3 years degree EB3, 140 at NSC - please advice

[nscvictim]

Absolutely. NSC can revoke your I-140 if TSC has approved erroneously. I am also a victim of I-140 denial without RFE. You are lucky that TSC has approved it.

I dont think they have approved it errorneously cause my 140 took literally 4 months to be approved. I am still thinking they are just looking for all my documents i even read it on a website here that your 485 cant be denied because u have 3 year degree(with eval) after your 140 has been succesfully approved(non errorneously). I made sure to submit my eval to tsc as well.

let me add more detail

i have a 3 year degree with eval done for 4 year us degree. my 140 was approved at tsc as eb2 pd: 02/01. I already have a dependent 485(name check cleared rd 06/2002) at nsc so i decided to use my 140 to get the approval. now nsc does NOT have any of my papers that i filed for 140 because my lawyer just sent the 140 approval to nsc and asked a senator to expedite and so the process started and now i got a rfc saying please provide a collegiate degree along with some employer stuff and pretty much tons of documentation required to file a EB 485. I know how ruthless nsc is but can a 485 be denied because u have a 3 year indian degree with eval even though your 140 is approved at TSC.

 

[kissaGCka]

I-140 revocation during I-485 stage

Hi unittednations and all otheres here:

I was keenly following this forum recently and seeing some cases got their I-140 revoked during I-485 stages if I-140 was approved erroneously. How do we make sure that one's case is not approved erroneously? If it was not erroneously is there chance that during I-485 stage NSC will again re-validate the case of I-140 because case had 3 year degree.

Here are the details of my case.

I have 3 year enginnering degree and 8 years of industry exp. I recently got I-140 approval from TSC in EB2 from company A and company B. Off-course there was RFE on my education in case of company A application.

I am planning to shift to company B on H1B1 and conticue my process for I-485 when the date becomes current.

Question to all: what are the potential risks during I-485 stage because my case I-140 was approved with 3 year engineering?

Is it good idea to shirt to company before I-485 filing and approval? or wait until I-485 approval and then transfer to it?

Your opinions will really help in taking my decision and decide how to proceed?

thanks a lot

 

[kissaGCka]

I guess most of my questions were unanswered. I have no intention to work on EAd just in case I would be eligible rather I prefer to remain on H1B extension based on I-140. But I am planning to shift to company B after I get my H1B extension for 3 years from company A and continue to work on H1B. But during the I-485 stage if NSC revokes my I-140 what happens to H1 status? Were there any such instances I-140 was revoked when it was approved by TSC(Assuming it was not approved erroneously. My case was evaluated in detail with CE before I-140 was applied).

Hope I get response. Thans for your valuable time.

My number one advice to all people is to stay on H-1 until you finally get the greencard. Many things can change, uscis memos can change, there could be a more narrow definition of existing laws and this can all be done retroactively.

With the whole immigration issue thing going on; there will be a movement that if/when there is some sort of relief, it will come with very, very strict enforcement of current immigration laws. Back in 2002-2003 USCIS went to a zero tolerance policy. They loosened it up a little but they could go back to zero tolerance. If/when this happens, it will make life very, very difficult.

 

[GCdreamzz]

Approved Labor - Should I file I 140 or Send back for amendment

UnitedNations,

I have been going thru the forum and I tried to find my problem but I didnot get to it...

My Situation:
My labor was approved yesterday after a wait for 3 Years and 5 months from BEC. Last 5 months back my attorney send a amendment to my case for changing the BOX #15 to include Equivalency or combination" as I have a 3 years degree + MBA + 1 Year PGDCA. Now I have received the approved labor with out the amendment.

My Concern:
Can I go ahead with filing I 140 or Can I go back to BEC and request to change the BOX# 15 - Will they do that for a approved labor..I am sure i will be taking a chance if I go ahead with filing I 140 with this approved labor.

Please advice.

Regards,
GCDreamzz.

 

[GCdreamzz]

Thanks for the quick reply.
Just now I got a message from my attorney stating that actually BEC have amended my labor - "Huh! What a relief at my end"...

But thanks for your suggestion anyways.

- It's been 3 years since you are here ...helping so many of us - thanks again.

DOL is on record that they won't amend the labor once it is approved.

However; if you can prove that you tried to amend it before they approved it, you will have a better chance for DOL to do it.

This could take some time though.

 

[GCOnly]

Will my I-140 get approved by NSC?

