Should I even bother??

P

Pacopilotmx

Registered Users (C)
So I am thinking of applying for citizenship but have come upon a huge stump. I do not know how much in detail USIC reviews ones adjustment of status of application and this is where I may end up in trouble. I am starting to believe that perhaps I was approved for my green card by mistake or by a huge overlook by the interviewing officer.

I was brought to the U.S. on tourist visa by my parents. I was 9 at the time and the year was 1988, I believe. When I turned 21 and finished my higher education it became evident that I was not going to amount to anything while being out of status, so I decided to venture out to my home country on my own. I never adjusted to life at my homeland and missed my family very much so I decided to try to come back to the States. My first attempt was at the U.S embassy as I tried to apply for a student visa and was actually going to persue another degree. This didn't go too well as the visa application asked many questions that i could just not lie about. Nonetheless I was denied a student visa and was actually yelled at by the consular officer, she actually went kind of nuts and told me that i broke the law by overstaying my visa. "Sorry lady but I was a minor" didn't go too well with her.

Couple of months after that experience I remembered that I actually had a valid tourist visa stamped on my old passport. Yes one of those old no expiration date, funky looking stamps. I read on the embassy webpage that those visas could be use for one last entrance. So I did just that. I got an airline ticket and headed back to the States. I should mention this is post 9/11. Getting on the plane was an obstacle to overcome. I had to go through many supervisors to validate my visas since everyone else had one of those nifty laser visas. Mine was very cheap and out of date looking. Eventually I made it on board and was bound Miami. The immigration officer was another experience and just looked at my visa with the "are you serious look?". He ddin't give me much hassle and just old me to get a new visa when I got home.

I ended up overstaying but this time I got married to an old love. She petitoned me and went through the I-130 and I-485 process. This is another messy story which I will post on another thread. Bottom line! I know the I-485 asks many questions and from that the IO can determine where you have lived, visas, work history etc. I know for a fact the IO knew i had lived all my life here and that I went back to my home country and came back and I still got approved for a green card. How is this? Recently i have been reading on the 3/10 year ban. Which I think should have probably been applied to me. During the whole adjustment of status process i never even knew about this. Five years later, my question is. Should I bother to even apply for citizenship? Was I just lucky? or maybe unlucky? Some great insight would be appreciated.
 
Marrying a USC has privileges and it is possible to adjust even with an overstay. If you're concerned about anything else, make sure you apply after the 5 year anniversary of your green card (not 90 days early). Apparently after 5 yrs the GC is hard to revoke (perhaps someone with more knowledge about this will also post to this thread)
 
Pacopilotmx said:
"Sorry lady but I was a minor" didn't go too well with her.
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You left when you were 21. That's 3 years of being an adult. If you want to use the "I was a minor" excuse, you should have left promptly after your 18th birthday.

I know for a fact the IO knew i had lived all my life here and that I went back to my home country and came back and I still got approved for a green card. How is this? Recently i have been reading on the 3/10 year ban. Which I think should have probably been applied to me. During the whole adjustment of status process i never even knew about this. Five years later, my question is. Should I bother to even apply for citizenship? Was I just lucky? or maybe unlucky? Some great insight would be appreciated.
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You got lucky. They should have applied the 10 year ban to you. Marrying a USC does not exempt you from the 10 year ban unless you get a waiver, which you apparently didn't.

If you apply for citizenship and they dive into the details of your pre-GC history, you're probably going to get denied because you never should have gotten the green card in the first place. However, once it is 5 years after the GC has been granted, and they realize it was granted by mistake, they cannot revoke your green card on the basis of information they already had before granting the GC, unless they have initiated the revocation process before the 5-year mark. In your case, I'm quite sure the court will agree that they had information about your original overstay, because your visa was rejected on that basis and you provided some of that information for the I-485 process. So the risk of losing your GC is very very low.
 
Jackolantern said:
You left when you were 21. That's 3 years of being an adult. If you want to use the "I was a minor" excuse, you should have left promptly after your 18th birthday.


You got lucky. They should have applied the 10 year ban to you. Marrying a USC does not exempt you from the 10 year ban unless you get a waiver, which you apparently didn't.

