N400 question with extensive stay outside US

F

fruityloops

New Member
Hi, I asked these questions in another forum and would like to get some opinions here as well.
I asked something similar an year ago and now I'm seriously considering applying for citizenship, i would like to get all my ducks in order.

I would like to know if USCIS only takes a look at the last 5 years of travel history for naturalization or your entire travel history whilst being a LPR?

I've been a LPR for more than 20 years but most of the time was spent outside the US (5+ years at a time sometimes). I've been in the US now for 6 years or so, working, filing taxes etc.. I would also like to add that I only got my SSN and DL in the past 6 years without any issues.
I was wondering if the extended stays outside US would cause a problem even though now I've been in the US for more than the prerequisite time of 5 years and have maintained continuous residency and physical presence.

Everything I've read on USCIS's website and the different USCIS publications seem to point towards USCIS only caring about the last 5 years of residency and that you received your PR legally in the first place (which I did) but I often read here on the forums members saying that USCIS might consider the PR abandoned because I stayed out more than 1 year (I personally know of at least people who were let in by CBP without any issues even when they stayed out 1+ years out. They had no returning permits).
Does this mean that USCIS will look at more than the past 5 years worth of travel?

I would also like to point out that the last time I entered the US was via land and at the POE the CBP officer just looked at my passport and let me through, he didn't stamp it or swipe it etc. But in my experience, that's very normal when crossing from Canada to US.
Would this pose any problems? The reason I ask this is because I'm unsure of what I was let in as. I even tried looking up on I-94 website and couldn't find a record though some others do show up from 2010-2013 etc. though even they have some incorrect information regarding how long i stayed out/in of US.
I'm not even sure if it matters since I am a PR but would still like some clarification.

Thanks!
 
Can you clarify something, when you said “I would also like to point out that the last time I entered the US was via land and at the POE the CBP officer just looked at my passport and let me through”, did you present your green card as well?
And when was this?
 
It’s my understanding, possibly flawed, that if you did not present a green card (or reentry document or other acceptable evidence of I551) then you were not admitted as an LPR. I presume whatever passport you presented doesn’t require a visa for the US?

Also the top of p2 of the eligibility worksheet asks if you have ever been out the US longer than 6 months since becoming an LPR, and if so what proof you have that you maintained ties. No tax returns for 14 years could be an issue, if I understood correctly that you’ve only filed tax returns for the past 6 years.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/article/attachments.pdf

Further on this, while most questions indeed pertain to residence in the past 5 years, part 12, question 7A of the N400 application also asks if you have ever failed to file a tax return since becoming an LPR.
https://www.uscis.gov/system/files_force/files/form/n-400.pdf?download=1

An applicant who is a lawfully admitted permanent resident of the United States, but who voluntarily claims nonresident alien status to qualify for special exemptions from income tax liability, or fails to file either federal or state income tax returns because he or she considers himself or herself to be a nonresident alien, raises a rebuttable presumption that the applicant has relinquished the privileges of permanent resident status in the United States.
(I mean, what reason for not filing tax did you have other than living elsewhere which is the same as considering yourself nonresident?)
https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView...1261/0-0-0-30960/0-0-0-31016.html#0-0-0-19579

I would have a suspicion that you had abandoned your LPR status at some stage in the past, as a combination of your long absences and multiyear failure to file tax returns. Just because you had a green card initially and have been let back in (possibly as a tourist not LPR judging by your previous comments) and have filed taxes more recently, does not “prove” that you are still a legal LPR. Your efforts over the past 5 years are possibly attempting to preserve a status that had already been lost. If I were in your shoes, I’d contact uscis to find out what your actual status is in the US before applying for naturalization.

One more thing: if you’re male and were 18-25 at any time since becoming an LPR, did you register for selective service?

Of course, you could take the chance and hope they do only focus on the past 5 years and ignore what happened before. Personally I think that’s a big risk; ymmv.
 
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SusieQQQ said:
Can you clarify something, when you said “I would also like to point out that the last time I entered the US was via land and at the POE the CBP officer just looked at my passport and let me through”, did you present your green card as well?
And when was this?
Click to expand...

I did not.
The officer didn't ask me for it and I was too taken aback at his abrupt command to go on to do anything else.

This was in 2013.
 
SusieQQQ said:
It’s my understanding, possibly flawed, that if you did not present a green card (or reentry document or other acceptable evidence of I551) then you were not admitted as an LPR. I presume whatever passport you presented doesn’t require a visa for the US?