United Nations and Other gurus:
My I-140 application is in pending status with Nebraska center since April 11, 2006. My basic qualification is 10 + 2 + 3 + 2.
Graduation being 3 year degree in CBZ (Chemistry, Botany and Zoology) and the PG Qualification being 2 years PG Diploma in Business Management. My Educational qualifications have been evaluated by an accredited evaluation agency here in USA to be US Equalent of Bachelor's Degree in Science and Management.
In my labor application, Box # 14 and Box # 15 are exactly as specified below:

Box # 14:
College Degree Required: Bachelor of Science or Equivalent*
Major Field of Study: Any
Experience: 2 years.
Related Occupation: Consultant, Software Engineer or related

Box # 15:
*Equivalent means foreign degree(s) determined by a recognized credential evaluation agency to be the equivalent to a Bachelor's degree from an accredited U.S. University. Employer will accept one year of experience related to the offered position for each year of education not completed towards degree.

Other special requirements:
Normal requirements include: (And, I have been specified to exactly have all of the skill set and experience that is required for the job offered)

Based on the above info what do you think are the chances of my I-140 being approved or rejected? Any help/advise is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

 

[boston_LC]

Hi UN and others,,I have posted this before but got no response. I will appreciate if you could respond.

My labor has said no degree+5 years or BS with 3 years experience ...will that be an issue. I don't have any degree. just a diploma .
My education is really 10+3 (and I had 7 yrs exp. when my labor was filed)
Although i have finished BSCS after my labor was filed from USA and I am doing my MBA now.

lawyer said --since they already mentioned no degree with 5 years exp. so shud n't be a problem

By the way, I haven't applied I140 yet . waiting for labor approval which can come any time now.

any commends ???

 

[GCOnly]

Thank you so much UnitedNations for the quick response. I hope I get the approval soon God willing.

 

[boston_LC]

Thanks UN.

Here is what it says in box 14:
1) numbers of years of education *****points to Addendum
2) enter training -- its blank
2) numbers of years of exp. says 3 and then -- ******points to Addendum as well
3) education = bachelor or equlant.

*****Addendum is ----- no degree and 5 years of related exp.

 

[anilt75]

Item in blue is what will get you approved. It allows combination.

I am afraid it is not a slamdunk case. NSC made it clear in many RFEs that the number of years in experience cannot be equated/substituted to/for academic years in education.They also suggest that this is acceptable for H1B but not for permanent residency.

Sometimes luck favors and people do get approvals.

 

[boston_LC]

I am afraid it is not a slamdunk case. NSC made it clear in many RFEs that the number of years in experience cannot be equated/substituted to/for academic years in education.They also suggest that this is acceptable for H1B but not for permanent residency.

Sometimes luck favors and people do get approvals.

so does that mean people with 4 years bachelor Degree can get GC . I bet there are big population of H1Bs who are not having 4 year degree but rather they have BA,BSC,BCOM or a diploma etc....

 

[pathan786]

3 yr Diploma ready to file I140 at NSC... Pls HELP !!!

Hi,

I have a 3 yr diploma in Computer Engineering (10+2+3) from India and total 8+ yrs of IT experience, 4.5 yrs in US. Employer is getting ready to file I-140 (PERM appoved in Jun 2006). Looking at 3 yr degree problem at I-140 stage I am looking to file it right first time even if it means re-filing labor.

Going by posts in this forum it seems like-

It would be much safer to present the case as "skilled labor" instead of "skilled professional" since edu evaluation of 3 yr diploma/bachelor degree to 4 yr US bachelors doesnt seem to work ALL the time.

Please let me know what "exact" wordings should be used for the PERM petition (form 9089), Section H:

4. Education: minimum level required: None/high school/Associate/Bachelors/Masters/Doctorate/Other

4-A. If Other is indicated in question 4, specify the education required:

4-B. Major field of study:

5. Is training required in the job opportunity? Yes/No

5-A. If Yes, number of months of training required:

5-B. Indicate the field of training:

6. Is experience in the job offered required for the job? Yes/No

6-A. If Yes, number of months experience required:

7. Is there an alternate field of study that is acceptable?

7-A. If Yes, specify the major field of study:

8. Is there an alternate combination of education and experience that is acceptable? Yes/No

8-A. If Yes, specify the alternate level of education required:
None/High School/ Associate/Bachelors/Master/Doctorate/Other

8-B. If Other is indicated in question 8-A, indicate the alternate level of education required:

8-C. If applicable, indicate the number of years experience acceptable in question 8:

9. Is a foreign educational equivalent acceptable?

10. Is experience in an alternate occupation acceptable? Yes/No

10-A. If Yes, number of months experience in alternate
occupation required:


I am not sure if my Employer's attorney is aware of the complexity involved with 3 yr degree at I-140 stage...

Someone please help !!!!

Thanks,
PK

 

[GCOnly]

I am afraid it is not a slamdunk case. NSC made it clear in many RFEs that the number of years in experience cannot be equated/substituted to/for academic years in education.They also suggest that this is acceptable for H1B but not for permanent residency.

