6 months per calendar year or just 6 months: maintain the card

[paul sid]

The topic of maintaining the card has been well discussed in this forum. Many of us would like the flexibility to take a break from the US when we have a green card but ensure those years count towards naturalization in the future.

On that topic...

I have seen a few threads where people have stated that you have to be in the country for 6 months per 'calendar' year (i.e. you can only spend 6 months in total out of the country from 1st Jan to Dec 31st).

I read a naturalization document which states that you just cannot take trips longer then 6 months (i.e you could leave for 5 months 2 weeks come back to the USA, stay for a short period of time and then do this again thus maintaing the continous residency requirement for naturalization).

So which is it? You can only spend 6 months out of the country in total per calendar year OR your trips have to be less then 6 months as per the immigration doc??

Appreciate your help guys (and if your not sure about your response let me know).

Thanks.


Sid

ps. I do realize that you have to show residency intent, file taxes, retain bills, etc.. as well.

 

[dsfgh100]

The topic of maintaining the card has been well discussed in this forum. Many of us would like the flexibility to take a break from the US when we have a green card but ensure those years count towards naturalization in the future.

On that topic...

I have seen a few threads where people have stated that you have to be in the country for 6 months per 'calendar' year (i.e. you can only spend 6 months in total out of the country from 1st Jan to Dec 31st).

I read a naturalization document which states that you just cannot take trips longer then 6 months (i.e you could leave for 5 months 2 weeks come back to the USA, stay for a short period of time and then do this again thus maintaing the continous residency requirement for naturalization).

So which is it? You can only spend 6 months out of the country in total per calendar year OR your trips have to be less then 6 months as per the immigration doc??

Appreciate your help guys (and if your not sure about your response let me know).

Thanks.


Sid

ps. I do realize that you have to show residency intent, file taxes, retain bills, etc.. as well.

You need to show that you had maintained ties with United States while on GC. Need to have ties to US in matters such as Bills, bank accounts, home, car, wife and/or mistress, etc.

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Vote Bush '04

 

[paul sid]

That has always been wrong.
For naturalization, that is the requirement, as specified in the law (INA 316), and in plain English in the "Guide to Naturalization" available from the USCIS website.
The main thing, though, is keeping the GC, since without GC, no naturalization.
On that front, all stays abroad have to be temporary in nature, and you have to file US taxes, etc.
Just coming for a short time to the US every 6 months is not going to help with that. On the contrary, it puts the temporary nature of the stay abroad in question.

Thanks for the help chaps. A couple more points of clarification...

1. If you combine visiting the USA every 6 months with filing for a re-entry permit prior to leaving (which will safeguard the GC), as well maintaing ties as much as possible (paying taxes etc..) one will be pretty much covered? Do you agree?

I don't have any employment at the moment - so there is nothing i can do with an employer to maintain naturalization. If I took employment in the UK I would not declare it (and they would not find out if I kept it off the USA tax return world income). The reason given in the re-entry permit would be training (definiate ending). I would also try and set up my own USA company so that I would have "a job" technically and avoid any concerns of public charge at the POE (inside of 6 months this would not be an issue in anycase i think?).


2. If you don't get a re-entry permit for a year or so - how do you leave and come back into the country and maintain the card? - can you use the receipt instead at the port of entry until you get the passport like permit??




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[paul sid]

First off, a reentry permit does not "safeguard" the GC. It merely allows you to apply for admission to the US during its validity, even if you stayed abroad for over 1 year. It is just one indicator that you may not have abandoned your GC. It is by no means the only indicator, nor the most important one. Entry to the US is never guaranteed.The stay abroad still has to be temporary in nature. Your mere phrase is already an indication that your stay abroad may not be temporary. If you "visit" tthe US every 6 months you indicate that you reside abroad, which is of course a big problem with respect to the GC.

Thanks JoeF.

I understand the symantics. the aim is to continue the right to reside and work here in the future, but take a break after sweating to get the green card. after spending years in silicon valley i can see how usa tech companies take advantage of visa based workers and how the culture of hire and fire within the usa can be scary when you are on a visa - your not an equal player in the employment 'market' in the usa unless you have work authorization (particularly in northen California).

