marion_etka said:Suzzy,
Being that GW has never vetoed a bill, and is politically at odds with those who oppose this legislation, it is highly doubtful that he would veto this bill if it were sent to him.
Remains to be seen
"...[AS] LEGAL RESIDENTS AND AMERICAN CITIZEN we have the duty to fight against ILLEGALS and illegal immigration"
Where did you read about this duty?
Is my opinion, I believe in it and I say it out loud. If you don't share it, is your right and your problem.
There are plenty of Americans who believe that NO NATURALIZATION SHOULD EXIST. What do you say to them?
It's a free country, they are free to believe whatever they want.
"None of us , brook the window in the night to take the car, because obviously we didn't have the proper "visa"($$$) to access that "world", and most of us, probably, never will.
Not getting/having what you want, doesn't give you a license to break the law "
Once again your argument relies on oversimplification. The fact is that there is a big difference between staying here illegally and stealing a car, just like there is a big difference between getting a speeding ticket and stealing a car. Speeding is breaking the law, I shouldn't do it, but just because I make the mistake, it doesn't mean that I should have my license taken away.
Here your comparison doesn't hold water.
1. Speeding ticket is a crime, but you don't speed 24/7/365 for years and years continuously...speeding it's one time "little crime"...being ILLEGAL is an ongoing lawbreaking situation.
2. And don't try to sugarcoat this lawbreaking, there are smaller crimes than bigger crimes, BUT AT THE END ALL ARE CRIMES.
3. You get in traffic, you speed like everybody else and the cop gets you. A mistake, happens. But when you jump over the border in the middle of the night, DON'T TELL ME THAT YOU WERE ACCIDENTALLY IN TRAFFIC
MOREOVER, just so it is clear, many "illegals" don't come to this country looking for Rolls Royces, they come because they want better for their families than they were given.
You took my example literally, I don't mean to insult you, but PLEASE don't play stupid here.
The fact is that the immigration system in this country is flawed and that many people who are in desperate situations are given the choice between famine and disease, or crossing an imaginary line to at least be given a chance at a better life (even though that chance is some of the hardest work imaginable). If in your mind that is a crime, then I feel sorry for you.
Not obeying the laws is a crime, PERIOD. If I'm wrong and you're right, let's abolish the laws then, since are useless why should we keep them anymore
Illegal immigrants are the one's who do the dirty and often dangerous jobs that keep the American society moving as we know it.
If you believe that after they become legal they will keep doing the same jobs, you're a naive. I'm telling you, as soon they get their papers, they will sneak over the borders their friends, relatives, neighbors, etc. and pass them those jobs, and we will face another wave of fresh "poor" ILLEGALS.
Clearly the American public is divided about this issue. These people have been CITIZENS a lot longer than you and have opinions far different from yours. So I would be careful about using words like "duty" and speaking so forcefully when representing the CITIZENS of this country.
I'm not representing the citizens of this country, but exercizing my free speech right I say that, I believe in it and I'll do everything I can to fight for my opinion.
What makes your argument weak is that you speak down to people, and hide behind your own legal status. Maybe what you should do is treat everyone here as your equal, regardless of their background, instead of acting as if citizenship gives you some authority that the rest of us do not share.
You're wrong again, I don't speak down to anybody, I don't think I'm above anybody (except for the LAWBRAKERS, THE ILLEGALLS ) but when someone speaks down to us saying with superiority:
Mona25 said:
Then it's a different story
I'm not a racist, I believe all people should be equal, but in any civilized society LAWBREAKERS BELONG BEHIND THE BARS AND LAW OBEYING CITIZENS BELONG OUTSIDE OF THE BARS.
Is Amnesty being declared??? Plz Help
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GreenCardVirus
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marion_etka said:
I could not have said it better. Since the dawn of human life, people have always moved to better and prosperous areas. Asking people not to do so defies human nature.
Did you know even a country like India with all its population and poverty has an illegal immigration problem? That is because in the neighbouring Pakistan and Bangladesh, conditions are even worse.
People crossing borders might be aware of the illegality of it but I doubt if they see any immorality in it.
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GreenCardVirus said:I could not have said it better. Since the dawn of human life, people have always moved to better and prosperous areas. Asking people not to do so defies human nature.
I'm wondering what you will do if you have/had a big nice back yard at your home and people are jumping over the fence to stay there and enjoy it
People crossing borders might be aware of the illegality of it but I doubt if they see any immorality in it.