Also the top of p2 of the eligibility worksheet asks if you have ever been out the US longer than 6 months since becoming an LPR, and if so what proof you have that you maintained ties. No tax returns for 14 years could be an issue, if I understood correctly that you’ve only filed tax returns for the past 6 years.

Further on this, while most questions indeed pertain to residence in the past 5 years, part 12, question 7A of the N400 application also asks if you have ever failed to file a tax return since becoming an LPR.

An applicant who is a lawfully admitted permanent resident of the United States, but who voluntarily claims nonresident alien status to qualify for special exemptions from income tax liability, or fails to file either federal or state income tax returns because he or she considers himself or herself to be a nonresident alien, raises a rebuttable presumption that the applicant has relinquished the privileges of permanent resident status in the United States.
(I mean, what reason for not filing tax did you have other than living elsewhere which is the same as considering yourself nonresident?)

I would have a suspicion that you had abandoned your LPR status at some stage in the past, as a combination of your long absences and multiyear failure to file tax returns. Just because you had a green card initially and have been let back in (possibly as a tourist not LPR judging by your previous comments) and have filed taxes more recently, does not “prove” that you are still a legal LPR. Your efforts over the past 5 years are possibly attempting to preserve a status that had already been lost. If I were in your shoes, I’d contact uscis to find out what your actual status is in the US before applying for naturalization.

One more thing: if you’re male and were 18-25 at any time since becoming an LPR, did you register for selective service?

Of course, you could take the chance and hope they do only focus on the past 5 years and ignore what happened before. Personally I think that’s a big risk; ymmv.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your detailed response.

I am a Canadian, so yes, i don't require a visa.

I've read some conflicting information about if entering as a tourist while having a green card means you weren't admitted with permanent legal residence.
From what I understand, once you have been lawfully granted permanent residence, then as long as you're in the US you are considered a permanent resident as long as you did not enter illegally, i.e without going through a POE. I might be wrong though.

I did not file tax in those years because I did not have enough income. I did not file them in Canada either during those years or if I did it was with an income of 0 dollars. I was living with my wife, who was the main bread winner. Also, I believe if your income was less than a certain amount ($4000?) then you don't have to file your taxes, even if you are a LPR.

Also, as far as I understand or have read, you do not lose your LPR status until and unless you give it up yourself by signing a certain form, which is normally what CBP officers make you sign at POE or if an immigration judge orders it to be taken away. Otherwise, you have not lost your LPR status.

Along those lines, one of the first things I did when I was back in the States was that I booked an InfoPass appointment and went to a USCIS office and talked to an agent in person.
He was able to bring up my file and was astonished why I hadn't applied for citizenship as yet.
I asked him if there were any issues with my status and his reply was that no, I was a legal permanent resident. He also stated I am fully eligible for all LPR benefits.

After this, I applied for my SSN and initially at the SSA office, the agent who was helping me said he could not find me in the system. He asked that I bring my birth certificate and then after that he was able to find my information and I received my SSN two weeks later without any issues.

I had no issues with my driving license or any USCIS background checks for my employment, even though I've switched jobs a number of times.

I did not sign up for SS because I was totally unaware that I had to but I am more than 31 so I understand that it doesn't matter at this point.

Once again, thanks for your response.
 
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fruityloops said:
Thank you for your detailed response.

I did not file tax in those years because I did not have enough income. I did not file them in Canada either during those years or if I did it was with an income of 0 dollars. I was living with my wife, who was the main earner. Also, I believe if your income was less than a certain amount ($4000?) then you don't have to file your taxes, even if you are a LPR.

Also, as far as I understand or have read, you do not lose your LPR status until and unless you give it up yourself by signing a certain form, which is normally what CBP officers make you sign at POE or if an immigration judge orders it to be taken away. Otherwise, you have not lost your LPR status.

Along those lines, one of the first things I did when I was back in the States was that I booked an InfoPass appointment and went to a USCIS office and talked to an agent in person.
He was able to bring up my file and was astonished why I hadn't applied for citizenship as yet.
I asked him if there were any issues with my status and his reply was that no, I was a legal permanent resident. He also stated I am fully eligible for all LPR benefits.

After this, I applied for my SSN and initially at the SSA office, the agent who was helping me said he could not find me in the system. He asked that I bring my birth certificate and then after that he was able to find my information and I received my SSN two weeks later without any issues.

I had no issues with my driving license or any USCIS background checks for my employment, even though I've switched jobs a number of times.

