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DV 2015 KENYA SELECTEES FORUM

ingwe said:
Speaking of constitutions;in my country one can marry one wife on civil laws and a second wife on customary laws.Its acceptably lawfull.But this is not considered polygamy.
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...and the Nairobi Embassy is privy to this...
 
Britsimon said:
The US immigration system is (in my opinion) quite "accepting" of various forms of marriage. They do recognize some traditional marriages IF those marriages are recognized by the laws of the country where the marriage took place. Marriage is different all over the world - and the US accepts that, within reason.

For Reez, his case has disqualification written all over it. If he believed he was married to wife B, why did he get a legal divorce from wife A. He can't have been married to both of them because Kenya doesn't recognize Polygamous marriages and US immigration would have something to say about that too. He has correctly listed all the truthful details on his DS260, but I cannot see how he can get to the point where he was legally married to wife B at the point of the eDV entry.
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Thanks@Britsimon. A minor correction though, Kenyan law allows polygamy in traditional & Muslim marriages. Problem arises with issues like DV since the US will only at the end of the day accept a monogamous union. For the majority who do traditional marriages we have to get the government certificate for DV purposes. With the laws here recently amended those conducting traditional marriages can apply for government marriage certificates. Trouble is that legally, traditional marriages are recognized as polygamous or potentially polygamous. In a polygamous set up you could be in the process of divorce and still get married to a second or third wife. Guess that was Reezes situation (not sure).
For my case, our union though traditional was to remain monogamous. But at the time of getting the certificate it was converted to a civil marriage. My only concern is with the two dates (the traditional and the civil one). With your opinion it appears all is OK. Thanks.
 
Sm1smom said:
The issue you should be concerned with IMO is the marriage date listed on your eDV application. My guess is you listed your current spouse on your eDV application, and it doesn't sound like you were legally divorced from your ex by then, you however finalized the divorce and recently obtained the divorce papers which enabled you to get a recent marriage certificate, correct? How do you plan on expanding that?
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I appreciate admins responses;but issuing blanket responses on issues marriage to me is failing to recognise the global complexity of the institution called marriage.Thanks
 
Britsimon said:
Are you confusing the terms polygamy and bigamy?
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Simon and Ingwe, may I kindly clarify to you that civil marriages in Kenya are strictly monogamous. The only legally polygamous marriages are the traditional and Muslim marriages. Church weddings are legally deemed as monogamous. Currently, traditional marriages too can be registered and issued with a certificate. Just google 'kenyan marriage laws'
 
ingwe said:
I appreciate admins responses;but issuing blanket responses on issues marriage to me is failing to recognise the global complexity of the institution called marriage.Thanks
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There may be "global complexity" (I also come from somewhere that recognises more than one wife) but - and despite the protestations above about what is legal and whatever after six months or running away or whatever - the fact remains that a person put one wife while he had another and the documents he can produce do not suit his case. What's to stop anyone just going to an interview with a different spouse and saying the same thing? It is not the same situation as just having a wife that you had customarily married - because of the previous wife that was actually not previous there is another potential derivative. I'd love to hear the feedback on this interview. My personal feeling is that britsimon is right and this will be DV fees for 4 people wasted.
 
Britsimon said:
I think the marriage law changes as recently as last year are also confusing the issue.
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You are right@Britsimon. Largely, the changes were meant to legally recognize traditional marriages and guide them to enable women lay claim to property ownership even in polygamous setup. Clearly they were obviously disadvantaged in the older arrangement.
I guess where our laws conflict with the DV requirements the DV legal requirements reign supreme and we have to somehow shape up or ship out.
 
coronahope said:
You are right@Britsimon. Largely, the changes were meant to legally recognize traditional marriages and guide them to enable women lay claim to property ownership even in polygamous setup. Clearly they were obviously disadvantaged in the older arrangement.
I guess where our laws conflict with the DV requirements the DV legal requirements reign supreme and we have to somehow shape up or ship out.
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I guess only one marriage certificate is issued to any polygamous marriage as per our constitution-stand to be corrected and obviously depends with who (wife No1 or No2 ) secures the certificate first.The whole thing is so confusing almost likened to the GAY MARRIAGE-The Nairobi America Embassy would recognize Gay marriage and hence two gentlemen who walks in to the Embassy will be required to produce a marriage certificate-Now the KENYA Government won't issue any what will happen to this?Will the Embassy force the Government to issue one or the Embassy will corrupt its own system siting some clauses of Unfair and discrimination treatment.
 
My advice for the guys worried about the traditional Marriage ceremony would be to go completely prepared. Go with pictures from the ceremony and the several months or years you have been together. A letter from your ex-wife stating that you had amicably separated since whenever and that she was aware of your relationship with your present wife. At the end of the day it is a chance IF you go through with the application. Backing out means 100% no chance. The risk is a few thousand dollars and quashed hopes. If you can risk them by all means go ahead. Do let us know of the outcome.
 
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ingwe said:
Speaking of constitutions;in my country one can marry one wife on civil laws and a second wife on customary laws.Its acceptably lawfull.But this is not considered polygamy.
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Can you show us which section of the Kenyan constitution says being married to two women, one under civil and the other under customary laws, does not constitute polygamy?
 
