3 years degree EB3, 140 at NSC - please advice

Hi UnitedNations, ANIL and other Friends

As many of you know my previous I-140 approved but I was laid off. So I'm ready to file my labor from new company.
Please let me know is everything looks ok to you.

H Job opportunity Information
4. Education: Minimum level required:
Bachelor's
5. Is Training required in the job opportunity?
No
6. Is experience in the job offered required for the job?
Yes
6-A. If Yes, number of months experience required:
36
7. Is there an alternate field of study that is acceptable?
Yes
7-a. If Yes, Specify the major field of Study:
Electronics or Computer Science as one of the major subject
8. Is there an alternate combination of education and experience that is acceptable?
Yes
8-A. If Yes, Specify the alternate level of education required:
Other
8-B. If Other is indicated in question 8-A, indicate the alternate level of education required:
Combination of education/experience is acceptable to meet Bachelors degree requyirement.
Associate's degree with Electronics or Computer Science as one of the major subject is acceptable
8-C. If applicable, Indicate the number of years experience acceptable in Question 8:
03 years work experience (Desktop/Network & Data support) in the any pharmacy related business organization and 02 years(Desktop/Network Support) experience in any organization.
9.Is a Foreign education equivalent acceptable?
Yes
10. Is Experience in an alternate occupation acceptable?
No
Thank you
 
adi_gc said:
Hi,

My previous I-140 was denied twice (filed twice using same labor, second time with Sheila’s eval) due to 3 year degree. I started a new PERM and now ready to file I-140. But, I may be in trouble again….please review below,

H section - Job opportunity Information
4. Education: Minimum Level Required- OTHER
4-A. If other is indicated in question 4, specify the education required: BS or EQUIVALENT (EQUIV = 3 YR DEGREE +3 YR WORK EXP OR ADDITIONAL COURSE WORK)
4-B. Major Field of Study: CS, MATH OR PHYSICS
5. Is training required in the job opportunity? NO
6. Is experience in the Job offered required for the job? YES
6-A. If Yes, number of months experience required? 36
7. Is there an alternate of field of Study is acceptable? NO
8. Is there an alternate combination of education and experience that is acceptable? NO
8-A. If Yes, Specify the alternate level of education required:
8-B. If Other is indicated in question 8-A, Indicate the alternate level of education required:
8-C. If applicable, indicate the number of years experience acceptable in question 8:
9. Is a Foreign education equivalent acceptable? YES
10. Is experience in an alternate occupation acceptable? YES
10-A. If Yes, number of months of experience in alternate occupation required: 36
J: Alien Information
11: Education: highest level achieved relevant to the requested occupation: OTHER
11-A: If Other indicated in question 11, specify: BS EQUIVALENT (3 YRS DEGREE + ADITIONAL COURSE WORK)
12. Specify major field of study: PHYSICS
Summary of Educational Evaluation - Trustforte
My 3 year degree from India plus additional post secondary courses (Diplomas) are equivalent to Bachelor’s Degree in CS from a US University

Questions
-Since Question 8 is answered NO, will I be able to combine the education?
-Can I do anything before filing I-140?

Ideal situation would have been to mention ‘Yes’ for question 8, ‘Other’ for question 8A, ‘3 years degree + additional course work’ for question 8B and ‘36months’ for 8C.

My lawyer said that this won’t be a problem because we have mentioned the 3 year degree (alternative) as the primary education requirement (question 4/4A).!!!
I am planning to file I-140 this week and would like your inputs on any options.

Thanks,
ADI
Note:- Total 6 years of experience before joining the current employer
Click to expand...


Hi,
Applied I140 PP on Oct-13th.

My LUD changed on Oct-16, Oct-17 & Oct-18

LUD on my previous case(2nd case) also changed on Oct-16.

I'm little stressed now because I will be completing H1b 6yr within next 6months.......this is my 3rd I140....

Please see my labor details see above...

A001....any thoughts?

Thanks,
Adi
 
A0001

//
Please check USCIS website and NSC proceeding on denials from end year 2002. Attorneys can do Trail and Error methedology but beneficiaries (Like you) needs perfect solutions.

