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Residence vs. Domicile in the US

A

adalb

New Member
Hi guys,

I am wondering if someone of you could enlighten me about the difference between "domicile" and "residence" in the US (if such a distinction actually exists!).

If I am understanding it correctly, domicile is more a permanent place where one lives, while residence is more a temporary place. Is it right?
In particular, is residence or domicile that is usually reported in legal documents?

A related question regards immigration with DV visa. Do I need to "move" residence or domicile in the US to maintain my immigrant status?

Thanks,
Adalb
 
I've never heard the term domicile used in anything to do with the process so far...I guess it's the same as residence. Residence is where you live. It's permanent.
And yes, you will lose your green card if you are deemed to have abandoned residency. A US address (that is not occupied by another family), paying US taxes, where your job is, bank account, drivers license etc are all things they look at. You can do an Internet search on losing your green card due to not meeting residency requirements to learn more.
 
Thanks SusieQQQ for your reply.

I am aware of the fact that I need to move there permanently, pay taxes, etc. My last questions was more like: which one of the two (domicile or residence) do I have to "move" there? (sorry for the bad English :oops:). But since you said they're actually the same thing, that question is actually meaningless.

The confusion in my head originated from the fact that there are two Italian terms (residenza and domicilio) that are really close to the English terms (residence and domicile), but have 2 distinct meanings (the former is the "legal" place where one lives, the one that is reported on passport for example. The latter can be a secondary house where I live for some time).

The reason for asking these questions is that I contacted some Italian health insurance companies and they say that I will be covered (for a certain period) in the US with a simple travel health insurance provided that my residence stays in Italy for that period.
Is this something that can be actually feasible in your opinion? I mean, not changing the residence address for the first period. Or is it something that is automatically done once you pass through POE?
If I can ask...How did you do with health insurance for the first period?
 
adalb said:
Thanks SusieQQQ for your reply.

I am aware of the fact that I need to move there permanently, pay taxes, etc. My last questions was more like: which one of the two (domicile or residence) do I have to "move" there? (sorry for the bad English :oops:). But since you said they're actually the same thing, that question is actually meaningless.

The confusion in my head originated from the fact that there are two Italian terms (residenza and domicilio) that are really close to the English terms (residence and domicile), but have 2 distinct meanings (the former is the "legal" place where one lives, the one that is reported on passport for example. The latter can be a secondary house where I live for some time).

The reason for asking these questions is that I contacted some Italian health insurance companies and they say that I will be covered (for a certain period) in the US with a simple travel health insurance provided that my residence stays in Italy for that period.
Is this something that can be actually feasible in your opinion? I mean, not changing the residence address for the first period. Or is it something that is automatically done once you pass through POE?
If I can ask...How did you do with health insurance for the first period?
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Essentially domiciled and residence in this case mean the same thing as you have said.

The problem with relying on travel insurance, is the "provided that my residence stays in Italy for that period". The day you activate your Green Card you become a "Lawful Permanent Resident" (LPR) of the USA. So - technically you have established that you have emigrated and taken legal residence in the USA. That would give the travel insurance company an "out" because if they find that you have declared residence in the USA they can easily claim your journey was not just a temporary trip. So - it is a risky move. Remember, healthcare incidents in the USA can have HUGE bills (hundreds of thousands of dollars). Travel policies rarely cover that much and if you try and claim a substantial sum, you can be sure they look for ways not to pay.
 
You're trying to game the system, as the travel insurance is clearly meant to cover a temporary stay (hence requiring domicile in Italy). Well, I'd say you do need to get health cover as soon as possible. Apart from anything else, having used travel insurance in the US before (when I was actually travelling, yes!) I can tell you that an ER visit without local insurance requires payment upfront (that was $1200 in my case) and you then claim from your insurer later. So that italian address, bank account etc required by the insurer may not just be a legal hypothetical thing but something they use to pay you back...
 
Absolutely right on that score Susie. Anyone who is thinking a travel insurance health package can/will cover them for a while need to be aware of the fact that they will actually be paying upfront for any medical service received. The service provider will not file a claim with the insurance company, which means the hospitals/doctors get to slam you with the highest fee they can possibly charge since there's no negotiated fee in place with the insurance company.

After paying with an arm and a leg to the service provider, the nightmare will then continue as the insurance company look for loopholes to avoid reimbursing whatever it is you've paid upfront to the medical service provider.
 
SusieQQQ said:
You're trying to game the system, as the travel insurance is clearly meant to cover a temporary stay (hence requiring domicile in Italy). Well, I'd say you do need to get health cover as soon as possible. Apart from anything else, having used travel insurance in the US before (when I was actually travelling, yes!) I can tell you that an ER visit without local insurance requires payment upfront (that was $1200 in my case) and you then claim from your insurer later. So that italian address, bank account etc required by the insurer may not just be a legal hypothetical thing but something they use to pay you back...
Click to expand...
Sm1smom said:
Absolutely right on that score Susie. Anyone who is thinking a travel insurance health package can/will cover them for a while need to be aware of the fact that they will actually be paying upfront for any medical service received. The service provider will not file a claim with the insurance company, which means the hospitals/doctors get to slam you with the highest fee they can possibly charge since there's no negotiated fee in place with the insurance company.