Simon said:
Did I state that!!! Am thoughtful of what I say and always avoid being cheap...
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Did you state "no need to reply"? - Yes you did
Did you state "don't spoil for a fight" - Yes you did
Did you state "the U.S. embassy in Nairobi is an exemption to immigration laws"? - Yes you did
Did you state an affidavit "is a magic wand"? - Yes you did, and I went ahead to give two examples of how absurd it is to make such a claim that an affidavit can fix every discrepancy in an immigration application simply because the embassy has a list of authorized lawyers who can draft the affidavit on their website.

So what has "being cheap" got to do with the conversation?
 
ingwe said:
I appreciate admins responses;but issuing blanket responses on issues marriage to me is failing to recognise the global complexity of the institution called marriage.Thanks
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One thing you need to realize is that most of the times when we ask further questions following the initial questions posted by members and subsequently respond, what we're trying to do is get people to better prepare for their interviews and to understand the fact that the meanings ascribed to whatever the situation they're dealing with is beyond the definition they may initially ascribe to it. Yes your country may have its unique definition of what constitutes a marriage, but you need to understand the CO isn't from your country and may not necessarily understand that. The kind of questions and guidance we provide is geared towards helping people better respond at the time of interview.

p.s. Some of us here equally are originally from Africa, so don't assume we have no idea of how things apply or work in Africa.
 
Sm1smom said:
Can you show us which section of the Kenyan constitution says being married to two women, one under civil and the other under customary laws, does not constitute polygamy?
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Civil marriages in Kenya are legally monogamous. You would have to first legally divorce for you to be free to engage in a customary marriage. The laws recently changed. Those entering into a marriage contract must now choose which type of marriage to engage in. You cannot have it both ways.
 
Sm1smom said:
One thing you need to realize is that most of the times when we ask further questions following the initial questions posted by members and subsequently respond, what we're trying to do is get people to better prepare for their interviews and to understand the fact that the meanings ascribed to whatever the situation they're dealing with is beyond the definition they may initially ascribe to it. Yes your country may have its unique definition of what constitutes a marriage, but you need to understand the CO isn't from your country and may not necessarily understand that. The kind of questions and guidance we provide is geared towards helping people better respond at the time of interview.

p.s. Some of us here equally are originally from Africa, so don't assume we have no idea of how things apply or work in Africa.
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Your input Mom is greatly appreciated. I pray that all may focus on the gist of the matter, that is to offer sound advise to those seeking help on their DV journey.
 
Sm1smom said:
Did you state "no need to reply"? - Yes you did
Did you state "don't spoil for a fight" - Yes you did
Did you state "the U.S. embassy in Nairobi is an exemption to immigration laws"? - Yes you did
Did you state an affidavit "is a magic wand"? - Yes you did, and I went ahead to give two examples of how absurd it is to make such a claim that an affidavit can fix every discrepancy in an immigration application simply because the embassy has a list of authorized lawyers who can draft the affidavit on their website.

So what has "being cheap" got to do with the conversation?
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...after giving my personal opinion of the use of affidavits "instead of quitting the entire process due to what you call marriage discrepancies" you instead rubbished my idea as ridiculous and i quote"Indeed. So ridiculous! EDIT:I think affidavit is the new PEPTO BISMOL"
 
Sm1smom said:
One thing you need to realize is that most of the times when we ask further questions following the initial questions posted by members and subsequently respond, what we're trying to do is get people to better prepare for their interviews and to understand the fact that the meanings ascribed to whatever the situation they're dealing with is beyond the definition they may initially ascribe to it. Yes your country may have its unique definition of what constitutes a marriage, but you need to understand the CO isn't from your country and may not necessarily understand that. The kind of questions and guidance we provide is geared towards helping people better respond at the time of interview.

p.s. Some of us here equally are originally from Africa, so don't assume we have no idea of how things apply or work in Africa.
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... and you know what:most of our input is done out of our own understanding of both the Government of Kenya and its diverse traditions-and NOT AFRICA AS a whole.For your information we have 42 tribes in Kenya which have diverse ways when dealing with marriages,just Google some of court rulings on marriages in Kenya and you will understand some ruling were or are based on tradition( a case in mind is for the late Wambui Otieno verses Her late Criminal lawyer and the Luo community)
 
Simon said:
... and you know what:most of our input is done out of our own understanding of both the Government of Kenya and its diverse traditions-and NOT AFRICA AS a whole.For your information we have 42 tribes in Kenya which have diverse ways when dealing with marriages,just Google some of court rulings on marriages in Kenya and you will understand some ruling were or are based on tradition( a case in mind is for the late Wambui Otieno verses Her late Criminal lawyer and the Luo community)
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I can absolutely guarantee you that the US embassy in Nairobi does not have 42 different ways of treating marriage.
And we already know that the US does not blindly accept local tradition or even laws, because if they did they would allow men from certain countries to list more than one wife as a derivative, and they don't. So you should equally not just blindly assume that because something is done a certain way in Kenya (or anywhere), that that is automatically acceptable to the embassy for immigration visa purposes.
 
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