Staying overseas, by periods not exceeding 6 months...

[Osiris94]

Hi all!

Here is my situation:
I'm a French citizen, and I've been a happy Green Card holder since May 2003. I went back to France twice in 2004. I stayed 1 week on the first trip and about 20 days on the second one...

However, in search of a better job and a travel experience, I decided to go to Japan. After obtaining a 1-year Japanese working visa, I left the US for Japan in January 2005. Prior to leaving, I got some info on the BCIS website about how to maintain Legal Permanent Residency, and I decided to always come back to the US within 6 months.

When I came back to the US in June after 5 months and a half in Japan, I was asked a few questions by the custom officer, but it went quite smoothly after she started believing I was coming back to the US for good. I didn't contradict her. 3 days later, I was on my way to Japan again...

Yesterday, I just got back from this second trip to Japan. It was again after a stay shorter than 6 months. This time, I had to answer more questions from the custom officer. He asked about my previous trips to Japan and what I did there. I wasn't quite sure about how much info he had in hands, but I chose to answer honestly. However, when he repeatidely asked me if I was back to the US for good with the intent to work here, I felt I had no choice but say "yes" even though I'm actually planning to go back to Japan in January 2006. He finally let me go but after writing this note below the stamp on my passport: "OUT (or CN7.. can't read well) 6 MS - ADV LPR RC-QS".

1. Does anyone know what this note exactly means?
2. I had already booked a flight LA-Osaka-LA before my return to the US. It seems the custom officer didn't have access to this info. But is there a probability that he could have had this info?... which is retrospectively a scary thought...

I've had plans to repeat the exact same moves this year... I should obtain a 1-year renewal of my Japanese working permit in January. That would allow me to stay one more year in Japan where I've had a pleasant time so far. In any case, since am also seeking eligibility for naturalization, I won't stay in Japan for more than an additional year in order to keep my total stay there to under 2 years. I will make this again in 2 stays of a little less than 6 months each. The flight ticket that I booked is for a departure from LA on Jan 3rd, returning in June. Then I'll stay in the US for a couple of days before leaving for a last trip...
This was my plan until I read a few "horror tales" and careful recommendations from lawyers on this website... Now I'm wondering:

3. Am I risking my Green Card if I leave again in January, now that I have this note on my passport? Will the custom officers notice a pattern in my multiple stays and determine that I abandoned my residency in the US?
4. What documents would I need to prove that I will keep my residency in the US and that my stay in Japan will be only temporary? (I already have a contract from a Japanese company which will expire in Nov 2006)
5. Would it be safer if I apply for a re-entry permit to return in June 2006 even though I won't stay abroad over 6 months?

Thanks a lot for any response!!

 

[nato]

JoeF, what if one is paid in US but works abroad

and will the situation change if pending 485 vs post GC

This means that you are getting into serious trouble.
Expect much more questioning the next time around. Every border officer from now on will see the note written in your passport. They will now know that the officer at that time already had serious doubts if you maintained your GC. So they will ask more questions about that.
Taking a job up abroad is a strong indication that you abandoned your GC.
It is not and has never been enough to just show up once in a while in the US. You have to live here to keep your GC.
A reentry permit doesn't necessarily help, either.
I suggest you find a job in the US and stay here for good, otherwise, you may well lose the GC on your next entry.

 

[nato]

so would that imply with pending 485 one can work abroad > 180 days

and there is no problem coming back to US on AP after 180 days

With a pending I-485, you don't even have a GC yet, so abandonment of the GC is obviously not an issue.

 

[baikal3]

You are really playing with fire here and in my private opinion you may already be in quite a bit of trouble. This is not about as you put it "reading horror stories", this is about complying with the plain meaning of the law.

You need to keep the U.S. as your primary place of residence and employment in order to keep a GC status. The best I can tell, you don't own a home in the U.S., and neither do you have a job here.
What is more, on the return from your last trip you appear to have lied to the immigration officer by saying that you were coming back here for good while in reality you already had a plane ticket to Japan for January 2006 and you had every intention to leave then. Whatever special notations in your passport (I do not know what they mean), this stuff can catch up with you sooner or later and then you will be in real trouble.

Yesterday, I just got back from this second trip to Japan. It was again after a stay shorter than 6 months. This time, I had to answer more questions from the custom officer. He asked about my previous trips to Japan and what I did there. I wasn't quite sure about how much info he had in hands, but I chose to answer honestly. However, when he repeatidely asked me if I was back to the US for good with the intent to work here, I felt I had no choice but say "yes" even though I'm actually planning to go back to Japan in January 2006. He finally let me go but after writing this note below the stamp on my passport: "OUT (or CN7.. can't read well) 6 MS - ADV LPR RC-QS".

