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N-400 denied yesterday, March 22, 2013 - advice please!

Discussion in 'US Citizenship' started by helpmefightback, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    Hello everyone,
    I found the information here to be very helpful, over the past few months, and so I just joined this forum, as my N-400 application was denied yesterday. Here's my story:

    My issues with USCIS:
    -Is it law that a husband and wife have a joint bank account, credit cards and pay utility bills, etc.?
    -Is it law that our children have to be born after I became a US permanent resident to be granted citizenship?
    -After a lot of searching on the internet it seems as though they have denied my application because I did not prove my bona fide marriage with documents (that we simply do not have). What else can we show them to prove that we have a bona fide marriage?

    My first inclination is to file an N-336 Request for hearing, once I receive the denial letter. Other option, just file N-400 5 year application. Any advice would be appreciated.

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2013
  2. Jackolantern

    Jackolantern Registered Users (C)

    It is the law that you're supposed to provide evidence of living together as a married couple for the past 3 years if you're going to naturalize based on 3 years of marriage to a US citizen. When applying for citizenship, the burden of proof is on the applicant. If you live your life in such a way that doesn't generate adequate documentation of your married life, you're probably not going to be approved.

    No. But if you're going to list your children as evidence of being in marital union for the past 3 years, either they should have been born in the past 3 years, or you have to show that you've been raising them together in the same household. A common way of showing the latter is school records, provided that the school records show an address which matches your other documents. It's not clear if your children are living with you, or if they're still in Canada.

    Things will be much easier if you apply with the 5 year rule, and you're eligible to apply with it right now. You became eligible to apply with the 5-year rule in December; I'm surprised you simply didn't wait the extra 6 months after June 2012. Make sure you at least have a state ID or driver's license that reflects your current address.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2013
  3. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    N-400 denied yesterday

    Thanks for the reply and advice, Jackolantern.

    I see your point re: evidence of living together and children info (kids do live with us).

    We applied using the 3 year rule (June 2012) thinking the whole process would be over by December 2012; boy were we wrong....hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

    I will be applying again under the 5 year rule, and avoid the hassle of N-336. I do have a state ID which reflects our current address.

    Thanks for your time.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2013
  4. New400

    New400 Registered Users (C)

    When one gets denied in N-400, is the 10 yr GC still valid to be able to refile like in your case file on the 5yr rule. ?
  5. Jackolantern

    Jackolantern Registered Users (C)

    Denial of N-400 usually does not affect the GC, and most people who get denied still keep their green cards and are eligible to reapply after waiting for the appropriate amount of time (which could be anywhere from right away to 5 years, possibly longer if given an extended probation for a crime).

    Loss of the green card after N-400 denial would only happen if there was something serious like committing a deportable crime, or a review of the facts found that the individual was not eligible for the green card in the specified category at the time it was granted (for example, immigrating as an unmarried child of a US citizen when actually being married).
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2013
  6. Jackolantern

    Jackolantern Registered Users (C)

    Normally you shouldn't face any problems about your marriage when you apply with the 5 year rule, but there have been reports of interviewers giving a few 5-year applicants problems with it if their green cards were obtained through marriage. With your situation you could get an interviewer who thinks your marriage was already falling apart when you got your green card and your wife has been living separately from you ever since you moved back to the US. They might even suspect your wife is still living in Canada or that you've gotten divorced without telling them.

    So in case that happens, bring your wife with you (with her ID, preferably one with an address -- the same address as yours) to the next interview, and have her sit outside the interview room. If the interviewer goes down a hostile line questioning about your marriage, say that your wife is sitting outside in the lobby and ask the interviewer if he/she wants to see her. The interviewer will probably let her enter the room for a minute, ask her one or two questions, and that should put an end to their suspicions.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2013
  7. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    N-400 denied yesterday

    Thanks for the great advice, once again, Jackolantern.
  8. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2013
  9. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    Marital union: any input would be appreciated....thanks

    re: Marital union: any input would be appreciated....thanks


    First off, I would like to thank all for their help during my journey so far.

    As mentioned in my previous posts, I supplied info on March 22, 2013 re: N-14.