Yes, like Machiavelli said it:
The purpose excuses any used means
GreenCardVirus said:
Replying to earlier reply posted by you on my post.
$40 billion doesnt make a dent( as per you ) to the Vast US economy but it sure means a lot to the mexican economy. Thats why Mr Fox is claiming victory for his efforts to "get legalisation for all mexican In the US"
or a famous radio personality in mexico saying after the protests 'it goes to show that Los angeles is still ours ".
I for one cannot connect the dots .maybe you can explain why the President of the country the very same people deserted to come to the Us is fighting to get them legal. Why doesnt he give them what they need in his own country.Maybe he should do his job a little better.
Secondly tommorow if I move into your house I wonder what your reaction will be if I say First you cant throw me out and now you also pay for my utilities . As i would be aware of it legality issue but certainly not see any immorality in it.
Exactly! See how Mr. Fox cares about his ppl? What if Americans had gone to Mexico to wave American flags? I wonder what he would say.
Just to add to your comment, I was reading some of the immigration news that are all over right now and they raised a very important point. Cheap labor is great, but it comes with a price, our tax dollars are being spent on these people, so in the end, it's not cheap labor is not cheap anymore. Not to mention the fact that if you want to become a permanent resident, you must prove that you had taken certain vaccines and went through medical exams. Even students applying for F-1 visas need to go through some medical examination. Those poor individuals jumping over the fence could very easily be bringing diseases that had been erradicated. So how do we go about that? Illegal immigration is more expensive than it looks!
Just to add to your comment, I was reading some of the immigration news that are all over right now and they raised a very important point. Cheap labor is great, but it comes with a price, our tax dollars are being spent on these people, so in the end, it's not cheap labor is not cheap anymore. Not to mention the fact that if you want to become a permanent resident, you must prove that you had taken certain vaccines and went through medical exams. Even students applying for F-1 visas need to go through some medical examination. Those poor individuals jumping over the fence could very easily be bringing diseases that had been erradicated. So how do we go about that? Illegal immigration is more expensive than it looks!
Al_aos said:
GreenCardVirus
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Suzy977 said:
President Bush says we have to bring these people out of the "shadows" of the society. What does it mean by "shadows"? We know they exist, yet the society is oblivious to their existence. "Enjoy" dose'nt stick well here.
I believe your analogy is over simplified. This line of thinking could become very argumentative, I don't want to be drawn into it.
Anyways, ideally I should have thrown that person immediately out. I kept letting him stay and enjoy part of my back yard as long as that person is cutting my grass and cleaning my house for peanuts. Now, that person wants me to let him use my backyard permanently and I have become completely incapable of cutting my own grass. You tell me what I should do ???
I don't necessarily disagree with you. The first thought that popped up in my mind when I saw those recent protests in Phx/LA is that they are trying to show their "goon" power. The bill branding undocumented people as felons is getting no where (thanks that not everybody is insane in congress) -- so why the protests?
This message is not showing my opinion on the discussion that is going on here. I just read this story and it brought tears in my eyes. I would like to share this.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=1787254&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=1787254&page=1
Al_aos said:Replying to earlier reply posted by you on my post.
$40 billion doesn't make a dent( as per you ) to the Vast US economy but it sure means a lot to the mexican economy. That's why Mr Fox is claiming victory for his efforts to "get legalisation for all mexican In the US"
Why mister f$#@ing Fox doesn't take care of his people inside of his country and he needs to make order in our country
or a famous radio personality in mexico saying after the protests 'it goes to show that Los angeles is still ours ".
Is not, but will be soon, if America and the real Americans don't wake up!
I for one cannot connect the dots .maybe you can explain why the President of the country the very same people deserted to come to the Us is fighting to get them legal.
Because those people don't give a shit about US, they send all the money to Mexico, and becoming legal here they will make more money to send back HOME, and also will make room for the next wave of illegals the compadres of mister F...ing Fox
Why doesn't he give them what they need in his own country.Maybe he should do his job a little better.
Because it's easier to steal from the Americans
Secondly tomorrow if I move into your house I wonder what your reaction will be if I say First you cant throw me out and now you also pay for my utilities . As i would be aware of it legality issue but certainly not see any immorality in it.
Exactly what I've said a post before you
Probably if you do such a thing, our liberal "warmhearted" buddies here, will call in the next second 911 and have you arrested
Iam going to try and answer this post in a lighter vein,.GreenCardVirus said:
Firstly the guy mowing your back yard , maybe working for less , butyou are paying for his medical bills , you are paying for school bills ,you are paying for the extra burden on the city to provide for someone who may or may not be paying any taxes. So that lawn mowing guy is actually costing way more than you think.