I did not sign up for SS because I was totally unaware that I had to but I am more than 31 so I understand that it doesn't matter at this point.

Once again, thanks for your response.
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Well, if you already went to an infopass and the guy told you that you’re ok, I’m confused as to why you are posting here. Just wasted a bunch of time trying to help someone who already has an official answer on the question.
 
SusieQQQ said:
Well, if you already went to an infopass and the guy told you that you’re ok, I’m confused as to why you are posting here. Just wasted a bunch of time trying to help someone who already has an official answer on the question.
Click to expand...

You absolutely did not waste your time as your answer was very helpful to me and will be helpful to other people as well for times to come.

I'm not concerned about my legal status in the US, maybe my question was not clear enough but I'm more worried about what will happen once I apply for citizenship and if my extensive stays outside will be considered even though I've been physically present in the US for the last 6 years.

Thanks again!
 
fruityloops said:
You absolutely did not waste your time as your answer was very helpful to me and will be helpful to other people as well for times to come.

I'm not concerned about my legal status in the US, maybe my question was not clear enough but I'm more worried about what will happen once I apply for citizenship and if my extensive stays outside will be considered even though I've been physically present in the US for the last 6 years.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Your extensive stays outside would only be a problem insofar as they had jeopardized your status. According to you, you were told after your last entry that you’d managed to keep your status, so it’s only the last 5 years that matters now.

Personally I’m amazed that someone who, to be honest, has pretty much ignored most of the key responsibilities (tax, SS) and residence requirements of being an LPR still has a green card and is eligible to naturalize. Makes one wonder why the rest of us try so hard to play by the rules.
 
SusieQQQ said:
Your extensive stays outside would only be a problem insofar as they had jeopardized your status. According to you, you were told after your last entry that you’d managed to keep your status, so it’s only the last 5 years that matters now.

Personally I’m amazed that someone who, to be honest, has pretty much ignored most of the key responsibilities (tax, SS) and residence requirements of being an LPR still has a green card and is eligible to naturalize. Makes one wonder why the rest of us try so hard to play by the rules.
Click to expand...

I never did any of this intentionally. I got my green card when I was a small kid and only found out that I had a greencard less than 20 years ago,after that I've tried to do everything by the book.
I've been extremely lucky, no doubt but please don't think any of this was intentional.
I could happily live my life as a permanent resident, but the only reason I want to even apply is because I would like to get all of this over with, regardless of the outcome.
If USCIS deems that I am not legible then I'll still be okay because I don't want something that USCIS thinks I don't deserve but if they're okay with then why not.
 
fruityloops said:
I never did any of this intentionally. I got my green card when I was a small kid and only found out that I had a greencard less than 20 years ago,after that I've tried to do everything by the book.
.
Click to expand...

Hm, not from what you said before., it’s been only 6 years of doing it by the book (residence and tax). And no selective service. Takes 2 seconds to google “responsibilities of green card holder”. Anyway, you seem to have got lucky and managed to ride it all out. Would be very interested in a report back on your N400 interview once done.
 
SusieQQQ said:
Hm, not from what you said before., it’s been only 6 years of doing it by the book (residence and tax). And no selective service. Takes 2 seconds to google “responsibilities of green card holder”. Anyway, you seem to have got lucky and managed to ride it all out. Would be very interested in a report back on your N400 interview once done.
Click to expand...

Sorry that was a typo.
I only found out in 2010 or so.
I head meant to type less than 10 years ago.
 
fruityloops said:
I did not.
The officer didn't ask me for it and I was too taken aback at his abrupt command to go on to do anything else.

This was in 2013.
Click to expand...

The IO is not supposed to ask for your GC. It is YOUR responsibility to present it with your passport. I’m guessing you purposely didn’t present the GC because you had the plan of entering as a tourist all along since you had a Canadian passport that did not require a US visa. And now you’re claiming you unsure what you were let in as. Sorry, not buying that excuse.
 
fruityloops said:
Thank you for your detailed response.

I am a Canadian, so yes, i don't require a visa.

I've read some conflicting information about if entering as a tourist while having a green card means you weren't admitted with permanent legal residence.
From what I understand, once you have been lawfully granted permanent residence, then as long as you're in the US you are considered a permanent resident as long as you did not enter illegally, i.e without going through a POE. I might be wrong though.
Click to expand...

