behind the confusion is that INS doesn't know what petition you are interested in pursuing. In your view it is the one the gets approved fastest. But the way INS views it, is different, they look at the last petition filed by you and take it to be the one that you are interested in pursuing since you are doing it after the first one. Add to that the fact that IIO's are human, and can be expected to wonder about the situation and possibly screw up further.

You will rarely see attorneys promoting two AOS applications for the same person.

A smarter way to go around this is for one person to apply for AOS with the spouse as derivative and reverse the order while putting in a petition for CP. This covers both bases, and based upon speed of approval, the most promising one can be made the main petition with the other being discarded.

 

[Jharkhandi]

True! The main reason why attorneys don't like to do so, is because of the confusion it causes. The reason behind the confusion is that INS doesn't know what petition you are interested in pursuing. In your view it is the one the gets approved fastest. But the way INS views it, is different, they look at the last petition filed by you and take it to be the one that you are interested in pursuing since you are doing it after the first one. Add to that the fact that IIO's are human, and can be expected to wonder about the situation and possibly screw up further.

You will rarely see attorneys promoting two AOS applications for the same person.

A smarter way to go around this is for one person to apply for AOS with the spouse as derivative and reverse the order while putting in a petition for CP. This covers both bases, and based upon speed of approval, the most promising one can be made the main petition with the other being discarded.

There is no workaround. Anytime you file after first 140, you have to mention your A# from first 140. If having two cases is a source of confusion then all multiple cases should have problems, irrespective of what you mentioned. It is like saying AC-21 will confuse USCIS! There is no such basis.

Why lawyer's advice otherwise is that in case of automatic refusal - their record gets bad for a refusal. In case of pro-active withdrawal - their record gets bad for withdrawal.

For you as applicant there is no harm either ways.

 

[goodsaint]

I think it is as simple as this - you cannot get 2 green cards therefore you cannot apply for 2 green cards. My guess is that if you send another 485, INS will either ask you to withdraw one of them or automatically consider the first one withdrawn.

the best way is to start CP process if you already have one 485 pending.

 

[pralay]

I think it is as simple as this - you cannot get 2 green cards therefore you cannot apply for 2 green cards. My guess is that if you send another 485, INS will either ask you to withdraw one of them or automatically consider the first one withdrawn.

I don't think so. CIS does not "ask" you to withdraw one of them or does not assume that one is "abandoned". Ideally, they are separate I-485 and they should be processed same fashion as other I-485s. CIS approves only one I-485 for each A#. All the remaining I-485 will be denied same way - by sending notice for intent of denial blah blah blah. In reality, there could be internal processing issues that 140_takes_4ever explained.

It's very similar to EAD card. If you apply for your EAD card twice at the same time, eventually they will issue one EAD card and 2nd application will be denied citing that they already issued an EAD card for you. But CIS does not ask you withdraw 2nd application, neither they assume that one of the application is abandoned.
They just don't provide the same document twice to a same alien. It's true for EAD and it's true for green card. Period.

 

[Jharkhandi]

I think it is as simple as this - you cannot get 2 green cards therefore you cannot apply for 2 green cards. My guess is that if you send another 485, INS will either ask you to withdraw one of them or automatically consider the first one withdrawn.

the best way is to start CP process if you already have one 485 pending.

Having one CP and one 485 is same thing as having two 485s in the context that you have used(no 2 GC for same person).

Now the other side:

There is a memo regarding Prohibition on Concurrent Pursuit of Adjustment of Status and Consular Processing (AD00-15) by Michael Cronin on Aug 08, 2000 , which you may like to go thru. Practical side that some such 485s are rejected after I-824 is approved. However as per chapter 23.2 of the Adjudicator's Field Manual (which provides guidance on general adjustment of status issues) it should be rejected before adjudicating I-824.

Now for two 485s - there is no such memo that I know of - if you know any memo, any rule, please pass the pointer.

 

[140_takes_4ever]

Anytime you file after first 140, you have to mention your A# from first 140. If having two cases is a source of confusion then all multiple cases should have problems, irrespective of what you mentioned. It is like saying AC-21 will confuse USCIS! There is no such basis.

Why lawyer's advice otherwise is that in case of automatic refusal - their record gets bad for a refusal. In case of pro-active withdrawal - their record gets bad for withdrawal.

Haven't quite understood your logic behind comparing an AC21 case to multiple application case. Filing for AC21 just signifies that the sponsoring employer has changed. It doesn't open a new file.