Sometimes luck favors and people do get approvals.

I know we can never be sure if a case will be approved if there's even slightest doubt about not meeting the requirements in a particular case. I also know that mine is not a slam dunk clear case that can be approved by NSC either.
Sometimes luck does play a role in situations such as these. But, it seems that luck doesn't play any role at all nowadays at NSC. So, I am still keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best that my case will be approved by NSC. Hope is what keeps us alive and happy.
I shall update you all as soon as any outcome is determined on my case.

 

[anilt75]

that is quite incorrect. it seems this is a very misunderstood issue.

Let's go through the basics.

Company files a labor because they couldn't find a u.s. citizen or permanent resident to fulfill the job.

The labor has requirements of the job. Year of experience, duties education requirement.

It is upto the company and the candidate to show uscis that they meet the criteria of the labor.

USCIS position is that if the labor only specifices u.s. bachelors or equivalent then the person using the labor has to have a full four year degree.

If they don't have a full four year degree then they are not qualified for the labor.

If the labor specifically allows for combination of education or work experience to get to the bachelors equivalency then the person using the labor can use combination to show they meet the requirements of the labor.

Therefore:

Labor lists requirements

Company and you have to show you meet the requirements.

--I wish NSC implements the policy just as you interpreted. My case is caught in the same web too. But sadly, that's not the case. There are many posts on this forum with RFE statements from NSC.They did not honor such job requirements(substituting experience for education) mentioned in the labor certification.

Policies,regulations or laws can be dictated and interpreted in many different ways.

On top of it, NSC didnt give a jot to guiding memos wrt 140 adjudications on 3-year degree holders combining experience or whatever.NSC has been handling these cases like blindfolded horses with a tunnel vision.

 

[anilt75]

I know we can never be sure if a case will be approved if there's even slightest doubt about not meeting the requirements in a particular case. I also know that mine is not a slam dunk clear case that can be approved by NSC either.
Sometimes luck does play a role in situations such as these. But, it seems that luck doesn't play any role at all nowadays at NSC. So, I am still keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best that my case will be approved by NSC. Hope is what keeps us alive and happy.
I shall update you all as soon as any outcome is determined on my case.

--Very true.I did not mean to scare you or sound negative about the outcome. I wish you all the luck. But I was just making it clear that this is not "it-wil-be-approved" case and you would not take it as "granted" but look for other backup options if you wish to do so.

Ofcourse every case has scope for error and subject to denial depnding on the way it is petitioned , processesed and adjudicated. Beneficiary can only hope for the best.However, based on the specific details you mentioned("education vis-a-vis experience") and the RFEs issued by NSC in the past, I would put it as 50/50 case.Could I be wrong? I wish I am wrong and you get an approval.

There is one guy called Ashok from Murthy Forums I guess.He combined education with experience. Got an RFE and got it approved by NSC eventually.But then again there are others. Who just couldnt get past the RFE that clearly stated: "H1B criterion is different from permanent residency. Unlike H1b, experience cannot substitute education."

--Good luck

 

[anilt75]

so does that mean people with 4 years bachelor Degree can get GC . I bet there are big population of H1Bs who are not having 4 year degree but rather they have BA,BSC,BCOM or a diploma etc....

--USCIS has been lenient toward 3-year degrees or combination of multiple degrees/diplomas being equated to 4 year bachelor's degree in the past.So we see a whole of bunch 3-year degree people with permanent residency.

Lately however, USCIS uncovered the issue and started to impose this strict regulation on educational requirement wrt foreign degrees.

I dont think entire community of immigration lawyers is a bunch a bozos. They have gotten "used to" getting approvals for unconventional degrees in the past. We have a whole pile of cases stuck in BECs that are coming out now. 9 out of 10 cases(3-year degree) have the same strategy implemented.

This + That = 4-Year B.S in US.

NSC gets irritated!!


Now to the point. Is it impossible to get a GC without 4-year degree? Not its not impossible. You can do EB3 under skilled worker category that requires no college level education but mere experience in the relevant field.

 

[pathan786]

anilt75, United Nations please help !!

Hi, My previous post remained unanswered, could some generous soul let me know what should be the wordings on following questions for perm petition for 3 year Diploma in Computer Engg (15 yrs education), 8+ years of experience in related field...I want to re-file perm properly but the lawyer is not getting my point of view with regards to 3 year degree/diploma problem with I-140.