    So far, I supplied:

    (1) Wife's birth certificate, passport, (she is a U.S. citizen)
    (2) Children's birth certificates (U.S. and Canadian)
    (3) My IRS transcripts for past 5 years (filing status: married filing separately)
    (4) My bank statements for past 3 years
    (5) Written affidavit of support from cousin that we reside with him and his family, for the past 3 years, along with deed for their home and 3 years utility bills, as requested by IO on January 14, 2013
    (6) Written affidavit from me stating that (a) wife and I for past five years do not have any: assets or income, joint bank account, credit cards, insurance, utilities bills and (b) wife did not file tax returns as she was not required to (no income or assets to report).
    (7) Showed IO pictures, from last summer, of family and I. She asked if she can attach one in my file and I agreed

    Do you think I have supplied enough info to prove marital union?

    Your opinions please.....just trying to get others' point of view.

    I'm not sure where this is going, but have not received formal decision in writing. Based on readings here, it appears that decisions of IO and supervisors can change even if verbal decision was given.

    Thanks for your time.


    Keeping hope alive...no formal decision received as yet.....hoping for that Oath letter!

    Here is my journey thus far:

    GC holder since March 21, 2008 (married to U.S. citizen since 1997)

    6/11/12: N-400 sent via UPS to Lewisville, TX
    6/12/12: N-400 delivered
    6/13/12: NOA received (Priority Date: 06/12/12)
    7/18/12: FP notice recd
    8/09/12: FP scheduled - Done
    9/04/12: In line for Interview scheduling
    10/12/12: NOA received, Interview scheduled
    14/01/13: Interview Done, N-14 "Request for evidence" given to me
    22/03/13: Second interview. Info submitted. Was told file approved by IO, then was told by IO not approved by Supervisor
    X/XX/13: Oath scheduling que
    X/XX/13: Oath Letter received
    X/XX/13: Oath Ceremony
    X/XX/13: Applied for Passport
    X/XX/13: Received Passport
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2013
  10. hazelickes

    hazelickes Registered Users (C)

    N400 Denied.


    Don't worry about your denial of your N400 application. If you have found reason for your denial, GREAT!!!

    You can find some useful information about N400 application, 1-800-375-5283 in this number.

  11. Jackolantern

    Jackolantern Registered Users (C)

    In my opinion, no.

    But it's their opinion that counts, not mine.

    If you have no assets or income, why did you bother to file tax returns, and why file separately? Your case looks really strange.
  12. kool_maverik

    kool_maverik Registered Users (C)

    In my opinion, there's nothing in the list of docs mentioned above which substantiates marital union. As Jack mentioned, the filing separately is definitely a red flag.
  13. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    Thanks for the responses.

    Hindsight is 20/20 as they say......we would have better prepared ourselves (i.e. filing taxes jointly instead of taking amateur advice, opened joint bank accounts, etc. etc.) had we known that the burden of proof would be on us to produce pieces of paper, that simply show both of our names on it.
  14. schynam

    schynam Registered Users (C)

    I wish you luck with this case. But you are married to someone and you have kids together and you could not file joint tax returns? No utility bills?

    What about phone bills? And apart from making babies with her, there is no other evidence that you two had anything in common (minus the pictures)?

    Come on men!!
  15. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    Refer to post #13 above
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2013
  16. schynam

    schynam Registered Users (C)

    I feel your situation. I hope you are able to get through it successfully. Best of luck!!
  17. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    Thank you for the warm wishes :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2013
  18. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    So, I called USCIS today and spoke with a "second level" Officer (after 30 minute wait) re: file status.

    He said that my case was updated on March 25, 2013 and says that I passed civics/English testing on Jan 14, 2013 and file status says currently "under review"; he said that was all he was able to see and that the IO will send decision letter in due course.

    I feel somewhat better - "under review" is better than flat out being "denied" :)
  19. helpmefightback

    helpmefightback Registered Users (C)

    After reading about "service inquiry requests" on this forum, I thought I'd give it a shot.

    Just called USCIS Customer Service; after some discussion (re: longer than 7.2 months average N-400 processing time for NYC field office and 90 days elapsing since initial interview) the rep agreed with me; she issued a service inquiry request directly to the New York field office. She further indicated that I will hear directly from the field office within 15 days, most likely via email.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2013
  20. Maxie1

    Maxie1 Registered Users (C)

    Hi There,
    First I wish you best of luck with whatever you decide to do now. Did you consult an attorney regarding the better way to go about it? Is it possible to simply re apply under the 5 year rule if you are denied?

    I am in a similar situation. I did not receive any kind of decision yet, and had my second interview about a week ago. I was wondering if you could tell me a little about your second interview, and what happened next?


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