1. Does anyone know what this note exactly means?
2. I had already booked a flight LA-Osaka-LA before my return to the US. It seems the custom officer didn't have access to this info. But is there a probability that he could have had this info?... which is retrospectively a scary thought...

I've had plans to repeat the exact same moves this year... I should obtain a 1-year renewal of my Japanese working permit in January. That would allow me to stay one more year in Japan where I've had a pleasant time so far. In any case, since am also seeking eligibility for naturalization, I won't stay in Japan for more than an additional year in order to keep my total stay there to under 2 years. I will make this again in 2 stays of a little less than 6 months each. The flight ticket that I booked is for a departure from LA on Jan 3rd, returning in June. Then I'll stay in the US for a couple of days before leaving for a last trip...
This was my plan until I read a few "horror tales" and careful recommendations from lawyers on this website... Now I'm wondering:

3. Am I risking my Green Card if I leave again in January, now that I have this note on my passport? Will the custom officers notice a pattern in my multiple stays and determine that I abandoned my residency in the US?

In my opinion, yes, you do risk the immigration officer determining that you have abandoned your permanent resident status in the U.S. Moreover, whether or not the immigation officer prevents you from reentry the next time around, this problem may catch up with you later on.

4. What documents would I need to prove that I will keep my residency in the US and that my stay in Japan will be only temporary? (I already have a contract from a Japanese company which will expire in Nov 2006)

I think that if you really want to have a chance of being in the clear regarding the U.S. immigration laws, you need to tear up both your January ticket to Japan and your contract there, find a job in the U.S. and settle here for good now.


Even if you can prove the next time that your stay in Japan was temporary, there is still the little matter of lying to the immigration officer upon re-entry this time.

5. Would it be safer if I apply for a re-entry permit to return in June 2006 even though I won't stay abroad over 6 months?

No, in my opinion, absolutely not. Having or not having a reentry permit has nothing to do with maintaining your LPR status here. The only thing that a reentry permit allows you to do is to re-enter the U.S. after more than one year but less than two years abroad without having to obtain a returning resident visa first.

 

[Osiris94]

Even if you can prove the next time that your stay in Japan was temporary, there is still the little matter of lying to the immigration officer upon re-entry this time.

How will any immigration officer ever determine that I lied to this officer at that time regarding my intent to stay in the US? Can they leave notes in people's file? May he have written something like "intends to stay and work in the US for a while..." Then next time if they see that I left 10 days later, they might think there is something wrong?... I don't think the notation that the last officer put down in my passport has anything to do with this matter. He really believed me when I told him I was going to stay. I suppose his notation is more like an advice for the next officer to ask more general questions about my residency.

At my re-entry in June, the officer also believed that I was going to stay in the US for good (even though I didn't really say so). Then I was never asked by the next officer why I left again in the beginning of July...

in my private opinion you may already be in quite a bit of trouble.

Moreover, whether or not the immigation officer prevents you from reentry the next time around, this problem may catch up with you later on.

What do you mean by "already in quite a bit of trouble" and "this problem may catch up with you later on"? You are referring to the notation in my passport, right? But if I decide to stay and work in the US from now on, I should stay out of trouble for good, no? Do you think an officer might question me again about this stay in Japan even if I'm trying to re-enter the country from a short vacation trip somewhere else, let's say 6 months from now?


And again, does anyone know what this notation means exactly:

"OUT 6 MOS - ADV LPR RC-QS" ???

 

[baikal3]

How will any immigration officer ever determine that I lied to this officer at that time regarding my intent to stay in the US? Can they leave notes in people's file? May he have written something like "intends to stay and work in the US for a while..." Then next time if they see that I left 10 days later, they might think there is something wrong?... I don't think the notation that the last officer put down in my passport has anything to do with this matter. He really believed me when I told him I was going to stay. I suppose his notation is more like an advice for the next officer to ask more general questions about my residency.

At my re-entry in June, the officer also believed that I was going to stay in the US for good (even though I didn't really say so). Then I was never asked by the next officer why I left again in the beginning of July...


What do you mean by "already in quite a bit of trouble" and "this problem may catch up with you later on"? You are referring to the notation in my passport, right? But if I decide to stay and work in the US from now on, I should stay out of trouble for good, no? Do you think an officer might question me again about this stay in Japan even if I'm trying to re-enter the country from a short vacation trip somewhere else, let's say 6 months from now?


And again, does anyone know what this notation means exactly:

"OUT 6 MOS - ADV LPR RC-QS" ???

I don't know if an immigration officer can already make some sort of notations (e.g. "indicated that intends to stay and work in the U.S. for a while") based on a re-entry interview. But it might be possible or it might become possible in the near future. One thing that is quite clear now is that they are continually tightening the screws when it comes to immigration enforcement and are increasing the use of technology for that purpose.

