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Level of education

P

pawn54

New Member
Hello there.

I'm from Russia. I applied for the lottery. I have a question about the level of education. In Russia I can get 2 diplomas in school, the first diploma in grade 9, the second diploma in grade 11 (a total of 11 grades). I got my first diploma, but didn't get my second because I just got tired of that ******* school (I had 1 month of study left) (for those who are wondering how this works in Russia, I'll tell you below).

And so, the questions.

1. Can a 9th grade diploma be considered a "high school diploma"? Is it left to the opinion of the immigration officer during the interview?
2. If the answer to the first point is "no," then there is another question. I would love to finish 11th grade to get a "second diploma," but there's a problem. At the moment schools in Russia have turned into institutions where you have to kiss a portrait of putin, go to classes where they tell you that America is a fascist state, which we need to destroy, etc (this is not a joke, you can look it up on YT). I have never supported this, and in fact this is one of the reasons why I want to leave Russia. So I do not want to go to school to get this "paper". If, in "theory," I tell this in an interview as a reason for not having a "high school diploma," can I be approved? Because it's very weird that the U.S. requires me to get a diploma from an institution that teaches me that we have to destroy the U.S.

Off-top.

In Russia, there are about 25-30 subjects in the 11th grade (of which only 3-5 are really needed). The school also works on Saturdays. Also, no one has renovated the schools since Soviet times and they look like a cow shed. It is very difficult both mentally and physically to endure this abuse. And now, putin has introduced new laws that require me to be taught "political competence". What they tell me, I think you understand.

That is why I think it is very weird to require a "high school diploma" (at least for Russia). I think the U.S. should make an exception.
 
The high school diploma has to be equivalent to a 12-year course of schooling in the US. The test for this is whether your high school qualification, by itself, is enough for you gain entrance to a university.
 
SusieQQQ said:
The high school diploma has to be equivalent to a 12-year course of schooling in the US. The test for this is whether your high school qualification, by itself, is enough for you gain entrance to a university.
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How can I determine this equivalence? Does the U.S. have any laws (or ratio tables) that relate which document from another country is equivalent to theirs?
 
As I said, the test is whether it is sufficient for university entrance. See below(note in the US “college” is the term for undergraduate university, this sometimes confuses people). One way to check is to see what a US university would require from Russians to enter. In most cases this would be similar to what you’d need to attend university in your own country, which would usually be an easier way of figuring it out.


From the official manual :


Formal course of elementary and secondary education in another country that is comparable to completion of 12 years of elementary and secondary education in the United States. A United States high school education is sufficient to qualify a student to apply for college admission so a foreign education should also be sufficient to allow a student to apply for college admission without further education to be equivalent to a United States education. Vocational degrees that are not a basis for further academic study are not equivalent to United States high school education.
 
SusieQQQ said:
Formal course of elementary and secondary education in another country that is comparable to completion of 12 years of elementary and secondary education in the United States. A United States high school education is sufficient to qualify a student to apply for college admission so a foreign education should also be sufficient to allow a student to apply for college admission without further education to be equivalent to a United States education. Vocational degrees that are not a basis for further academic study are not equivalent to United States high school education.
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As far as I read, to get into college in the U.S. I only need to pass the SAT and just a letter (!) from the school that I actually studied there. As far as I understand, the main thing is to pay for a year of study. So it's still a difficult question for me. Well even if we assume that a diploma for 9 grades in Russia will not be enough, "theoretically" if I tell the interviewer what is going on in Russian schools now and why it is impossible to study there, can he approve the issuance of a visa? As I said above, it's very weird to demand a high school diploma from a country that talks in school about why the U.S. "should be destroyed".
 
pawn54 said:
As far as I read, to get into college in the U.S. I only need to pass the SAT and just a letter (!) from the school that I actually studied there. As far as I understand, the main thing is to pay for a year of study. So it's still a difficult question for me. Well even if we assume that a diploma for 9 grades in Russia will not be enough, "theoretically" if I tell the interviewer what is going on in Russian schools now and why it is impossible to study there, can he approve the issuance of a visa? As I said above, it's very weird to demand a high school diploma from a country that talks in school about why the U.S. "should be destroyed".
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I have no idea what you looked at but honestly there’s no benefit to me engaging in a hypothetical discussion that’s not going to get you a visa. You clearly don’t have the high school qualification that is required by law. Unless you have the requisite work experience, you don’t qualify.
 