My suggestion is ask him to leave with a forwarding address and goto the nearest Lowes /Homedepot and buy one them gizmo law mowers .
And later during the month if you still feel you cannot work or are too lazy to mowthe lawn maybe you can cal that guy again and nelive me he will come.
But this time make sure he understands your language and you deduct those taxes from his paycheck and he understands the language aropund your house.
I don't want to put the story in your link in a less perspective, but that same story repeats in every single country and not only from immigrants, is a normal sacrifice for many other people around the world! and I can tell you several like that....because those repeats in every single country poor or rich. Actually you don't have to go to far....people make comparison on race ha! and all that...go inside the country of the US.
Is well known that many parent's sacrifice in whatever matter so their children can go to bigger cities for better opportunities (within their countries), look closely and you will find the same story in your own country. At the end is in their kids to take advantage of it, unfortunately the same story can be viceversa even the parents sacrifice for their kids and they don't take advantage of their sacrificies. In the case of your story the kids were enough smart to do so and I am glad for them, unfortunately I can tell you others than don't.
Is well known that many parent's sacrifice in whatever matter so their children can go to bigger cities for better opportunities (within their countries), look closely and you will find the same story in your own country. At the end is in their kids to take advantage of it, unfortunately the same story can be viceversa even the parents sacrifice for their kids and they don't take advantage of their sacrificies. In the case of your story the kids were enough smart to do so and I am glad for them, unfortunately I can tell you others than don't.
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GreenCardVirus said:President Bush says we have to bring these people out of the "shadows" of the society. What does it mean by "shadows"? We know they exist, yet the society is oblivious to their existence. "Enjoy" dose'nt stick well here.
You and I "argued" constantly about this issue. But, your decent way of doing it, is appreciated and I have to go no lower than that...with you, here are other people who'll get what they asked for.
"Shadows" I call that "rat holes", but I'm not the President, I don't need to try to be politically correct.
"Enjoy" may or may not stick well here, but I repeat, this is not a Presidential discourse, is just a message typed in rush and sometimes the chosen words are not the best ones possible. The idea is what counts
I believe your analogy is over simplified. This line of thinking could become very argumentative, I don't want to be drawn into it.
That was the whole idea to simplify it, and this is why I'm expecting not to be taken literally.
Anyways, ideally I should have thrown that person immediately out.
You see...
I kept letting him stay and enjoy part of my back yard as long as that person is cutting my grass and cleaning my house for peanuts.
I doubt that...but for a second I'll pretend I agree with you.
Now, that person wants me to let him use my backyard permanently and I have become completely incapable of cutting my own grass. You tell me what I should do ???
First of all, that person in the very second you will accept him to stay permanently and he will know that you don't have any way to trow him out, will stop cutting the grass, will want to work inside of your house on your computer and if you need your grass cut you CAN DO IT YOURSELF, OR...HE CAN RECCOMEND HIS COUSIN WHO HAPPENS TO BE A FRESH ILLGAL WHO JUST JUMPED YOUR FENCE LAST NIGHT
I don't necessarily disagree with you. The first thought that popped up in my mind when I saw those recent protests in Phx/LA is that they are trying to show their "goon" power.
And that's the case!
amishah said:
Mass media has among other roles the role to manipulate people.
Nice good hearted people like you burst in tears at the first look at such a thing like this b.s. well presented story.
And then the connection is made: "Look at these poor illegal mexicans, they are such good people, and they work so hard"
College for 3 kids...it's a lot of money. Do you really believe that they put three kids through the college by collecting cans from the garbage!?!?!
And if they made so much money (hundred of thousands of $$$) from collecting cans, according with the U.S. laws, did they pay taxes on that money????
Of course not
I'm going to ask a question:
How many Americans, poor homeless, white, black are on the U.S. streets collecting food from garbage and aluminium cans???
I'm telling you: many, many more than ILLEGAL MEXICANS!
And many of those American homeless are veterans, people who did something for their country not ILLEGALS who came ILLEGALY here only for the reason that our garbage containers look and smell better than their own country.
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That my be true. Infact looks like what you are saying is the truth. It is media. But the thing is those homeless have work permit, they know English and goverment have several programs that help them get a job but they simply don't want to work. So the comparision is not at the same level. I myself working with unemployed people so that they can stand on their feet. But they just don't want to do anything.Suzy977 said:Mass media has among other roles the role to manipulate people.