The point of undertaking minor training whilst abroad is so that, at the POE every 6 months upon my "return" (notice how the usa is my home symantically ) i have documentation to show that I have been out for a definable and closed duration reason and hence will arose less questions about abanding residency when returning.

Hmm, you would have to declare this on the N-400. If you kept it off there as well, you would hide a material fact, which can result in lots of problems, including deportation. Absolutely never lie to CIS and IRS. You would only make things worse. Taking up unlimited employment abroad is actually a strong indicator that you have abandoned your GC, reentry permit or ties to the US or not.

Thanks. I reviewed Part 6 and Part 7 on the N400 based on your advice. They will not be able to trace that you have worked abroad in any case (particulary if you do not declare on usa taxes) - so it does not make a difference if you kept the abroad work "off" the N400. I would think it is possible for GC holders to set up their own companies and hire themselves? Thus would it be possible for me to be employed in my own company during visits abroad and claim that i am employed at the POE and returning to a job? It does not say anything about self- employment in the N400 section regarding employment (hmmmm - wonder if employing myself would mean I could technically get a N470 approve prior to leaving? - watcha think?)

You simply can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Having the receipt is completely irrelevant. If you are not in possession of a reentry permit, and you have been abroad for over 1 year, you would lose your GC if you came back. So you would be stuck abroad until the reentry permit shows up. If it got denied (rare for the first one, but it has happened) you would have lost the GC.

Okay, thanks - thus I assume the sooner one applies for this the better.


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[paul sid]

As always, you have to be truthful. If this is real training, it would be ok. Something fake made to look like training is not ok.
Maybe. But, there are other people who know what you did, so they could always report you to CIS, resulting in a lifelong possibility of blackmail. Here is something to consider: the best help that IRS has are disgruntled ex-spouses in divorce proceedings...
Other possibilities are ex-coworkers, jealous neighbors or relatives...Sure.Again, if that is true, yes. If it is not true, you put yourself up for lifelong blackmail..

Thanks. But failure of anyone reporting you working, there is little likelyhood of CIS investigating country specific tax returns outside of the USA? People and employers in other countries that you are already a national in would not be knowledgable about your USA status either (unless you tell them). Also not sure of the 'lifelong' blackmail bit, once you 'have' citizenship it will take quite a bit to take it away - unlike the GC where you can be removed and your past is reviewed within the citizen interview.

Self-employment is employment like any other employment. You in the role as business owner employ yourself in the role as employee.

Thus letters indicating that you are employed (for POE documentation) could be written by the HR director or CEO and indicated that "I" am the employee (even though I am also the HR director and CEO as well).

The concern would be a request to see paystubs , you would have to pay yourself regulalry i assume to make it look like employment (tricky)? If accounts are requested - this is something that you would also have to maintain as well I assume - concur? As the words on N470 says an "American owned firm or corporation" - i would think the company you have does not have to be registered as a corporation, but can just be a sole proprietor "firm"? Welcome your thoughts..


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[paul sid]

But there also have been other cases of hiding a material fact on the GC application or on the naturalization application.

i am going to ignore the flames as your footer suggests Joe F. and by the way the isp accounts aren't ours. my point is that it would be legitamate for an individual to be self employed and develop international trade/commerce on the basis of a N470, thus you don't have to work for a large company to do this as many people think - as long as you are legitamately looking for international trade. Also its legitamate for one person to be the chairman, CEO, technical analyst and anything else until they hire someone else to do that, there is no limitations on how many roles a person plays, in the same manner that there is no limits (i understand) on how many H1-Bs a person can have (as long as they can do the jobs).


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[dsfgh100]

paully baby. I will ask Rajiv to create a channel for conversations such as the ones you and JoeF are having. Lets title that channel "Illegal Immigration Discussion". What say you?


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[PeterPany]

paully baby. I will ask Rajiv to create a channel for conversations such as the ones you and JoeF are having. Lets title that channel "Illegal Immigration Discussion". What say you?


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Why the heck are you posting dsfgh100 if you have nothing beneficial to say???. I've looked through most of your posts and they are a waste of time. I am wondering how you sneaked into the country or who let you in when you don't have a job and therefore have waayyy too much spare time to waste by making stupid posts. Perhaps we should report you and get you booted on the next boat outtahere. Certainly they did not give you a professional visa as there is nothing 'professional' about your responses.