Basically your PERM application drafted neither for your qualification nor for Position do requirements match.

Will you going for new PERM filing which does not require BS?
Did you/attorney find any solution to extend h1 beyond JAN 2007? if NOT let me know.
//


Thanks again, A0001.
1) I tried looking at the USCIS website but could not find details on proceedings/denials. Do you have a URL you could provide me?
2) I did not understand the comment "Basically your PERM application drafted neither for your qualification nor for Position do requirements match." ------ Are you saying that my application was not draftedly properly to take my qualifications and the position that I am applying for?
If yes, you are correct. And it is the alternative req (box 14) that my lawyer is mostly banking on (as was mentioned by UN also)
3) Yes, we are also filing new PERM which does not require Bachelors
4) NO solution yet to extend beyond Jan 2007

much thanks
M
 
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"As many of you know my previous I-140 approved but I was laid off. So I'm ready to file my labor from new company."

--Sorry to hear that Thota. You have overcome many hurdles in the previous process and got to the point of I-140 approval. Are you planning on porting over the PD? I think you should. Are you going to use 3 yr degree = 4 yr degree strategy again? Your answers in PERM form look OK to me.

Good luck.
 
"NO solution yet to extend beyond Jan 2007"

--Maansi, I thought you got advises from all directions to find a way to extend your h1b or h4 beyond Jan'07. How did you come back to square one?

--Anil
 
anilt75, A0001...

"NO solution yet to extend beyond Jan 2007"

--Maansi, I thought you got advises from all directions to find a way to extend your h1b or h4 beyond Jan'07. How did you come back to square one?"

-----------------------------------------

Hi Anil,
Yes, all you guys have been very helpful and I have been given many options in the past couple weeks.
My status at present is:
1) My lawyer is refiling using the approved EB2 labor, in the EB3 category. This is one of the basic questions that I am having -- am I qualified for an EB3 (professional) given the fact that my ETA has alternative education requirement shown in Box 15 on eta 750.
<excerpt from my earlier post follows:
lawyer now says that he will apply for an EB3 for me using the approved EB2 labor -- AND -- that my present education/expereince WILL DEFINITELY qualify for a bachelors in EB3 (even though it didn't fly in EB2)..... not as a skilled labor, but as a prefessional.

Can you pls advise if this is good?

My ETA says "

H.6 - Is exp in the job required for the job - YES
H.6A - If yes, no. of months required - 24
H.7 - Is there an alternate field of study that is acceptable - YES
H.8 - Is there an alternate combination of of education and experience that is acceptable -YES
H.8.A - If yes, specify the alternate level of experience required - BACHELOR'S
H.8.C - If applicable, indiate the no, of yrs of experience - 4
H.9 - Is a foreign educational equivalent acceptable -YES
H.10 - Is exp in an alternate occupation acceptable - YES
H.10.A - If yes, no. of months needed -24
H.14 - ..."Any reasonable combination of education, training and experience is acceptable for the position offered"

What is your opinion, anil?

2) we are also filing for a fresh EB3 labor (using advertisements already out there) -- but since I already have a 140 pending, I am not sure if this EB3 140 would qualify for premium processing? Your thoughts?

3) When I said "NO solution yet to extend beyond Jan 2007" -- I meant I am trying with the options mentioned above, but no concrete resolution thus far.

thanks again
M
 
Maansi,

Your lawyer thinks you "definitely" qualify for the labor under EB3 professional. UN and A0001 seemed to have suggested that focusing on what is mentioned in col# 14, you may give it a shot. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. Dont worry too much about the outcome.You have backup option to file a fresh labor anyways.


"2) We are also filing for a fresh EB3 labor (using advertisements already out there) -- but since I already have a 140 pending, I am not sure if this EB3 140 would qualify for premium processing?"

--A person can have multiple job openings and thus multiple GC processess pending at the same time. This makes me question why not allow multiple cases pending under Premium Processing? Unless you have a case pending in AAO or you are using the same labor for re-filing, I dont think there should be any restriction in your case.This is going to be a new labor right?