If you apply for citizenship and they dive into the details of your pre-GC history, you're probably going to get denied because you never should have gotten the green card in the first place. However, once it is 5 years after the GC has been granted, and they realize it was granted by mistake, they cannot revoke your green card on the basis of information they already had before granting the GC, unless they have initiated the revocation process before the 5-year mark. In your case, I'm quite sure the court will agree that they had information about your original overstay, because your visa was rejected on that basis and you provided some of that information for the I-485 process. So the risk of losing your GC is very very low.
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There is a risk...From OP posting, it is not clear if OP fully disclosed all prior overstays/etc during GC process. If OP disclosed everything, then I agree the risk is very low, after GC reaches 5 year accord. However, if there was a fraud (not disclosing material facts...during I-485/other immigration applications), there is no limitation on USCIS side to revoke GC/other immigration benefits due to the fraud.
 
Jackolantern said:
You got lucky. They should have applied the 10 year ban to you. Marrying a USC does not exempt you from the 10 year ban unless you get a waiver, which you apparently didn't.
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So they should / could have applied the 10 year ban. Plus they have 5 years from the date of GC to start revocation proceedings.

Could he simply not wait out 10 years, instead of the 5 recommended so that the ban duration is also past? Or does the 10 year run differently - from the date of ban rather than the date of the "act"?
 
sanjoseaug20 said:
So they should / could have applied the 10 year ban. Plus they have 5 years from the date of GC to start revocation proceedings.

Could he simply not wait out 10 years, instead of the 5 recommended so that the ban duration is also past? Or does the 10 year run differently - from the date of ban rather than the date of the "act"?
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The 10 year ban requires spending at least 10 years outside the US to regain eligibility for a nonimmigrant visa or green card. Waiting 10 years now would be useless, because the 10-year wait is to be done outside the US.
 
OP,

The problem that you have is that you didn't immediately leave after turning 18th, which would have saved you from USCIS wrath. The citizenship app is usually scrutinized beyond your colon, so you can be rest assured that all your immigration record will be under the microscope. The bar is served outside the US, can you imagine a convicted serial killer serving time in his neighborhood? I mean he killed people in his neighborhood, so he might be tempted to kill away. So with the bar from USCIS, served outside the US. You GC can be revoked anything because it has blatant fraud written on it back, except you can't see it. You obtained your greencard through fraud, of which it might come to bite you in the behind. Leave this USC for a while, hope that certain things change or there's a blanket acquittal of all offenders like yourself. I fear applying will ruin your life forever..
 
OP, You will be asked whether you have ever lied to obtain an immigration benefit (this includes cooking up a story about people being on their deathbeds to try to get a visa, or telling the Immigraiton Officer at the POE that you were here only for a 'few' weeks knowing full well that you weren't going back). If your answer to that is a 'YES', drop the USC thing and enjoy your green card.

Try not to travel too much out of the country as I remember hearing some horror stories on the news a few years ago of some people not being allowed back into the US after being residents for several years because USCIS invoked the 3/10 year bans for their prior OOS (Out Of Status) time.
 
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I disclosed everything on my I-485 and biographic application. Had also disclosed all information at the embassy when i was applying for a stusdent visa, they took biometrics as well. So they should have had all my history at the AOS. I think I had a very passive and understanding IO maybe willing to overlook things.
 
Pacopilotmx said:
I disclosed everything on my I-485 and biographic application. Had also disclosed all information at the embassy when i was applying for a stusdent visa, they took biometrics as well. So they should have had all my history at the AOS. I think I had a very passive and understanding IO maybe willing to overlook things.
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If you think things were already taken care of at the time youg ot teh GC, I suggest you go ahead to apply for your citizenship to get it over
with. It is not a good ideal to let this issue bug you for the rest of your life. You have to assume your GC is in good standing, otherwise
what is the point of living in the USA with a bogus green card?
 
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WBH said:
If you think things were already taken care of at the time youg ot teh GC, I suggest you go ahead to apply for your citizenship to get it over
with. It is not a good ideal to let this issue bug you for the rest of your life. You have to assume your GC is in good standing, otherwise
what is the point of living in the USA with a bogus green card?
Click to expand...

Very good point, perhaps if i were single and no kids I would be willing to jump into the fire without hesitation. Not the case here, but totally understand your point about letting issues bug me fo the rest of my life.
 
GungaDin said:
Try not to travel too much out of the country as I remember hearing some horror stories on the news a few years ago of some people not being allowed back into the US after being residents for several years because USCIS invoked the 3/10 year bans for their prior OOS (Out Of Status) time.
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Thanks for the insight. I never came across this issue before. Very interesting will have to investigate this.
 
