"4 Years + 1 Day" Filers Tracker

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sh1996

Registered Users (C)
I believe there are several folks (e.g., PR81502) who have or will be applying based on the "4 years + 1 day" rule. Because I'm also in this camp, I thought it might be helpful for folks to have one thread to report their experience.

I know there's a running debate on application of the 4 years + 1 day rule to absences of under 1 year. If this applies to you, can you please note it in your post?

My experience:

I applied in October 2007, but got denied due to break in continous residency. I worked abroad (at the branch office of a US firm - paid in US dollars out of the US) for a bit over 2 years (September 2002 - December 2004). During that time I came back to the US for work and vacation several times, but there were two continous absences of slightly over 180 days and obviously all absences were back to back with less than 1 month in the US in between.

My evidence for continous residency consisted of a letter from my firm dated before I left (September 2002) indicating that the overseas assignment was for two years and that I would be transferred back afterwards. I was transferred back with the same firm and applied almost 3 years after I came back. I maintained my US bank account/credit cards/etc. and had mail sent to a relative (who I previously lived with during summers while I was in school). I filed US tax returns on Form 1040 and the second year actually paid alternative minimum tax to the IRS even though I was living in a higher tax jurisdiction. I have absolutely no ties to the country where I was working. I've lived in the US since I was 5 years old and received all my schooling here.

I thought my chances were 50-50, but unfortunately got an anal retentive IO. (She actually thought that to preserve residency I had to pay US taxes and not take advantage of foreign tax credits?!? WTF, that would have left me with 15-20% of income after paying taxes to the US and the country where I was working. :confused:) Since it was a discretionary decision, after consulting a lawyer, I chose not to appeal and instead re-filed December 2008 based on the 4 years + 1 day rule. My interview is on June 10th. We'll see what happens.

None of my individual absences were over 1 year, but since they were back to back, my continous residency "was broken" for over 2 years.
 
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I checked option A 5 years but actually applied under 4 years + 1 day rule(my last trip was 346 days long). I gave the IO a cover letter in reference to the rule. The IO wanted proof of residence from 2003 to 2008 although I sent (pay stubs, rent payment check copies, IRS transcripts from 2003 to 2007 and gave the IO the 2008 transcript at the interview).

At the interview I gave the IO affidavit of residence from my dad, marriage certificate and kids US birth certificate, a copy of 401-k statement with my address, a copy of a letter indicating that my employment overseas was temporary( I returned immediately after that employment ended and I have no trips outside US since last return), and a balance statement of passbook savings account. But that was not enough.
She ask me to send the following.
1. Utility bills
2. Lease/rental agreement or proof of mortgage
3. Medical records
4. Marriage certificate
5. Vehicle registration for all vehicles owned
6. DMV print out
7. Vehicle insurance
8. List of addresses where you have resided since 2003. Please indicate how long you have resided at each address and with whom you lived.
9. Bank statements
10. Social security statements
11. Any other proof of residence.

I mailed the following documents today(5/28/09):

#2(from 2005); #9(a letter from bank indicating no statements available for passbook savings accounts, a copy of transactions from passbook for 2003 and an online printout of savings account transactions for 2005: it would not allow me to print 2003/2004); #10 for 2005-2007; W-2(2005-2008) and copy of DL. So the only year I had no info for was 2004.

It is all left up to the IO now. So folks who apply using 4years +1 day rule for absences >6months < 1 years try to take or send with application evidence showing ties.

I am hoping I get my oath letter instead of denial letter in the next 2-4 weeks.

All the best with your case sh1996.
 
sh1996 said:
...I've lived in the US since I was 5 years old and received all my schooling here...
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Did your parents never naturalize? Or did they only naturalize after you turned 18? Sucks to be here in the US since age 5 and not be a citizen yet...that's like being an immigrant in Europe, where citizenship is significantly harder to obtain...e.g., you can be born in Germany of non-German parents and not obtain automatic citizenship...

In any case, good luck with the rest of your processing sh1996 and hopefully it works out this time!
 
I have 2 back to back absences of < 6 months (144 and 165 days with a 5 week stay in US between the 2 trips) as I was sent on an temporary overseas assignment (< 1 year) by my US-based company. I had maintained my US residence and was on the US payrolls throughout my assignment. Also I applied for N-470 to preserve my continuous residence and was approved by USCIS. As per the approval, I can count my stay outside US towards the requirement of continuous residence for Naturalization. Also I paid my US taxes as US resident and used "Foreign Tax credit" to get credit for the paid foreign taxes.