"3) When I said "NO solution yet to extend beyond Jan 2007" -- I meant I am trying with the options mentioned above, but no concrete resolution thus far."

--I thought you are going to use 'labor substitution' to get an extension? UN made it clear that you can also switch to h-4 status.Are you confused with more options? :confused:

Anyways.. I know how you feel. But dont waste time. You are getting close to h1b expiration.

*Re-file I-140 under EB3 with approved labor as your lawyer suggested.

*File a fresh labor under EB3. First, make sure your qualifications meet the job requirement in the labor,and second, make sure this package fits in EB3 definition at I-140 level.

*Be ready to file I-140 with another labor for substitution before your H1b expires.

*Be ready to file I-539 to switch h-4.


You have more options than an american citizen.LOL!!

Good luck.
Anil
 
Anil...

Anil,
My responses highlighed in red:

thanks
M

//
Maansi,

Your lawyer thinks you "definitely" qualify for the labor under EB3 professional. UN and A0001 seemed to have suggested that focusing on what is mentioned in col# 14, you may give it a shot. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. Dont worry too much about the outcome.You have backup option to file a fresh labor anyways.
<<M>> - Thanks Anil, I know have a tendency to get paranoid!

"2) We are also filing for a fresh EB3 labor (using advertisements already out there) -- but since I already have a 140 pending, I am not sure if this EB3 140 would qualify for premium processing?"

--A person can have multiple job openings and thus multiple GC processess pending at the same time. This makes me question why not allow multiple cases pending under Premium Processing? Unless you have a case pending in AAO or you are using the same labor for re-filing, I dont think there should be any restriction in your case.This is going to be a new labor right?
<<M>> - Yes, this will be a new labor

"3) When I said "NO solution yet to extend beyond Jan 2007" -- I meant I am trying with the options mentioned above, but no concrete resolution thus far."

--I thought you are going to use 'labor substitution' to get an extension? UN made it clear that you can also switch to h-4 status.Are you confused with more options?
<<M>> - Actually, my employer does not have any preapproved labor from 2005 Dec, which I could possibly use to get a 1 yr extension. H4 is also an option...but I am trying not to go that route

Anyways.. I know how you feel. But dont waste time. You are getting close to h1b expiration.

*Re-file I-140 under EB3 with approved labor as your lawyer suggested.
<<M>> - Yes, we are about to do that. But if you see the latest post frtom UN, he says "Department of labor has come out and said that there is a glitch in labor system that they will deny second perm labor for same beneficiary same company in perm. Even though it may be a different job within the same company.
They have said that until the glitch is fixed; they would require to withdraw or revoke a previously approved labor in perm if you want a subsequent one approved.
Check with lawyer on this. This will be very important for you as it is one of your backup plan"
which makes me think if it would be better to not REFILE using the approved EB2 for an EB3. Instead, just apply for a fresh EB3. This way even if it takes 2 months for the labor to be approved, at least I can be sure of filing 140 under premium processing...so should still have an outcome by Jan mid. Your thoughts?

*File a fresh labor under EB3. First, make sure your qualifications meet the job requirement in the labor,and second, make sure this package fits in EB3 definition at I-140 level.
<<M>> - pls see my comments for the immediate earlier point
*Be ready to file I-140 with another labor for substitution before your H1b expires.
<<M>> - You mean have third backup? How is that different from the point just above? What do we gain out of this?

