SSN for child (4 years old) of LPR (application issues)

A

abumiqdad

Member
Hi.

I have some questions here regarding SSN for my child. My child and myself are LPR/GC holder - via Diversity Visa (he is my derivative DV3).

I already have a SSN assigned to me when I was in the USA a long time ago.

Questions:
1. When i filed my tax, for dependents, i am required to write the name and the SSN of my child. Is the section (SSN) mandatory if one were to enter his/her children as dependents?

2. I paid the closest SSA office a visit today (1.5 hours of driving unfortunately), and wanted to apply SSN for my child. I was told by the officer that if my child/or myself is a US Citizen, they will do it, but not for LPRs. Is this correct?

3. The officer also told me that I need to contact IRS to get a tax identification for my child (to put it in my tax return form). Is this correct too?

4. I did ask, what differs between my own status as LPR and my child? She said that i will be working, so i can get SSN issued for me, but my child won't be working - hence SSA wont issue him SSN. Is this correct as well?

Any links to the guidelines of SSA or IRS would be of help too.
 
2-4 are nonsense. We got SSN cards sent automatically for our minor children along with ours when we all got green cards. Our youngest was 5 years old when we got our green cards and SSNs.
Did you fill in a DS260 for your child and tick the SSN required box?
Anyway seems like you need to go back to the SSA office and find someone who knows what they’re talking about there!
 
I did tick that bit when i filled out my DS260. Unfortunately SSA had not issued my child a SSN (emailed the service center and that was the reply).

I wanted to argue with the officer but i have nothing to back up my claim that my child, a GC holder as well, is entitled for SSN (and not ITIN issued by IRS). And the officer was adamant that she is correct. It was not getting anywhere so i am currently trying to call SSA helpline (1 hour wait time now) to confirm this issue - still waiting on the phone as of now.

Thank you for the link. If only it explicitly state that it is valid of children too.. (her argument was that i needed it to work, but my child wont work), then i would bring it to her on my next visit.

I feel she is not familiar with LPR issues - she wanted to deny my request for replacement SSN card because i did not present her I-551 form (a form that I have even seen it myself!). That or, my physical GC (but i lost mine).

I showed here my Diversity Visa MRIV with entry stamp (which is still valid), and on top of that, i have I 551 stamp from my recent INFOPASS appointment - initially she rejected those as my proof of being LPR.

Her argument : you requested for a replacement of GC, which means you will have a duplicate GC, and it should get to you within weeks. I told her that is not the case, replacement GC will take up to 1 year, even the USCIS officer at my INFOPASS appointment said that. I repeatedly told her i had lost mine hence i had to request for a replacement.

Only after that she took my passport and asked someone there whether the stamp for I 551 on my passport would be acceptable. Sigh...
 
SSA agent told me to call DHS , and gave me the number 1-800-375-5283 . It was also a bit odd that the SSA agent asked me "Why i am in the USA, for studying? Working?" even after i told her i have a GC, and i am a LPR. Then i answered "I am living here in the USA permanently". I asked her are there differences between the type of GC (from my understanding, once you have a GC, you have a GC, regardless of how you got it). She said, that is something DHS would be able to answer.

Well, will give DHS a call now.
 
USCIS officer that i called confirmed that my child is entitled to get SSN issued but he said to call back tomorrow to get to Tier 2, that maybe can provide some more details/proof regarding this.
 
abumiqdad said:
Thank you for the link. If only it explicitly state that it is valid of children too.. (her argument was that i needed it to work, but my child wont work), then i would bring it to her on my next visit.

....

I showed here my Diversity Visa MRIV with entry stamp (which is still valid), and on top of that, i have I 551 stamp from my recent INFOPASS appointment - initially she rejected those as my proof of being LPR.



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It explicitly states you need it to be put as a dependent on a tax return, which is what you wanted it for.

Did you show her the child’s green card? Or just your I551 stamp?

You clearly had the misfortune of meeting someone who doesn’t know their stuff. Next time suggest you insist on a supervisor if you get the same person.
 
SusieQQQ said:
It explicitly states you need it to be put as a dependent on a tax return, which is what you wanted it for.

Did you show her the child’s green card? Or just your I551 stamp?

You clearly had the misfortune of meeting someone who doesn’t know their stuff. Next time suggest you insist on a supervisor if you get the same person.
Click to expand...


I already told her that i needed the SSN to fill out the fields in my tax return from . Her answer? "Contact IRS and request for tax identification number". It was frustrating.

I showed to her both of our I-551 stamp (my son has his missing too). I did ask, if i brought in my child's GC, once we receive it, would then my child be assigned SSN? She said "No".

Yeah i should have asked for a different officer or supervisor - considering that she initially declined to accept my I551 stamp as proof of my LPR status, and insisted on I 551 FORM, (a physical form).

What a luck.
 
First, it is not true in general that someone needs an SSN to file taxes or be listed as dependent on taxes. Many people who do not qualify for SSNs file taxes or are listed as dependents all the time (e.g. H4 spouses mostly cannot work and thus cannot get an SSN, but file taxes jointly with their H1b spouses; people who are working illegally who have income must file taxes, etc.) -- they apply for ITINs.

However, someone who has or is eligible for an SSN is not allowed to apply for an ITIN. As an LPR, your child is eligible for an SSN, and thus must get an SSN to file taxes or be listed as a dependent on taxes.

I am not sure what you mean by "my son has his missing too". What is missing? Your son's immigrant visa is missing? or what?