4. Education: minimum level required: None/high school/Associate/Bachelors/Masters/Doctorate/Other

4-A. If Other is indicated in question 4, specify the education required:

4-B. Major field of study:

5. Is training required in the job opportunity? Yes/No

5-A. If Yes, number of months of training required:

5-B. Indicate the field of training:

6. Is experience in the job offered required for the job? Yes/No

6-A. If Yes, number of months experience required:

7. Is there an alternate field of study that is acceptable?

7-A. If Yes, specify the major field of study:

8. Is there an alternate combination of education and experience that is acceptable? Yes/No

8-A. If Yes, specify the alternate level of education required: None/High School/ Associate/Bachelors/Master/Doctorate/Other

8-B. If Other is indicated in question 8-A, indicate the alternate level of education required:

8-C. If applicable, indicate the number of years experience acceptable in question 8:

9. Is a foreign educational equivalent acceptable? Yes/No

10. Is experience in an alternate occupation acceptable? Yes/No

10-A. If Yes, number of months experience in alternate occupation required:

Thanks!!
PK

 

[kissaGCka]

Hi pathan,

My case was pretty much same as yours. I got my approval after initial RFE on my education. It was from TSC though. I think you should have proper CE attached to support your qualifications. I think for people with 3 year engg. it should not be a problem in getting the I-140 approval. It was from my exp.

Though I can not anwer your questions but do not loose confidence in this I-140 process. If your attorney is good enough it should not be a problem

Wish you good luck.

Hi, My previous post remained unanswered, could some generous soul let me know what should be the wordings on following questions for perm petition for 3 year Diploma in Computer Engg (15 yrs education), 8+ years of experience in related field...I want to re-file perm properly but the lawyer is not getting my point of view with regards to 3 year degree/diploma problem with I-140.


4. Education: minimum level required: None/high school/Associate/Bachelors/Masters/Doctorate/Other

4-A. If Other is indicated in question 4, specify the education required:

4-B. Major field of study:

5. Is training required in the job opportunity? Yes/No

5-A. If Yes, number of months of training required:

5-B. Indicate the field of training:

6. Is experience in the job offered required for the job? Yes/No

6-A. If Yes, number of months experience required:

7. Is there an alternate field of study that is acceptable?

7-A. If Yes, specify the major field of study:

8. Is there an alternate combination of education and experience that is acceptable? Yes/No

8-A. If Yes, specify the alternate level of education required: None/High School/ Associate/Bachelors/Master/Doctorate/Other

8-B. If Other is indicated in question 8-A, indicate the alternate level of education required:

8-C. If applicable, indicate the number of years experience acceptable in question 8:

9. Is a foreign educational equivalent acceptable? Yes/No

10. Is experience in an alternate occupation acceptable? Yes/No

10-A. If Yes, number of months experience in alternate occupation required:

Thanks!!
PK

 

[boston_LC]

--USCIS has been lenient toward 3-year degrees or combination of multiple degrees/diplomas being equated to 4 year bachelor's degree in the past.So we see a whole of bunch 3-year degree people with permanent residency.

Lately however, USCIS uncovered the issue and started to impose this strict regulation on educational requirement wrt foreign degrees.

I dont think entire community of immigration lawyers is a bunch a bozos. They have gotten "used to" getting approvals for unconventional degrees in the past. We have a whole pile of cases stuck in BECs that are coming out now. 9 out of 10 cases(3-year degree) have the same strategy implemented.

This + That = 4-Year B.S in US.

NSC gets irritated!!


Now to the point. Is it impossible to get a GC without 4-year degree? Not its not impossible. You can do EB3 under skilled worker category that requires no college level education but mere experience in the relevant field.

Anil -
can u tell me where in labor it says skilled worker ? My labor does say "no degree with5 years" like you mentioned. Just wanna make sure they filed it as "skilled worker" only.

 

[anilt75]

Anil -
can u tell me where in labor it says skilled worker ? My labor does say "no degree with5 years" like you mentioned. Just wanna make sure they filed it as "skilled worker" only.

--EB category and respective sub-categories like "skilled worker", "professional" or "exceptional ability" etc., are NOT determined in labor certification process.It is done at I-140 level.

However, requirements for the job are market-tested by the DOL before certifying a labor petition.

At I-140 level, a certified labor is what paves way to EB category. Using the qualification guidelines of EB category and the certified labor, immigration lawyers petition I-140 under a specific category.
Just because EB category is not determined at labor level, it does not mean that any job requirement mentioned in the labor would fly with any category at I140 level.

With that in mind, to answer you question, I dont think there is any scope for you to mention at labor level whether you are seeking "skilled worker" category or some other category.

However, your job requirement states that it degree is not a requirement and 5 years of experience is. Now, if certified, your labor qualifies you to pursue "skilled worker" category at I-140 level.Double check with your attorney when you get to that stage. Dont let them just toss out your application to the USCIS.

Based on what you have and where you are headed, I can say that your attorney knows what he/she is doing and your case must be a smooth ride!!

Good luck