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Taxes while ouside US
- Thread starter ma21
- Start date
AmericanWannabe
Registered Users (C)
Has any ordinary US citizen been convicted of
not reporting foreign income he earned when staying
outside the USA?
>They can ask you where every penny of your money comes >from, and if you don't have a convincing story, you would be in >deep trouble.
All that you have to say is: "I onvoke my 5th".
I think that in criminal court, you don't have to give
a convincing story. You can just refuse to say anything
by taking your 5th. The burden of proof is on
the government. Your don't have to prove you do not
have income abroad but the US attoney has to prove
on thei rown you do have income abroad.
They can not say to the jury
"This guy lives outside USA for 10 years and come
back alive without starving to death so that he must
have earned some income". Your defense attorney
then can shout:" Objection, speculation" The judge
will say "Sustained". Even if the judge overrule
your lawyer's objection, your lawyer can say:"
Is it possible that , considering the defendant
has deep family root there, he can rely on his family
for food, clothing and sheltering so that he does
not need work to earn income?" This sound reasonble
doubt to me.
The bottomline is: It is a crime not to report foreign-income,
but you can defend yourself without commining any
other crime like perjury. You simply do not say anything
when the IRS ask if you have any income abroad
by taking your 5th. Unless foreign government or your
relatives, coworkers, exployer in teh foreign country
where you worked come to testify, basically the government
can not do anything to convict you. And I doubt that
the US attoney bother to transport foreign witness all teh way
to the US in order to convict an ordinary citizen and all relevant foreign witness do not have to answer US subpenas
(also remembber hearsay rule and the 6th amendment
requires they have to testify in person not by writing)
I am not saying you should avoid taxes. But for the fun of
discussing legal techcality. I merely say that you may not
have to worry too much about a tax conviction because
you are protected by so much court rule.
not reporting foreign income he earned when staying
outside the USA?
>They can ask you where every penny of your money comes >from, and if you don't have a convincing story, you would be in >deep trouble.
All that you have to say is: "I onvoke my 5th".
I think that in criminal court, you don't have to give
a convincing story. You can just refuse to say anything
by taking your 5th. The burden of proof is on
the government. Your don't have to prove you do not
have income abroad but the US attoney has to prove
on thei rown you do have income abroad.
They can not say to the jury
"This guy lives outside USA for 10 years and come
back alive without starving to death so that he must
have earned some income". Your defense attorney
then can shout:" Objection, speculation" The judge
will say "Sustained". Even if the judge overrule
your lawyer's objection, your lawyer can say:"
Is it possible that , considering the defendant
has deep family root there, he can rely on his family
for food, clothing and sheltering so that he does
not need work to earn income?" This sound reasonble
doubt to me.
The bottomline is: It is a crime not to report foreign-income,
but you can defend yourself without commining any
other crime like perjury. You simply do not say anything
when the IRS ask if you have any income abroad
by taking your 5th. Unless foreign government or your
relatives, coworkers, exployer in teh foreign country
where you worked come to testify, basically the government
can not do anything to convict you. And I doubt that
the US attoney bother to transport foreign witness all teh way
to the US in order to convict an ordinary citizen and all relevant foreign witness do not have to answer US subpenas
(also remembber hearsay rule and the 6th amendment
requires they have to testify in person not by writing)
I am not saying you should avoid taxes. But for the fun of
discussing legal techcality. I merely say that you may not
have to worry too much about a tax conviction because
you are protected by so much court rule.
Last edited by a moderator:
AmericanWannabe
Registered Users (C)
Some citizens were born overseas and came to the USA
only when they were quite grow up. I don't know if
they can be prosecuted if they did not pay taxes for
pratical reasons or they did not know such laws.
Usually ignorance of law is not defense in courts.
There are some excepotions. In one case,
a guy entered the USA with more than $10,000
cash but did not know he had to declare to
teh customs so he did not. He was charged but the court
ruled that he was not guilty because he did not know
such laws. (anyoen who read this message
thus know this law and will be technically guilty
if you carry 10,000 bucks into teh USA without
declariing it). Don't know any others type of
offense can be defended with the excuse of ingorance of
law (hopefully one day some court rule for
not carrying the GC).
Ignorance of the fact is usually a good defence.
But in strict liability crime, neitehr ignorance of
law nor ignorance if the fact is a defense
(like statutory rape, speeding ticket, selling alcohol/tobacco
to minors)
only when they were quite grow up. I don't know if
they can be prosecuted if they did not pay taxes for
pratical reasons or they did not know such laws.
Usually ignorance of law is not defense in courts.
There are some excepotions. In one case,
a guy entered the USA with more than $10,000
cash but did not know he had to declare to
teh customs so he did not. He was charged but the court
ruled that he was not guilty because he did not know
such laws. (anyoen who read this message
thus know this law and will be technically guilty
if you carry 10,000 bucks into teh USA without
declariing it). Don't know any others type of
offense can be defended with the excuse of ingorance of
law (hopefully one day some court rule for
not carrying the GC).
Ignorance of the fact is usually a good defence.
But in strict liability crime, neitehr ignorance of
law nor ignorance if the fact is a defense
(like statutory rape, speeding ticket, selling alcohol/tobacco
to minors)
AmericanWannabe
Registered Users (C)
I heard the statute of limitation for criminal charges
against not paying tax is only 3 years. There are
even statute of limitations for vicil penalties. So
if a citizen lives outside the USA for 10 years, he
only need to pay taxes on last 3 years to avoid
criminal prosecution
against not paying tax is only 3 years. There are
even statute of limitations for vicil penalties. So
if a citizen lives outside the USA for 10 years, he
only need to pay taxes on last 3 years to avoid
criminal prosecution