Your son's LPR status is independent of yours. Showing your own proof of permanent residency is irrelevant. Your son has his own separate proof of permanent residency. Did your son get permanent residency through Adjustment of Status in the US or Consular Processing for an immigrant visa abroad? If the latter, he has his own immigrant visa, and when it was stamped upon entry to the US, it serves as an I-551 valid for 1 year from the date of entry.
 
Thank you newacct!

My child's physical green card is missing, same as mine (it was MIA before we even see it) - so we had to get it replaced using I-90, and it should be produced towards the end of next year.

For now, i already got I-551 stamp in our passport from INFOPASS appointment for both of us that should be valid till next year. We still have our IV with entry stamp (and that is also still valid as it has not been 1 year since we activated our LPR status).

I brought my child's passport along as proof of his LPR status but as stated above, the officer still say that "We do not issue SSN for child even if he is a GC holder - unless his citizenship status change to USC" . And she asked me to contact IRS to get ITIN for my child. She did not even look my my child's documents, (passport and i brought along his Birth Cert). Funny thing is that, she said the I 551 stamp is temporary - and it is not somewhat permanent (i think she wanted to say that my status as LPR is not yet permanent). I bet she had never processed LPR's issues recently.

I will go again to the office today as i managed to contact someone from one of the offices in the state i am in, and he agreed that the officers was wrong. Once I am there, I will ask for manager if the same officer want to refuse my childs application, OR if they still want to deny my application, request for a refusal letter. The officer i called today also said that he will try to contact his manager, so that his manager can call the manager of the office i went to yesterday to inform about this issue.



newacct said:
First, it is not true in general that someone needs an SSN to file taxes or be listed as dependent on taxes. Many people who do not qualify for SSNs file taxes or are listed as dependents all the time (e.g. H4 spouses mostly cannot work and thus cannot get an SSN, but file taxes jointly with their H1b spouses; people who are working illegally who have income must file taxes, etc.) -- they apply for ITINs.

However, someone who has or is eligible for an SSN is not allowed to apply for an ITIN. As an LPR, your child is eligible for an SSN, and thus must get an SSN to file taxes or be listed as a dependent on taxes.

I am not sure what you mean by "my son has his missing too". What is missing? Your son's immigrant visa is missing? or what?

Your son's LPR status is independent of yours. Showing your own proof of permanent residency is irrelevant. Your son has his own separate proof of permanent residency. Did your son get permanent residency through Adjustment of Status in the US or Consular Processing for an immigrant visa abroad? If the latter, he has his own immigrant visa, and when it was stamped upon entry to the US, it serves as an I-551 valid for 1 year from the date of entry.
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Alright, some updates (summarizing the points above too):

The same day after returning from the SSA office, i called SSA general help line 1 (800) 772-1213 . Had to wait 1 hour 5 minutes before i got connected to a live agent (SSN used to have the option for the system to give a call back, but not sure what happened now - so i had to wait on the line for the whole duration of the wait time). That agent WAS NOT HELPFUL AT ALL.


It went a bit like this:

Me: "Hi. I want to ask about the policy of SSA issuing SSN to Lawful Permanent Resident/Green Card Holder. I went to a SSA office today trying to apply for my child's SSN, he is also a GC holder. I was told that because my child wont be working, he should not be given SSN, and i should contact IRS to get ITIN issued. Is this the policy of SSA?"

SSA Helpline: "Can you tell me your status here?"

Me: "I have a green card"

SSA Helpline: "Yes, but what are you doing here? Are you studying? Working?"

Me: (already feeling weird by the question) "Well i am a lawful permanent resident, I have a green card and i do not think it matters what I am here for"

SSA Helpline: "I need to know what are you doing here?"

Me: (getting frustrated) "I am here to live permanently in the USA. Same with my child"

SSA Helpline: "Okay, why did you sound hesitant to answer the question? Regarding your child SSN, you need to contact DHS, as DHS would know what visa you are on as they were the one that deals with it, and you can ask DHS to provide letters/or details for you to bring to SSA office to apply for your child's SSN"

Me: "I do not understand, i thought having green card, regardless of the way you get it, via work, marriage or diversity visa, they are the same green card. Are there differences between the green cards?"

SSA Helpline: "That is something that DHS should answer. Do you want their number? "

She then proceeded to give me USCIS general helpline number. and the call was ended shortly after. Sigh...



Still yesterday morning, I managed to call an officer from a different SSA office in the same state that I am in (the office is waaaay further than the 1.5 hours of driving for the initial SSA office i went to).

He was very helpful after i explained my issue - he said the officer was wrong, and my child should have been issued a SSN. He also said that if the officer wanted to refuse my application, i should ask for a formal refusal letter. And that I should also ask to speak to the manager. He asked me to provide some details of my child over the phone, and he verified that he can see my child's details and status on his system. So he said it should be the same for any SSA office.

I told him if there were things he can do from his end, maybe speak to the manager at the office i went to. He said he can try asking his manager to give the manager of the office a call about this matter - so that the officer would know better how to handle the issue.

With that info, knowing that I was right all along, I drove back for 1.5 hour++ to the same office, and fortunately, a different officer was manning the counter (there was only 1 counter available/opened both days i went there). The new officers took my documents, looked at the I 551 stamp from INFOPASS, excused herself as she wanted to verify that document, came back and then processed my son's SSN! As simple as that!

It was very unfortunate that i encountered an officer that had no idea what she was dealing with, and also a helpline agent that had no idea of the same issue. Time and energy wasted - but i know better now. I hope i wont have to deal with these kinds of officers again.
 
The only reason i can think of for all this runaround is that actually all green cards are not the same, as some are conditional (CR1 and EB5) not permanent, but happy you finally managed to get it sorted out!
 
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