"Nonetheless I was denied a student visa and was actually yelled at by the consular officer, she actually went kind of nuts and told me that i broke the law by overstaying my visa. "Sorry lady but I was a minor" didn't go too well with her. Couple of months after that experience I remembered that I actually had a valid tourist visa stamped on my old passport. Yes one of those old no expiration date, funky looking stamps. I read on the embassy webpage that those visas could be use for one last entrance. So I did just that. I got an airline ticket and headed back to the States. I should mention this is post 9/11. Getting on the plane was an obstacle to overcome. I had to go through many supervisors to validate my visas since everyone else had one of those nifty laser visas. Mine was very cheap and out of date looking. Eventually I made it on board and was bound Miami. The immigration officer was another experience and just looked at my visa with the "are you serious look?". He ddin't give me much hassle and just old me to get a new visa when I got home."

The OP, the above is the account you provided. The US Embassy denied you a visa after thoroughly investigating your application. You then decided to use the old visa in the old passport, because you weren't going to be issued a laser visa, so ou used an old visa so that you can return to the US. The facts which are indisputable are that you were an overstay as a minor, returned to your home country after turning 21, tried to get a legal visa, but were denied. I am curious what it is that you disclosed which to USCIS which exenorate you from the potential that your GC was procured through fraudalent means. I agree with one of the posters, just apply for citizenship and see if you will be granted citizenship or put through the frying pan by USCIS. Regardless, just make a decision which you can live with and make you and your family happy.
 
Hey OP

I have a friend that overstayed his student visa by 10 years, never left the US, got married here at 24, went throught the whole the process and is now a USC. He used a lawyer to get the first GC and ajust his status, then for the USC he applied by himself. His younger brother who overstayed his visa by 12 years is now doing the same thing. So it is possible, it's just up to you.
 
Pacopilotmx said:
Very good point, perhaps if i were single and no kids I would be willing to jump into the fire without hesitation. Not the case here, but totally understand your point about letting issues bug me fo the rest of my life.
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You will not get a definiton answer here. If you are conservative, you can avoid citizenship forever. But once in such shoes, one should
know that being a PR carry a risk of one day losing PR anyway.

You need to make a decision: to file or not to file, that is the question. If you decide not to file, then you better have a strong mentality
to forget about this rather than thinking about it over and over forever, which make your life totally unenjoyable. If that is the case, then
you better file to get it over with.

You won't get a defnition answer here. You won't get a defnition answer from a lawers either. If you consult several lawyers, they
will give you conflciting opinion too. The only answer that is meanfuling can be from USCIS and you cna only get it
if you file
 
stroojie said:
Hey OP

I have a friend that overstayed his student visa by 10 years, never left the US, got married here at 24, went throught the whole the process and is now a USC. He used a lawyer to get the first GC and ajust his status, then for the USC he applied by himself. His younger brother who overstayed his visa by 12 years is now doing the same thing. So it is possible, it's just up to you.
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Those are very different situations. The 3-year/10-year ban doesn't take effect unless you leave the US. The OP left the US at 21 after some years of overstay, whereas the people in your example didn't.
 
WBH said:
You will not get a definiton answer here. If you are conservative, you can avoid citizenship forever. But once in such shoes, one should
know that being a PR carry a risk of one day losing PR anyway.
Click to expand...
I don't think the GC is jeopardy, provided that he applies after the 5-year GC anniversary. There is a lot of case law behind USCIS inability to revoke the GC based on information they already had prior to the GC approval, if they have not initiated the revocation process before the 5-year GC anniversary.

Maybe the individual GC adjudicator did not know about the original overstay, but INS/USCIS/CBP/DOS as a whole knew about it, because the student visa was refused on that basis.
 
Thank you everyone for your insight. I thought this was a different type of case compared to what other topics have been posted on here. I just wanted to share my case and hope that I was able to juggle your minds a little. I will post in the future again and hope to have answer to this scenario.

Jackolantern said:
Maybe the individual GC adjudicator did not know about the original overstay, but INS/USCIS/CBP/DOS as a whole knew about it, because the student visa was refused on that basis.
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I think he knew. During the interview he asked questions about my school days and he even knew the names of institutions I had attended. I don't know where he got all that information from but he had it.
 
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