And as far as lawyer's advise is concerned, I am sorry, but this is pretty much news to me, that records are kept regarding any lawyer win/loss count. If that was true, half the lawyers would not take cases since in most cases, there is a winner and a loser, and going by your logic a lawyers record is spoiled by losing a case.

With regards to your note about a memo that requests all 485 cases to be denied before processing CP, are you aware that there used to be a memo, that required all processing of AOS cases to be halted when the applicant is out of the country on AP? The reason for pointing out this memo to you is to give you examples that memo's are written but rarely followed due to logistic issues. More often they are meant for CYB (Cover your Butt) purposes.

Again this is a pretty grey area, without clear cut guidelines, and hence the confusion right from applicant level to the attorney level. It is not that either scenario will not work out happily. It is just that the risk involved, and the ambiguity of the situation, cause hesitation. Other than that everyone's 2 cents are valid.

 

[Jharkhandi]

Haven't quite understood your logic behind comparing an AC21 case to multiple application case. Filing for AC21 just signifies that the sponsoring employer has changed. It doesn't open a new file.

And as far as lawyer's advise is concerned, I am sorry, but this is pretty much news to me, that records are kept regarding any lawyer win/loss count. If that was true, half the lawyers would not take cases since in most cases, there is a winner and a loser, and going by your logic a lawyers record is spoiled by losing a case.

With regards to your note about a memo that requests all 485 cases to be denied before processing CP, are you aware that there used to be a memo, that required all processing of AOS cases to be halted when the applicant is out of the country on AP? The reason for pointing out this memo to you is to give you examples that memo's are written but rarely followed due to logistic issues. More often they are meant for CYB (Cover your Butt) purposes.

Again this is a pretty grey area, without clear cut guidelines, and hence the confusion right from applicant level to the attorney level. It is not that either scenario will not work out happily. It is just that the risk involved, and the ambiguity of the situation, cause hesitation. Other than that everyone's 2 cents are valid.

Haven't quite understood your logic behind comparing an AC21 case to multiple application case. Filing for AC21 just signifies that the sponsoring employer has changed. It doesn't open a new file.

You will not get the point - don't overstretch - just relax. You are trying to translate one to one.

And as far as lawyer's advise is concerned, I am sorry, but this is pretty much news to me, that records are kept regarding any lawyer win/loss count. If that was true, half the lawyers would not take cases since in most cases, there is a winner and a loser, and going by your logic a lawyers record is spoiled by losing a case.

You read more than what I wrote. Anyways there are firms which evaluate lawyers. Just copy and paste following link:

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_detail.xml?pos=1&CP=1&FNAME=&LNAME=&LSCH=&FN=&CN=&CTY=&ft=1&lid=1724669&attid=1724672&STS=51&CRY=1&hp=1&RR=4941&PRV=LL2&STYPE=N&MTY=&ratind=Y

Check the rating.

Now that is not news - it is education for you! There are other better ways to find out lawyer's rating - but your way is more like effort to prove yourself right and others wrong rather than finding truth - do you deserve to know it? Belv me some ways are as good as finding doctor's record in state medical board(I know it will shock you!)

With regards to your note about a memo that requests all 485 cases to be denied before processing CP, are you aware that there used to be a memo, that required all processing of AOS cases to be halted when the applicant is out of the country on AP? The reason for pointing out this memo to you is to give you examples that memo's are written but rarely followed due to logistic issues. More often they are meant for CYB (Cover your Butt) purposes.

Specify the memo - no story telling please. But I am happy atleast you could get what I was trying to explain - that memos are there for CP+485. There is none for 485+485 - forget about law! Otherwise I was afraid you will be one who will miss the point. Kudos!

Again this is a pretty grey area, without clear cut guidelines, and hence the confusion right from applicant level to the attorney level. It is not that either scenario will not work out happily. It is just that the risk involved, and the ambiguity of the situation, cause hesitation. Other than that everyone's 2 cents are valid.

Ask Rajiv in next meeting. He will surely educate you better then what I can. He is expert I am layman.

P.S. Make a rule in CSC 485, that some other moderator deletes the post, if one of them is involved in it - you seem too offended too fast. My last post here - if you delete this one like one you deleted for my reply on quarter stuff posted by you:

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=133690

But if you still need education - come to VSC forums - we are more pluralistic there.