And yes, I do think that all these trips to and from Japan may come to the attention of an immigration officer later on, when you re-enter from another trip (not necessarly from Japan) or apply for citizenship. This will most certainly happen if you do go to Japan in January and then try to reenter several months later. Even if they don't have a record of you saying that you were going to stay here for good after the current reentry, you will still have a very hard time explaining your situation and, in my opinion, may be denied reentry.

I do think that if you get a job and rent/buy a home in the U.S. now, you'll probably be fine. Even if you are questioned upon a reentry from a short trip abroad later, you will be able to document and to prove that you really do live and work in the U.S. (a lease/mortgage, W-2, paystubs, bank statements, utility bills, etc).


On the other hand, the option of officially abandoning an LPR status may be quite reasonable and even preferable for some people, depending on one's personal, financial and career circumstances.

 

[Osiris94]

How would you know? He had his suspicions, otherwise he wouldn't have put the note in your passport.

1. Yes, you're right. The officer was suspicious. But the point was: how will they be able to establish later on that I didn't tell about my real intents at that time? I was wondering if officers ever keep track of what people tell them...

2. Regarding the note in my passport, what if I get a new passport, pretending I lost it or for any other reason? I know the Immigration will still have trace of my previous trips in their records, but at least I'll get rid of this red flag in my passport, right. Because I'm also afraid this note might bring me more complications when I apply for citizenship, just like baikal3 said...

3. I will probably talk to a lawyer these days before making my final decision, but based on you guys' advice, I'm already planning on not returning to Japan. It will be quite a hassle for me since I still have a job, bank account, apartment, and many belongings there.

Keeping legal residency in the States is still my priority, and I want to save myself the stress of having to prove my residency and my intent to live in the US every time I cross the border. However, just out of curiosity, I was wondering if in the absolute I would still comply with the residency law if I decided to follow my plans for next year. I wanted to stay and work in Japan until December 2006 (coming back a few days in June), but I have always had full and honest intent to return and settle in the US for good after that. I would have kept my car, my bank account, my address at a friend's, and some personal belongings in the US...

4. Will it be easier for me to have long-term stays abroad if I become a US citizen?..

 

[TheEnquirer]

2. Regarding the note in my passport, what if I get a new passport, pretending I lost it or for any other reason? I know the Immigration will still have trace of my previous trips in their records, but at least I'll get rid of this red flag in my passport, right. Because I'm also afraid this note might bring me more complications when I apply for citizenship, just like baikal3 said...

..

they have this one marked in the computer records as well. its sounds soemthing like
"advised to maintain LPR status"

 

[botwanajim]

Watch OUT! You're in trouble!

Hi there!

I don't know the exact details in your passport. But I had similar situation, and the officer wrote "Advised to keep residency" a few years ago in my passport. He verbally and strongly told me that "next time you're up before a judge. You can explain [your rubbish] to him". [He didn't say rubbish, but I added it in myself. But I guess he said that 'immigration' will no longer be interested in hearing stories or excuses even if true - only a deportation judge!]

It scared the heck out of me, because though I had many long trips abroad, I never ever want to lose the privilige of LPR. I am also European origin.

Like you, I also want to go abroad, earn money, but maintain ties here. Frankly, if you don't have family here; don't have a house that is 'vacant' when you are away [otherwise, they will prove that you are not 'residing' here, get it?] ; if you don't have job here - then it is easy for them or anyone, anywhere to determine that you are not genuinely a resident.

If the the exact situation when a foreign national, like a Tunisian with Tunisian passport in France, goes to an American Embassy and applies for a visa. The US Embassy will ask 'do you intend to return to France or Tunisia after visit to US?" The Tunisian will say "Yes. Of course". The U.S. Embassy will ask "What is your job? What is your wages? Where is your house?". The Tunisian may say "I have no job in France. I have no house, but stay with friends". The US Embassy will deny visa and justify it as "we do not believe that he intends to merely visit USA because he has no sufficient ties nor reasons to return to France!" . In your case, to a customs officer, it looks like you spend a substantial time abroad - which is true - and IF YOU lack sufficient proof that you are a genuine LPR then you're out.

I guess this brings me to a new phrase. There is a difference [in the mind not legally] between "genuine LPR" and "non-genuine LPR". A "genuine LPR" has sufficient ties to the US - like job, house [rent or purchased], driving licence, bank account, and bills.

A "non-genuine LPR" is spending a lot of time abroad, without job in the USA, withOUT home awaiting him in the US, without any bills to pay in the US. But he DOES have Green CArd ! This means that he is ALL RIGHT if he stays in the US. But if he [you] leave the US, you are likely to be heavily challenged and prevented from re-entering.

Please remember, as a NON-US citizen, contrary to popular belief, you have NO RIGHT to be given automatic re-entry into the USA !! You can be denied entry! On what grounds? If they think that you are a "non-genuine LPR" !