*Be ready to file I-539 to switch h-4.
<<M>> - yep


You have more options than an american citizen.LOL!!
<<M>> - Yeah, sure!! :rolleyes:
Good luck.
Anil
 
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Thanks UN

"Department of labor has come out and said that there is a glitch in labor system that they will deny second perm labor for same beneficiary same company in perm. Even though it may be a different job within the same company.
They have said that until the glitch is fixed; they would require to withdraw or revoke a previously approved labor in perm if you want a subsequent one approved.
Check with lawyer on this. This will be very important for you as it is one of your backup plan"
--------------------
I am checking with my lawyer...
This makes me think if it would be better to NOT REFILE using the approved EB2, for an EB3. Instead, just apply for a fresh EB3. This way even if it takes 2 months for the labor to be approved, I can be sure of filing 140 under premium processing...so should still have an outcome by Jan mid. Your thoughts?

thanks
M
 
"which makes me think if it would be better to not REFILE using the approved EB2 for an EB3. Instead, just apply for a fresh EB3. This way even if it takes 2 months for the labor to be approved, at least I can be sure of filing 140 under premium processing...so should still have an outcome by Jan mid. Your thoughts?"

--Using approved labor to refile I-140 would definitely take less time than starting a fresh labor. If I were you, I would do both. I would file I-140 PP under EB3 with existing labor. While it is in process, I would start the process of advertising for PERM(takes atleast month I guess). By the time I am up for applying for the PERM(after advertisement etc., is finished), probably I would have a decision on I-140 under PP. Then I can revoke the labor and see the new PERM go through.
 
unitednations said:
Don't want to tell you how to game the system; but

Have company file eb3 perm labor for someone else. If old case gets approved then use new labor for original beneficiary. If old case gets denied; then substitute yourself onto new labor and substitute beneficiary onto old labor.

Again; not within spirit of law but way to get around it for your intended purpose.
Click to expand...


--LOL!! Another caveat from the master mind. Excellent UN.
 
UN, Anil

Thanks, again, guys.

"Don't want to tell you how to game the system; but

Have company file eb3 perm labor for someone else. If old case gets approved then use new labor for original beneficiary. If old case gets denied; then substitute yourself onto new labor and substitute beneficiary onto old labor" -- Good point. The only pit fall that then I would not be able to use premium processing for the EB3 140, as then it becomes substituted labor...correct?

------------------

"Using approved labor to refile I-140 would definitely take less time than starting a fresh labor. If I were you, I would do both. I would file I-140 PP under EB3 with existing labor. While it is in process, I would start the process of advertising for PERM(takes atleast month I guess). By the time I am up for applying for the PERM(after advertisement etc., is finished), probably I would have a decision on I-140 under PP. Then I can revoke the labor and see the new PERM go through" --- Thanks Anil, good point. However, I already have an advertisement which has been out there for 3 months. The timeline I have in mind for the NEW EB3 labor is (assuming that I revoke my existing approved EB2 case):
1) File labor by Oct end
2) labor approved by Dec end
3) file 140 in PP, result back by Jan 10th

sound ok?
thanks
M
 
Alien Signature in ETA form?

My Labor was filled as EB2 in 2002 (Bachelors + 5 yr or Masters), LABOR IS approved, In 2004 there was a change in my Attorney so they filled new form to change attorney. My new attorney sent me email that they are ready to file I-140 under EB3 so I had a discussion why EB3, Now this attorney is telling me that at the time of changing attorney they also filled a new ETA which has requirement of EB3 (Bachelors + 2 yr exp). They never notify me of New ETA I never signed new ETA form so is it possible to file / approve without alien signature on ETA form. Do DOL signs and sent original ETA form or do they enter info in new form for approval purpose and then sent with certification?

Do you think what my attorney is telling that is possible. I work for a big company so hiding anything is not a possibility, My previous manager is no longer with company.
 
kgp said:
My Labor was filled as EB2 in 2002 (Bachelors + 5 yr or Masters), LABOR IS approved, In 2004 there was a change in my Attorney so they filled new form to change attorney. My new attorney sent me email that they are ready to file I-140 under EB3 so I had a discussion why EB3, Now this attorney is telling me that at the time of changing attorney they also filled a new ETA which has requirement of EB3 (Bachelors + 2 yr exp). They never notify me of New ETA I never signed new ETA form so is it possible to file / approve without alien signature on ETA form. Do DOL signs and sent original ETA form or do they enter info in new form for approval purpose and then sent with certification?

Do you think what my attorney is telling that is possible. I work for a big company so hiding anything is not a possibility, My previous manager is no longer with company.
Click to expand...