Does anyone see any issue with approval of my N-400 application? I just do not understand as to how the claim of "Foreign Tax Credit" amounts to break in continuous residency.
 
coolguy446 said:
I have 2 back to back absences of < 6 months (144 and 165 days with a 5 week stay in US between the 2 trips) as I was sent on an temporary overseas assignment (< 1 year) by my US-based company. I had maintained my US residence and was on the US payrolls throughout my assignment. Also I applied for N-470 to preserve my continuous residence and was approved by USCIS. As per the approval, I can count my stay outside US towards the requirement of continuous residence for Naturalization. Also I paid my US taxes as US resident and used "Foreign Tax credit" to get credit for the paid foreign taxes.

Does anyone see any issue with approval of my N-400 application? I just do not understand as to how the claim of "Foreign Tax Credit" amounts to break in continuous residency.
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You had an approved N-470 and applied under 4 year + 1 day rule?
 
Bobsmyth said:
You had an approved N-470 and applied under 4 year + 1 day rule?
Click to expand...

No, I did not apply under 4 year + 1 day rule but rather applied under the 5 year rule with approved N-470.

I got my GC on July 19, 2004 and was on an overseas assignment from Dec., 2006 - Nov., 2007 (with 5 weeks stay in US during May-June, 2007) and applied N-400 a couple of days back (i.e 5/26/2009). N-470 was approved for the period of my overseas assignment.
 
NewRunner said:
Did your parents never naturalize? Or did they only naturalize after you turned 18? Sucks to be here in the US since age 5 and not be a citizen yet...that's like being an immigrant in Europe, where citizenship is significantly harder to obtain...e.g., you can be born in Germany of non-German parents and not obtain automatic citizenship...

In any case, good luck with the rest of your processing sh1996 and hopefully it works out this time!
Click to expand...

Thanks. We were here on my dad's student visa. We didn't get GCs until much later and my parents returned to our home country before naturalizing. That was one of the strikes against me in the continous residency determination: my immediately family was not in the US while I was abroad.

In hindsight I should have applied for the N-470. But I didn't know about it until after I left and looking at it then, it looked like you need to apply before you left. C'est la vie.
 
coolguy446 said:
No, I did not apply under 4 year + 1 day rule but rather applied under the 5 year rule with approved N-470.

I got my GC on July 19, 2004 and was on an overseas assignment from Dec., 2006 - Nov., 2007 (with 5 weeks stay in US during May-June, 2007) and applied N-400 a couple of days back (i.e 5/26/2009). N-470 was approved for the period of my overseas assignment.
Click to expand...

The ridiculous foreign tax credit issue came up in the context of proving continous residency. If you're applying with an approved N-470, you shouldn't have to prove it with other evidence.
 
sh1996 said:
Thanks. We were here on my dad's student visa. We didn't get GCs until much later and my parents returned to our home country before naturalizing. That was one of the strikes against me in the continous residency determination: my immediately family was not in the US while I was abroad.

In hindsight I should have applied for the N-470. But I didn't know about it until after I left and looking at it then, it looked like you need to apply before you left. C'est la vie.
Click to expand...


Quoting from N-470 form:

"You should use Form N-470 if you are a lawful permanentresident (permanent resident) who will be absent from theUnited States for more than one year due to qualifyingemployment and you want to preserve your residence fornaturalization purposes.

Please note that in most cases you must have been physicallypresent and residing in the United States for an uninterruptedperiod, without any absences whatsoever, for at least oneyear after your admission as a lawful permanent residentbefore you can file a Form N-470.

You do not have to be in the United States to file Form N-470,but you must file it before you have been absent for acontinuous period of one year."

So a person is eligible to file for N-470 if you reside in US for 1 year continuously (without any trips outside US during this 1 year period) after you become Permanent Resident. A person can file N-470 even if he or she is outside US but the stay outside US has to be < 1 year before the application.
 
coolguy446 said:
Quoting from N-470 form:

"You should use Form N-470 if you are a lawful permanentresident (permanent resident) who will be absent from theUnited States for more than one year due to qualifyingemployment and you want to preserve your residence fornaturalization purposes.

Please note that in most cases you must have been physicallypresent and residing in the United States for an uninterruptedperiod, without any absences whatsoever, for at least oneyear after your admission as a lawful permanent residentbefore you can file a Form N-470.

You do not have to be in the United States to file Form N-470,but you must file it before you have been absent for acontinuous period of one year."