Wrong. You’re considered to have lied and misrepresented your purpose of entering. It is frowned upon.

fruityloops said:
Also, as far as I understand or have read, you do not lose your LPR status until and unless you give it up yourself by signing a certain form, which is normally what CBP officers make you sign at POE or if an immigration judge orders it to be taken away. Otherwise, you have not lost your LPR status.
Click to expand...

Then why didn’t you present your GC at the POE instead of coming in as a Canadian tourist?

fruityloops said:
Along those lines, one of the first things I did when I was back in the States was that I booked an InfoPass appointment and went to a USCIS office and talked to an agent in person.
He was able to bring up my file and was astonished why I hadn't applied for citizenship as yet.
I asked him if there were any issues with my status and his reply was that no, I was a legal permanent resident. He also stated I am fully eligible for all LPR benefits.
Click to expand...

Did you fully explain the pattern of your in and out trips to the IO you met? Did you tell them your trip sometimes last up to 5 years and that for your last entry, you pretended to be a Canadian tourist since you didn’t use your GC? I doubt he would have been talking about your citizenship eligibility since you clearly do not meet the requirements for that.
 
And I will be interested in knowing how you plan on answering these two questions on the N400 form:

Have you EVER given any U.S. government official any information or documentation that was false, fraudulent, or misleading?

Have you EVER lied to any U.S. government officials to gain entry or admission into the United States or to gain immigration benefits while in the United States?

Answering “NO” to either of these questions would be an obvious lie IMO considering the fact that you mislead the IO that admitted you by only presenting your Canadian passport which required no visa as if you were a tourist visiting the US.

It is also considered lying to gain entry or admission into the US. You lied to gain entry as a tourist and then picked up your life as a LPR, that is lying to gain immigration benefits.
 
fruityloops said:
.

I've read some conflicting information about if entering as a tourist while having a green card means you weren't admitted with permanent legal residence.
From what I understand, once you have been lawfully granted permanent residence, then as long as you're in the US you are considered a permanent resident as long as you did not enter illegally, i.e without going through a POE. I might be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Oh, I’d missed this bit. I’d be interested to a link to a legal opinion that says this is ok. Every official statement you find says you are to present your valid, unexpired green card or other proof of residence on entry as a LPR. Presenting yourself as a tourist is presenting yourself as a non-resident.

Again, I’d be very interested in the outcome of the interview. Wouldn’t be the first time someone has gone in expecting to naturalize and come out with orders to appear before an immigration judge.
 
This is OP’s other thread. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/658118-n400-question-with-extensive-stay-outside-us/
Seems a lawyer has already told him he would be found to have abandoned residence due to past travels and is currently in US illegally but he chooses to believe the lawyer is wrong.

This document from an immigrant legal resource center indicates that this lawyer was in fact correct as they will look at entire history of travel as well. https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/nats_step-by-step_final._october_2014.pdf Bottom of p8/top of p9 talks about possibility of having abandoned residence over 5 years ago ie before time frame in which details are asked for in the form.

It certainly seems OP is filtering out what he wants to hear, perhaps without understanding that “I didn’t know” isn’t a defense, even if it’s true.
 
Sm1smom said:
Wrong. You’re considered to have lied and misrepresented your purpose of entering. It is frowned upon.



Then why didn’t you present your GC at the POE instead of coming in as a Canadian tourist?



Did you fully explain the pattern of your in and out trips to the IO you met? Did you tell them your trip sometimes last up to 5 years and that for your last entry, you pretended to be a Canadian tourist since you didn’t use your GC? I doubt he would have been talking about your citizenship eligibility since you clearly do not meet the requirements for that.
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact I had, his reply was it doesn't matter because you're in the country now.

My personal opinion was that this agent was not very well informed.
 
Sm1smom said:
And I will be interested in knowing how you plan on answering these two questions on the N400 form:

Have you EVER given any U.S. government official any information or documentation that was false, fraudulent, or misleading?

Have you EVER lied to any U.S. government officials to gain entry or admission into the United States or to gain immigration benefits while in the United States?

Answering “NO” to either of these questions would be an obvious lie IMO considering the fact that you mislead the IO that admitted you by only presenting your Canadian passport which required no visa as if you were a tourist visiting the US.

It is also considered lying to gain entry or admission into the US. You lied to gain entry as a tourist and then picked up your life as a LPR, that is lying to gain immigration benefits.
Click to expand...

I think this makes more sense.
Perhaps I should exit the country and then retry entering it again but this time make sure the IO sees my GC

As I've said before when crossing the border with Canada, it's normally very common for agents to just let you through without asking more than 2 or 3 questions.
 
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