--There are two ETA forms with traditional labor. One is 750A and the other is 750B. We can say one is related to the employer and the other to the candidate. I have recently requested an amendment on my ETA. They did not send the forms back but asked us to fill in a new form with the amendments and sign it. We filled in the amendment and waiting for the employer's signature. I havent been told of any signature from my side.Will let you know in couple of days.

"Do DOL signs and sent original ETA form or do they enter info in new form for approval purpose and then sent with certification? "

--Procedure is to request the forms back. Sometimes DOL sends them back for us to make the amendment and sign it. But in my case, they just asked us to fill in a new form with the amendments and fax them.
 
Thanks Anil, good point. However, I already have an advertisement which has been out there for 3 months. The timeline I have in mind for the NEW EB3 labor is (assuming that I revoke my existing approved EB2 case):
1) File labor by Oct end
2) labor approved by Dec end
3) file 140 in PP, result back by Jan 10th

--Use old labor and apply I-140 in EB3 Premium Processing TODAY.If you had done this about a week ago, you would have had some decision by October end. See the fate of the old labor come through. If you dont get some outcome by November first week, start another process for a different person like UN said.You can substitute yourself on that labor later. This is as good as it gets Maansi.
 
Un

Depends where your company is located. If labor is being processed by Chicago they are real fast. If it is being processed by Atlanta then it can be real slow.
sound ok?
thanks
M
//

Hi UN,
My company is located in Chicago.

<btw; what are you waiting for. This has been going on for a week or so, hasn't it? Your lawyer should have already filed in eb3 for you> -- yes, he is on the verge. Just that we are trying to wade through these issues. Like you pointed out, "Department of labor has come out and said that there is a glitch in labor system that they will deny second perm labor for same beneficiary same company in perm. Even though it may be a different job within the same company" -- so I am trying to ensure that we don't REFILE the EB2 and that jeopardizes even the fresh EB3 labor...since that is my best hope (the fresh EB3)

thanks
M
 
UN/Anilt

My I-140 got denied based on edu issues in eb3 proffisional (Labor Sub)?
Is it possiable to refile in Eb3 skilled worker in PP? Please advice me.

Thanks,
 
surabhi said:
UN/Anilt

My I-140 got denied based on edu issues in eb3 proffisional (Labor Sub)?
Is it possiable to refile in Eb3 skilled worker in PP? Please advice me.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

--Sorry to hear that Surabhi. Post all the details. Labor requirements, your credentials and the RFE text. Someone can assess your situation then.
 
EB3 - I-140 Denial (Skilled Labor)

I have 3 year Diploma in Engineering, 3 year Bachelor or Arts, Certificate in Computing and couple of certifications, computer courses. Total of 9 year experience at the time of applying LC (2003).

Last week my I-140 was denied by NSC in EB3-Skilled Labor category. :mad:

My form ETA750-A shows 4 year and Bachelor's in the College requirement (#14) "but" in the Major Field of Study section under College education, it refers to an "Addendum to PartA" where "descriptive requirements" are listed. Those requirements clearly state "acceptance of Bachelor's or 3 year degree with 2 year experience, or any equivalent combination of degree(s) and experience in any of the relevant fields."

Denial notice says that Educational Evaluation is for 3 year degree plus experience equating to a 4 yr Bachelors. Denial letter states that combination is not allowed towards Bachelors. :eek:

My attorney suggested filing a motion. It is evident that INS totally "overlooked" the detail written in the addendum to item 14 in ETA750 and just read into partial info from the item 14 boxes.

I am quite stressed out since I have heard that percentage of success in appeals is quite low. Would appreciate any expert opinion on this. United Nations, please help. My 6 year end in March'07. During the appeal time, is it possible to get an extension?
 
MunDog,

Your labor allows for the combination. From what I heard, they should approve I-140 if the labor allows for combination.Filing a motion could get your case approved. Attorney has to bring officer's attention to the addendum where it is specifically mentioned that degree can be combined with experience.

Good luck.
 
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