SusieQQQ said:
I have no idea what you looked at but honestly there’s no benefit to me engaging in a hypothetical discussion that’s not going to get you a visa. You clearly don’t have the high school qualification that is required by law. Unless you have the requisite work experience, you don’t qualify.
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If you have some resource that spells out the mandatory college admission requirements, why don't you link to it? There is still an enormous amount of time before the visa draw. For me, getting this education is a matter of months. But I want to understand if I need to suffer these few months, or what I have now will do. Also, there is a note on the DV program website that the final decision on approval is still made by an immigration officer. That's why I'm wondering if there were cases where the high school diploma requirement was dropped.
 
pawn54 said:
As far as I read, to get into college in the U.S. I only need to pass the SAT and just a letter (!) from the school that I actually studied there. As far as I understand, the main thing is to pay for a year of study.
Click to expand...
Hmmn, no. The admission process is not quite as simple as you're trying to make it sound like. I believe most reputable US colleges require applicants with Russian HS education to present the "Certificate of (complete) General Secondary Education - (Аттестат о среднем (полном) общем образовании)" - equivalent US HS Diploma in order to be considered for admission. They do not go by "just a letter (!) from the school that (the applicant) actually studied there".

Sample college requirements (based on Google search):
UC San Diego, Mesa Community College, University of Michigan - Dearborn, Hillsborough Community College, University of Minnesota Twin Cities

pawn54 said:
Well even if we assume that a diploma for 9 grades in Russia will not be enough,
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A 9th grade Diploma on it's own is most certainly not enough to meet the DV educational requirements.

pawn54 said:
"theoretically" if I tell the interviewer what is going on in Russian schools now and why it is impossible to study there, can he approve the issuance of a visa? As I said above, it's very weird to demand a high school diploma from a country that talks in school about why the U.S. "should be destroyed".
Click to expand...
While I admit I am not from Russia and I have no insight into what the educational system may be like, it is certainly not weird for the US to demand a HS diploma from "a country that talks in school about why the U.S. "should be destroyed" because:
1. Russia is certainly not the only country that advocates such,
2. Hundreds of past Russian selectees have been able to present HS Diploma and subsequently successfully processed their DV selection,
3. The decision to not complete your HS educational was a personal one, according to you, you "didn't get my second because I just got tired of that ******* school" - there is absolutely no reason as to why an exception could or should be made in the event you get selected.

So basically, you either meet the requirements or you don't, and based on what you've written above, you do not meet the requirements. Whether you agree or not, or regardless of if you think the need to demonstrate that is weird (in your opinion) or not.
 
pawn54 said:
If you have some resource that spells out the mandatory college admission requirements, why don't you link to it? There is still an enormous amount of time before the visa draw. For me, getting this education is a matter of months. But I want to understand if I need to suffer these few months, or what I have now will do. Also, there is a note on the DV program website that the final decision on approval is still made by an immigration officer. That's why I'm wondering if there were cases where the high school diploma requirement was dropped.
Click to expand...
You do realize a simple Google search would have provided you with this information? Anyway, I saved you the effort of doing so, have a look at my previous post (above) for links to a couple of US colleges and the applicable requirements for Russian applicants.
 
Sm1smom said:
While I admit I am not from Russia and I have no insight into what the educational system may be like, it is certainly not weird for the US to demand a HS diploma from "a country that talks in school about why the U.S. "should be destroyed" because:
1. Russia is certainly not the only country that advocates such,
2. Hundreds of past Russian selectees have been able to present HS Diploma and subsequently successfully processed their DV selection,
3. The decision to not complete your HS educational was a personal one, according to you, you "didn't get my second because I just got tired of that ******* school" - there is absolutely no reason as to why an exception could or should be made in the event you get selected.