So a person is eligible to file for N-470 if you reside in US for 1 year continuously (without any trips outside US during this 1 year period) after you become Permanent Resident. A person can file N-470 even if he or she is outside US but the stay outside US has to be < 1 year before the application.
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Form read differently in 2002.
 
The longer version of the below is in the NYC tracker.

I passed my interview at Garden City, NY this morning. My immigration officer was an older Chinese woman, whose accent was a little hard to understand, but not bad, and was quite chatty. After bringing all the evidence about 4 year + 1 day rule (e.g., proof of residency established 4 years ago), she ignored it. Basically said that since a US company sent me abroad for work (I had a letter supporting this from my company -- which I provided at my previous interview) and since the last long absence that was within the 5 year statutory period was 8 months, I didn't break continous residency. She adjudicated based on 5 year statutory period (she actually re-checked that box on the cover of the application -- I had marked "other" and wrote in the 4 year + 1 day rule and citation). She spent half the time mumbling that I shouldn't have been denied last time, while flipping through my file, checking dates and making notes. (My last unsuccessful interview was at Federal Plaza with a young Chinese woman.) I mentioned how crazy it was that the other interviewer thought that to maintain continuous residency I should have paid US taxes and not taken foreign tax credit for the UK taxes I paid (i.e., be taxed at 80%). Her exact response was: "She's not IRS". On the one hand, awesome, but on the other, very annoyed with the randomness of adjudication. Honestly, whatever reasonable advice anyone gets on the board, outcome is primarily dependent on which officer you get and how good/bad their day is going.

So, the jury's still out on whether or not 4 year + 1 day rule applies to absences of between 6 months and 1 year, where it's determined that you've broken continous residency.

Good luck to everyone.
 
sh1996 said:
The longer version of the below is in the NYC tracker.

I passed my interview at Garden City, NY this morning. My immigration officer was an older Chinese woman, whose accent was a little hard to understand, but not bad, and was quite chatty. After bringing all the evidence about 4 year + 1 day rule (e.g., proof of residency established 4 years ago), she ignored it. Basically said that since a US company sent me abroad for work (I had a letter supporting this from my company -- which I provided at my previous interview) and since the last long absence that was within the 5 year statutory period was 8 months, I didn't break continous residency. She adjudicated based on 5 year statutory period (she actually re-checked that box on the cover of the application -- I had marked "other" and wrote in the 4 year + 1 day rule and citation). She spent half the time mumbling that I shouldn't have been denied last time, while flipping through my file, checking dates and making notes. (My last unsuccessful interview was at Federal Plaza with a young Chinese woman.) I mentioned how crazy it was that the other interviewer thought that to maintain continuous residency I should have paid US taxes and not taken foreign tax credit for the UK taxes I paid (i.e., be taxed at 80%). Her exact response was: "She's not IRS". On the one hand, awesome, but on the other, very annoyed with the randomness of adjudication. Honestly, whatever reasonable advice anyone gets on the board, outcome is primarily dependent on which officer you get and how good/bad their day is going.

So, the jury's still out on whether or not 4 year + 1 day rule applies to absences of between 6 months and 1 year, where it's determined that you've broken continous residency.

Good luck to everyone.
Click to expand...

Congratulations. The second IO knows what she is talking about. She did the right thing. Well, we'll never know how it goes for the 4 years + 1 day rule for persons with absences between 6 months and 1 year.
 
Applied under 4 year 1 day rule in Feb 2011

Hello

My wife has recently applied for citizenhip under 4 year 1 day rule (Feb 5th 2011)
As suggested by a senior attorney, we have applied 4 years +6 months + 1 day after her long absence
Her long absence was from Nov-03 to Aug-06.
I got the yellow letter yesterday asking for her driver's license.
Following is the documentation we have made for her interview
1) PP, GC, Driver license, Reentry permit, SSN
2) IRS Tax transcripts from 2006 to 2010
3) Bank statements from Sept 06, the day she opened her individual account.
4) School transcripts from India indicating that her long absence was to continue her education.
5) Current US university transcripts indicating she is a student and hence no income.
6) Marriage certificate, my H1B papers (only if needed)

She did have a bank account in 2004 (it is closed now) ,
would it be helpful to get statements for that account to show that she established residency before her long absence?

Also if anyone can suggest any additional documents which can help her in the interview.
Also do we need to carry a copy of the 4 year 1 day rule from uscis site, just in case asked.

Please advise.
Any help is really appreciated,

Thanks
 
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