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[eltoro]

He is now banned. Was about time

Excellent news, JoeF.

 

[cgiz]

Good discussions here--given the possible negative consequence of setting up the so called "one-person-business" as JoeF suggested, would it be better to tell CIS straight that you had period of "unemployment" as a GC holder during naturalization process?

My guess is it doesn't hurt being unemployed as a permanent resident. And because of this unemployment and lack of income, one will not be required to file tax. If you were laid off by sponsoring employer after getting GC, you may stay unemployed forever as long as you have legal $ to support yourself.

That way you may not have to worry about hiding material facts on N-400.
Also, at POE, as long as you are not absent for over 6 months, you may tell POE officer that you are unemployed and have no problem getting back in right?

 

[PeterPany]

Also, at POE, as long as you are not absent for over 6 months, you may tell POE officer that you are unemployed and have no problem getting back in right?

I would not understand why a person would want to tell an officer at the POE that they are unemployed. Makes sense to just say your are self employed within the US, or if you do work for a company, say that you are employed. Modern work practices within the USA are more closely aligned to contracting and temporary working, so its makes sense to define yourself as your own company looking for contracts and clients, rather then unemployed and sounding like you are doing nothing, or of little current value to society. Certinaly work in the computer field is temporarly/contract and usually consultatively based. By saying that you are self-employed it sounds a lot more positive; it does not have to mean that you are actually currently earning, as you could be in the process of business set up and looking for client project work or in startup/stealth mode as many people are in the technology fields. I do not see any downside to this?, as I guess being self employed does not necessarily mean that you have a registered corporation either, or any other paperwork, a business card is really all you need i would think to prove your are in business perhaps? Permanent employement per se is only needed whilst attaining the green card if sponsored by a business, once you have the greencard you would be freer on how you define yourself as Paul and Sid mentioned earlier.



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[PeterPany]

As I said, there is nothing wrong with being self-employed or having a company per se. It only is bad if your income comes only from working abroad. When an examiner looks at that, e.g., in the process of naturalization, it is going to be hard to convince him of the legitimacy. These guys have seen it all before.

right. there are two risks points here. 1) when returning at POE is your situation going to provide alarm that your intention is abondonment, even within 6 months and 2) during citizen interview when your past is combed over does it look like your not treating the US as your home, and will the application be denied. Which makes me wonder if they deny your naturalization application, do they automatically take away your greencard?

a note on risk point 1), it is assumed that most sensible people that want to be naturalized would be willing to come back to the US within 6 months in order to ensure that the abondoment presumption is not rebuttable, and also to prevent 6 months+ flags on the N400.

to boil this down - what Joe F. seems to be saying it is a safer bet against both 1) and 2) risk above, that your income/earnings is derived within the USA as it creates a sense of closer ties. Thus, in theory if you was a US telecommuter and relocated to Japan - providing you maintained other ties, like be being payed into your US accounts by a US employer/client, you would be pretty safe to 1) get back in the country, and 2) be natuaralized, at a later date. The fact that you did the actual work abroad would not be used against you.

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[PeterPany]

oops. made a few adjustments whilst you was posting. your advise seem pertinent in any case.


..and do they strip you of your greencard if you they do not allow you to be a citizen?

 

[bb_5555]

people

if you really want to have your proverbial cake and eat it too you'll have to become US citizen to accomplish that.

You cannot "abandon" US citizenship no matter how long you stay outside the US. Also you can vote overseas as well.

A lot of countries are pretty nice about letting their former citizens come back and live there again. Korea for example immediately gives you permanent residency if you can prove that you were a citizen of korea or a child of a citizen of korea. Other countries from what I understand just simply let you keep your citizenship allowing you to become dual citizen.

 

[asrivang]

I am really impressed by the way 'PeterPany' expressed the matured and professional way of defining oursleves at the port of entry, when asked about our emplyment. His views are very positive, dynamic and in commanding spirits. Thanks PeterPany, for your valuable contribution to this site.

 

[Johar Ali]

what if one's work abroad but comes back for the weekend

What if someone works in Canada and keep a place and a weekend job in the USA. Or maybe just come back once a month. Is it a possibility? Can one then report the income abroad and still maintain US residency? Thanks in advance...