Nice good hearted people like you burst in tears at the first look at such a thing like this b.s. well presented story.
And then the connection is made: "Look at these poor illegal mexicans, they are such good people, and they work so hard"
College for 3 kids...it's a lot of money. Do you really believe that they put three kids through the college by collecting cans from the garbage!?!?!
And if they made so much money (hundred of thousands of $$$) from collecting cans, according with the U.S. laws, did they pay taxes on that money????
Of course not
I'm going to ask a question:
How many Americans, poor homeless, white, black are on the U.S. streets collecting food from garbage and aluminium cans???
I'm telling you: many, many more than ILLEGAL MEXICANS!
And many of those American homeless are veterans, people who did something for their country not ILLEGALS who came ILLEGALY here only for the reason that our garbage containers look and smell better than their own country.
I am not in favor or against the illegals. I am still kind of debating.
Bella Blues
Registered Users (C)
In response to the Original topic
The original topic was a question about amnesty and I want to ask about that. I don't think Bush will approve it, but if for some reason or another an amnesty gets approved, does it really mean that people like me who are waiting for our priority date to become current will experience even longer backlogs? Is that what happened during the last amnesty in 1986? Who has experience about this topic?
The original topic was a question about amnesty and I want to ask about that. I don't think Bush will approve it, but if for some reason or another an amnesty gets approved, does it really mean that people like me who are waiting for our priority date to become current will experience even longer backlogs? Is that what happened during the last amnesty in 1986? Who has experience about this topic?
Bella Blues said:
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe CIS is going to be overwhelmed with the illegals who will apply for GC and other docs. and people like you will have to wait quietly in line.
Amnesty is the equivalent of "Reward for breaking the law"!...it doesn't apply to legal immigrants and law-obeying people, in general
Pinturicchio
Registered Users (C)
Suzy977 said:I'm not 100% sure, but I believe CIS is going to be overwhelmed with the illegals who will apply for GC and other docs. and people like you will have to wait quietly in line.
Amnesty is the equivalent of "Reward for breaking the law"!...it doesn't apply to legal immigrants and law-obeying people, in general
I'd say CIS would be the least of his worries. I'd love to see how the FBI's NNCP would cope with the 11 million entries newly entered into the system.....
You may not notice, but 2001 245(i) is causing HUGE backlog today on EB category, and 5 years retrogression suddenly came from nowhere last September. The same thing can happen on FB, however, good news is GC process is always based on PD and if you have old PD, you are fine.Bella Blues said:
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GreenCardVirus
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This time if they make "Legals" wait because they are processing "Illegals", I am sure there will be some major back lash.
The reason why it did not happen last time after the Amnesty program ended on April 2001 is because the proirity dates for EB1 thru EB3 were current for a long time.
Worst of all, the Amnesty program was started with out any separate quota. So the "illegal" applicants were competing for Visa numbers with "Legal" Applicants in EB3 category. What this basically means is that a Computer Engineer who landed in JFK was waiting for a Grass Cutter who sneaked in thru Sonoran Desert to get processed.
I dont blame the "illegals", but the politicians who come up with such things are to be blamed. For them all that matters is that outer limit of visa numbers. They dont care how it is implemented or what are the impacts of it.
Another thing that strikes me is Schedule A nurses. Congress decided that they should get Green Cards with almost no wait. Fine - no problem. But not at the expense of those who are already waiting.
My biggest fear about recent amnesty talk is how it will affect those already waiting.
The reason why it did not happen last time after the Amnesty program ended on April 2001 is because the proirity dates for EB1 thru EB3 were current for a long time.
Worst of all, the Amnesty program was started with out any separate quota. So the "illegal" applicants were competing for Visa numbers with "Legal" Applicants in EB3 category. What this basically means is that a Computer Engineer who landed in JFK was waiting for a Grass Cutter who sneaked in thru Sonoran Desert to get processed.
I dont blame the "illegals", but the politicians who come up with such things are to be blamed. For them all that matters is that outer limit of visa numbers. They dont care how it is implemented or what are the impacts of it.
Another thing that strikes me is Schedule A nurses. Congress decided that they should get Green Cards with almost no wait. Fine - no problem. But not at the expense of those who are already waiting.
My biggest fear about recent amnesty talk is how it will affect those already waiting.
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