Only a US Citizen has COMPLETE RIGHTS to come and go; or stay out for 50,000 years and then come back !!! ONLY A U.S. CITIZEN, I repeat. Everyone else is NON-US citizen, and I repeat, can be DENIED ENTRY.

I know this sounds awful. But it's the truth. It's been this way for years and years. I guess they want to know that you are PAYING TAXES, you are WORKING [and therefore helping USA], and not merely using USA as a 'base' to come back to. And I know that since 1906 [yes!] they already realised that as soon as people get American Citizenship, many return to their home countries [!] and yet still seek the protection of the US Government. The US government hated this situation! But the truth is, there is nothing they can do to prevent it ONCE one is a citizen.

Therefore, the only way to counter that is to prevent the person from being citizen; which normally means "vetting them out whilst they are a LPR" ! Get it? In summary: you are not spending time here; you have no job here; you are not renting property when you are AWAY; [and don't think that you can buy a house and rent it out AND STILL CLAIM residency, because CASE LAW shows that this is NO ARGUMENT, it does NOT work!!!!! A Jap was thrown out!].

Buddy, with sad heart, it seems that there is an invisible contract between the US and yourself when you are a LPR. One of invisible terms is that you must have job in USA, and other strong ties to USA; otherwise whenever you return to the USA, you can be STOPPED AND BOOTED OUT FOREVER!

This means - sorry, give up your job.

Alternative way that may work [but others on this board probably won't like my suggestion below]:

1...Get a official "Re-entry Permit";
2...Do things in the USA which show evidence that you have strong ties to the USA - this includes

a/ ALWAYS FILE AND PAY FEDERAL TAXES HERE [ALWAYS, VERY VERY IMPORTANT];
b/ Nice to own house that you leave VACANT [expensive option but worth it because it shows EVIDENCE CLEARLY that you always intend to return!!!!];
c/ YES - talk to immigration attorney, because you need to be sure of things [although sadly, I suspect there is NO CRYSTAL CLEAR SURE METHOD! This is a vague area of the law and depends on the DISCRETION OF IMMIGRATION OFFICER!];
d/ Have bank accounts from the USA - that you use
e/ Carry ALL EVIDENCE everytime you return to the USA
F/ I suspect that you have letter from employer in Japan stating 'how long they are hiring you for'; that it is a temporary position
g/ Taxes again: make sure you pay US TAXES on your JAPANESE INCOME! Sorry, that means no tax-free status !!!!!! It is EXPENSIVE WAY, I KNOW! But at least it shows you are genuinely resident in USA !

H/ The above are my guesses. I may be completely wrong. I am 100% certain that if you stay in USA, you will have no problems !

GOOD LUCK! [Or maybe forget luck and stay in USA]

 

[botwanajim]

I have just reviewed some postings on this board - and it comes to my attention that there is NO CASE LAW that states:

1 - Person WITH RE-ENTRY permit THAT GETS DENIED ENTRY AS LPR for time abroad, as long as the reason for being abroad is the same as the reason for getting re-entry permit.

This means - that a/ getting re-entry permit AND AND AND b/keeping ties to the USA is sufficient to be allowed back in !!!! You can have that job in Japan after all !!!

But please note: even though there is no case law, it IS possible that you will be challenged at POE. I think it is IMprobable that you will be denied re-entry AFTER you get re-entry permit, but it IS possible [anything is possible for NON-US CITIZEN that does NOT have same rights as US citizen! Get it?]

Even so, double-check with immigration attorney BECAUSE your passport as red-flag, and perhaps the immigration computers have record of this!

BTW, I personally don't think immigration computers have record of red-flag: but I don't know, nor does anyone else! It is secret stuff held by immigration!

 

[Osiris94]

Botwanajim, thanks for sharing your experience.

I finally decided to play it safe and settle back in the US. I'm already looking for job and apartment... It's quite a sacrifice for me since I was all set up in Japan, but after all it would be too bad to lose this Green Card that I feel lucky to have. Even with this red flag in my passport, I think I should be fine if I genuinely reside and live in the US and only travel abroad for short vacation trips.

My next concern being naturalization, I was wondering if this stay in Japan would affect my eligibility to apply for citizenship in 2008. I made sure each of my 2 trips to Japan didn't exceed 180 days in order to comply with the continuous residency requirements. However, some of my friends heard from their immigration attorney that staying out of the country for a total of more than 6 months within the same calendar year might be a problem, even if each stay lasted less than 180 days. They said that it would have been better if I had been away let's say from June to June, so that my stay would have been spread over 2 different years... I didn't know time-in of trips mattered. I couldn't find anything related to this issue on the BCIS website.

Considering my 2 trips of 5.5 months each between January and December 2005,

1. Do you think I broke the continuous residency requirements?
2. Will it postpone my due date to apply for citizenship?