After paying with an arm and a leg to the service provider, the nightmare will then continue as the insurance company look for loopholes to avoid reimbursing whatever it is you've paid upfront to the medical service provider.
Click to expand...

There are actually travel insurance that pay everything upfront and you don't have to take money out of your pocket, but I'm sure they will claim their money back if they find something that breaches the contract. So that's not the point.
I don't absolutely want to game the system (the last thing I want is to pay for an insurance that doesn't cover anything, so that I end up paying more than not having an insurance at all!), I was just trying to understand if choosing that type of insurance was something feasible. It's not, so I won't buy it! :)

SusieQQQ said:
There are some providers that provide emigrant, or one-way, travel insurance that covers emigrants for a short time while they arrange permanent cover. Here is a British example : http://www.go-walkabout.co.uk/one_way_travel_insurance.php
I don't speak Italian so I can't browse italian sites for these but maybe the OP should be considering this rather.
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Thanks SusieQQQ, I was not aware of this type of one-way travel insurances. Something that will cover me temporarily untill I find a job in the US is what I'm looking for. I will have a look at them and try to find something similar that applies to Italian cases.
 
adalb said:
There are actually travel insurance that pay everything upfront and you don't have to take money out of your pocket, but I'm sure they will claim their money back if they find something that breaches the contract. So that's not the point.
I don't absolutely want to game the system (the last thing I want is to pay for an insurance that doesn't cover anything, so that I end up paying more than not having an insurance at all!),
Click to expand...

Really??? I don't think you understand the billing system of the US medical industry. Do you know of anyone else in the US who was able to use this travel insurance and didn't have to pay the medical service provider upfront?

You know for a fact that this insurance company has a contract in place with all the medical service providers in the US which compels they to directly file a claim with the insurance company in place of charging the patient directly?

I highly doubt that is the case because prior to Obama care, medical service provider were charging patients with insurance coverage in the US where there's no negotiated contract in place directly upfront. They do not file claims directly with the insurance company, it's the patient's responsibility to go claim their money back from the insurance company. And I'm talking about highly reputable and established insurance companies within the US.
 
Sm1smom said:
Really??? I don't think you understand the billing system of the US medical industry. Do you know of anyone else in the US who was able to use this travel insurance and didn't have to pay the medical service provider upfront?

You know for a fact that this insurance company has a contract in place with all the medical service providers in the US which compels they to directly file a claim with the insurance company in place of charging the patient directly?

I highly doubt that is the case because prior to Obama care, medical service provider were charging patients with insurance coverage in the US where there's no negotiated contract in place directly upfront. They do not file claims directly with the insurance company, it's the patient's responsibility to go claim their money back from the insurance company. And I'm talking about highly reputable and established insurance companies within the US.
Click to expand...

Well, I bought these kind of insurances a couple of times but never had to "use" them (fortunately). I know at least two respectable insurance companies (not just online companies) that offer such insurances.
In the contract, they clearly state that the insurance company "garantisce il pagamento diretto delle spese mediche solo previo il contatto con la Centrale Operativa", which means that they guarantee to pay your medical bill directly upfront only provided that you call the operations center before going to the hospital. I guess they will direct you to some medical service providers that have a sort of a contract with them. They also state that if you don't call the operations center, they will still pay for your medical expenses, but you need to pay in advance and then file for a reimbursment.

I am not an expert of travel insurances, nor an expert of the US medical industry at all, but that's written in the contract.
My guess is that they were able to establish these kind of contracts with US medical centers because they have to limit selling insurances to non-US residents (this is another clause of the contract). In this respect they work differently from US insurance companies.
 
Well, you need to be very careful about that, and also you may not have time to call upfront and arrange. What if you are in an accident?
 
SusieQQQ said:
Well, you need to be very careful about that, and also you may not have time to call upfront and arrange. What if you are in an accident?
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Yes, I know! In case of a real emergency that won't be possible.
Anyway, since the non-US residency rule applies to those travel insurances, for the next time I will go to the US (soon!!! :D) I will need to find something else! ;)
 
adalb said:
Well, I bought these kind of insurances a couple of times but never had to "use" them (fortunately). I know at least two respectable insurance companies (not just online companies) that offer such insurances.
In the contract, they clearly state that the insurance company "garantisce il pagamento diretto delle spese mediche solo previo il contatto con la Centrale Operativa", which means that they guarantee to pay your medical bill directly upfront only provided that you call the operations center before going to the hospital. I guess they will direct you to some medical service providers that have a sort of a contract with them. They also state that if you don't call the operations center, they will still pay for your medical expenses, but you need to pay in advance and then file for a reimbursment.

I am not an expert of travel insurances, nor an expert of the US medical industry at all, but that's written in the contract.
My guess is that they were able to establish these kind of contracts with US medical centers because they have to limit selling insurances to non-US residents (this is another clause of the contract). In this respect they work differently from US insurance companies.
Click to expand...

Well then, go for it if you're certain it's worth it.
 
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