So basically, you either meet the requirements or you don't, and based on what you've written above, you do not meet the requirements. Whether you agree or not, or regardless of if you think the need to demonstrate that is weird (in your opinion) or not.
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1. No. That's weird to demand from countries with a low level of education, a diploma of completion of that education. As much as I like the U.S., their migration policy is very weird and unfair.
2. For the current generation, everything has become much tougher. It was a MUCH easier to get HS 10 years ago.
3. Tired of enduring humiliation at school, from teachers who have a salary of $300 (this is not a joke, you can find a simple Google search), quit school, minding my own business and I can not qualify for a green card? Do you realize this is very stupid?

A large number of migrants who came to Europe and the U.S. do not know how to eat with a fork and a spoon, but to get to the U.S. from post-Soviet countries intelligent and educated people must pass some hardcore selection and have a huge amount of money. A very good migration policy.

Sm1smom said:
You do realize a simple Google search would have provided you with this information? Anyway, I saved you the effort of doing so, have a look at my previous post (above) for links to a couple of US colleges and the applicable requirements for Russian applicants.
Click to expand...
This search is simple for you. It makes sense that I haven't lived in the U.S. and don't know the local rules and which sites I can find the information I need. The information I could find was on Russian sites and I wrote it above. And in any case it is very weird to show the diploma, because in Russia, as far as I know, there is no common database with all the diplomas, so it can be made on any printer. Passing the knowledge test makes much more sense.
 
Your personal thoughts or feelings about the US immigration or US college admission policies being stupid, weird, or unfair are irrelevant.

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No, I am not aware of any case with an exception for not meeting either the educational, or work requirement.
 
pawn54 said:
Yes, that's sad.

And yet, do you know of any cases where an exception was made for someone (I mean the DV requirements)?
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The DV requirements are set in law*, a CO does not have discretion to ignore those. Where they talk about the CO having the final decision on approval, well, that’s the case for any immigrant visa. If it is to judge whether or not your qualifications meet the standard, bear in mind (if you read the link I posted above) it doesn’t mean they can be “nice“ and decide to ignore it, it means they need to be sure it meets the requirements:

The burden of proving that an applicant's education is equivalent to a high school degree is entirely on the applicant. If the applicant does not satisfy you that the applicant's education is equivalent to a high school degree, but you believe additional evidence could meet the applicant's burden, the appropriate basis for refusal is INA 221(g). You may request the applicant to provide additional information. If the applicant is unable to credibly prove the education equivalency requirement to your satisfaction, the appropriate basis for refusal is INA 203(c).*

*The INA section on diversity visas says :

Requirement of education or work experience​

An alien is not eligible for a visa under this subsection unless the alien-

(A) has at least a high school education or its equivalent, or

(B) has, within 5 years of the date of application for a visa under this subsection, at least 2 years of work experience in an occupation which requires at least 2 years of training or experience.

 
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pawn54 said:
Hello there.

I'm from Russia. I applied for the lottery. I have a question about the level of education. In Russia I can get 2 diplomas in school, the first diploma in grade 9, the second diploma in grade 11 (a total of 11 grades). I got my first diploma, but didn't get my second because I just got tired of that ******* school (I had 1 month of study left) (for those who are wondering how this works in Russia, I'll tell you below).

And so, the questions.

1. Can a 9th grade diploma be considered a "high school diploma"? Is it left to the opinion of the immigration officer during the interview?
2. If the answer to the first point is "no," then there is another question. I would love to finish 11th grade to get a "second diploma," but there's a problem. At the moment schools in Russia have turned into institutions where you have to kiss a portrait of putin, go to classes where they tell you that America is a fascist state, which we need to destroy, etc (this is not a joke, you can look it up on YT). I have never supported this, and in fact this is one of the reasons why I want to leave Russia. So I do not want to go to school to get this "paper". If, in "theory," I tell this in an interview as a reason for not having a "high school diploma," can I be approved? Because it's very weird that the U.S. requires me to get a diploma from an institution that teaches me that we have to destroy the U.S.

Off-top.

In Russia, there are about 25-30 subjects in the 11th grade (of which only 3-5 are really needed). The school also works on Saturdays. Also, no one has renovated the schools since Soviet times and they look like a cow shed. It is very difficult both mentally and physically to endure this abuse. And now, putin has introduced new laws that require me to be taught "political competence". What they tell me, I think you understand.

That is why I think it is very weird to require a "high school diploma" (at least for Russia). I think the U.S. should make an exception.
Click to expand...
Have you won? If you just entered, why don’t you finish your studies anyway? It’s only a month you said.
 
clefs_games_0f said:
Have you won? If you just entered, why don’t you finish your studies anyway? It’s only a month you said.
Click to expand...
I didn't win, I just applied so far and I was interested in this moment. I wanted to know if education is really that important for this. Now, of course, I will have to study for 1 month.
 
pawn54 said:
I didn't win, I just applied so far and I was interested in this moment. I wanted to know if education is really that important for this. Now, of course, I will have to study for 1 month.
Click to expand...
It’s definitely important and not having the requested education can disqualify you. It’s also a good investment in that if you win, and you’re successful, you’ll likely benefit once starting your life in the US - employment opportunities can be directly tied to your level of education in the American work force, and not completing high school is definitely something that happens, but isn’t a good thing culturally.
 
pawn54 said:
Hello there.

I'm from Russia. I applied for the lottery. I have a question about the level of education. In Russia I can get 2 diplomas in school, the first diploma in grade 9, the second diploma in grade 11 (a total of 11 grades). I got my first diploma, but didn't get my second because I just got tired of that ******* school (I had 1 month of study left) (for those who are wondering how this works in Russia, I'll tell you below).

And so, the questions.

1. Can a 9th grade diploma be considered a "high school diploma"? Is it left to the opinion of the immigration officer during the interview?
2. If the answer to the first point is "no," then there is another question. I would love to finish 11th grade to get a "second diploma," but there's a problem. At the moment schools in Russia have turned into institutions where you have to kiss a portrait of putin, go to classes where they tell you that America is a fascist state, which we need to destroy, etc (this is not a joke, you can look it up on YT). I have never supported this, and in fact this is one of the reasons why I want to leave Russia. So I do not want to go to school to get this "paper". If, in "theory," I tell this in an interview as a reason for not having a "high school diploma," can I be approved? Because it's very weird that the U.S. requires me to get a diploma from an institution that teaches me that we have to destroy the U.S.

Off-top.

In Russia, there are about 25-30 subjects in the 11th grade (of which only 3-5 are really needed) Get a copy of a high school diploma. The school also works on Saturdays. Also, no one has renovated the schools since Soviet times and they look like a cow shed. It is very difficult both mentally and physically to endure this abuse. And now, putin has introduced new laws that require me to be taught "political competence". What they tell me, I think you understand.

That is why I think it is very weird to require a "high school diploma" (at least for Russia). I think the U.S. should make an exception.
Click to expand...
  1. While educational requirements for the Diversity Visa Lottery can be stringent, the U.S. immigration system usually recognizes equivalencies. A 9th-grade diploma might not be universally accepted as a "high school diploma," but it's crucial to check with the U.S. embassy or consulate in Russia. They can provide specific guidance on whether your educational background meets the criteria.
  2. Explaining your situation during the interview is essential. If you articulate your reasons for not completing the 11th grade due to ideological conflicts and provide context for your decision, the immigration officer may consider this. Be honest and clear about your circumstances.
It's important to note that U.S. immigration policies can be complex, and exceptions are sometimes made on a case-by-case basis. Your best course of action is to communicate openly during the interview and seek guidance from the relevant authorities. If possible, consult with an immigration attorney for personalized advice tailored to your situation.
 
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