Question on Job Change

S

Sun07

Registered Users (C)
I know once your I-140 is approved and 180 days have lasped, it's okay to change the job under the new law.

My question is if you change the job at that point what kind of paperwork/assistance one might need from the company you change to? This is a very big company and my experience says that in bigger companies it's very difficult to get any work done, let alone get visibility on whats going on with your application.

So does one need to send any new Forms to USCIS after you change jobs? I know you would of course send change of address and perhaps new letter of offer and current responsibilities. Any other documents you need while your I-485 is under process? from this new company?

Thanks a lot!

Sun07
 
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i wouldnot inform anything other than address change. it is not required or specified by law to do so.
i would be ready with documents if required otherwise just take it easy and change job:rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Question on Job Change

Originally posted by tombaan
it is not required or specified by law to do so.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Tombaan, dear friend: I am still not convinced on this aspect, because, with more and more transfers occuring to the local-offices, there is every chance that one may be questioned on the clause of "fraud" or "withholding of information." Of course you are 100% right, regarding there is no rule that mandates dissemination of such information. However, in an interview, if they demand such info, we can provide it. However, what happens, if they construe that to be an attempt to defraud INS? In that case, would they not ask, "Why was this not informed?" As INS regulations involve significant amount of interpretation, how to prove that not informing INS was not an attempt to defraud?? :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
In my case I changed my job 2 years after my 485 ND. Luckily my new employer is in the same area, so I didn't have to change my address. It's already been 1 year since I changed my job. Is it appropriate to inform INS now about my job change?


ND June 2001
RD July 2001
 
P

the intention to defraud is when you are lying or hiding facts required by the law to submit
i have seen some cases who have been called for interview and that point of time they gave them the new employement letter. My case i have not informed.....so ;)
 
tombaan

I think I am still not able to convey my dilemma across. Please allow me to try. I agree, again, with you 100%. However, as you had mentioned in those cases where the job-change was notified during the interview, the officer accepted it. Fine, great!! However, due to the changing "culture" of saying "No," such a failure to intimate the change of job, can be construed by an officer to be a wanton failure on the part of the applicant to suppress the information. What I am talking may be practical or even hypothetical. We will not know, unless, one day somebody in this forum precisely undergoes this situation and shares it. So, with this background, my question is, why not inform INS, after getting a new job with AC-21? Who knows, it may even trigger a faster approval by means of a RFE or an immediate transfer to the local-office, etc.? I am just brain-storming to see the pros and cons of intimating INS about job-change, especially, after many folks are raising this question again and again.
 
I agree with poongunranar on this issue. The following is taken from the AC21 August memo. The keyword here is expected . Who knows how an immigration officer will interpret it during an interview. My take on this is, it's better to be safe than sorry. Unless there are some issues with your new job (like the pay is less or it's not similar to your previous job), I would inform INS.


"it is expected that the alien will have submitted evidence to
the office having jurisdiction over the pending Form I-485 that the new offer of employment is in the same or similar occupational classification as the offer of employment for which the
petition was filed. "
 
Fabulous observation Dinnu

Thanks a lot, friend. That captures my own dilemma. The word to be taken cognizance of is: "expected." If the Officer presses on this count, what will the interviewee's answer be? "Huh....I thought I am not supposed to....," for which the Officer can say, "But, you are expected to..."

Can you see where this fingerpointing can lead to? Can you see who is at the receiving-end of such a puritanical interpretation of a simple memo? That is precisely why I am advocating notifying the INS as soon as a job-shift had occured. Even though as per law AR-11 is all that is needed to notify an address change, these days, the Service Centers are asking us to give it in writing to the respective Service Centers or the Local-Office about the address change, even though the clause is " expected to," but in case of address change, one should read that as " required to."

For those folks who may not have notified about the job-change, well after a year or so, I think that should be OK. Even then, notifying about the job-change should not hurt. However, for those who may have had their job-change, pretty recently, I think, I would advise that they intimate INS about the same.

Again, this is merely my obiter...a personal opinion. You can confer with your attorneys or use your discretion in this issue. My two cents.
 
well

i can see from wheer you are coming. I did speak to my attorney and her opinion was that it is good to do so but not madatory. ac21 doesnot mention anything about intimation whenever u change a job. If you ask lawyers they would want you to do it cause it means more money for drafting new letter and what not.
As for address change there is aform out there called AR11 but do we have one for job change? precisely that i feel makes it voluntary and not madatory:(
 
tombaan ( AR 11 )

Apart from AR-11 (which is definitely mandatory), nowadays the unwritten rule is that the local office or the Service Center needs to be notified either via letter or by telephone call about the address change. Now, this notification is not mandated, but expected, somewhat similar to what they say about job-change. What I was trying to imply was, for the address-change, even though this kind of notifying is not mandatory (only AR-11 is mandatory), the local offices and Service Centers are warning about adverse decisions if those centers are not notified about the address change. Who the heck knows man...what is mandated/expected/required and all the crap. As in my mother-tongue, they used to say, "If you don the mantle of a dog, you should bark." We have applied for I-485 and we need to do whatever it takes, just that the tables are not turned towards us.
 
tombaan

You bet, Sire. I received an explicit notice from the local office, all typed in CAPS, with the following wording quote-on-quote REMEMBER: IF YOU CHANGE YOUR ADDRESS, NOTIFY THIS OFFICE IN WRITING. When it was in TSC, I was explicitly asked to provide my recent address in writing or by orally calling the 1-800 NUMBER and those agents typed in my address to the TSC folks as I dictated in verbatim.

So, irrespective of whether your case is pending at Service Center or Local Office, INS does expect you to file an informal change-of-address in writing, to that particular office, irrespective of filing AR-11.

You are right. Until after 9-11, many folks didn't know that AR-11 even existed, or even to those folks who knew, didn't know that it was an offense to have not filed AR-11. Likewise, this unwritten rule from the local-office/Service-Center does exist and the pity is not even many attorneys-at-law know about it. Shame!

So, to recapitulate: If you have a change of address, do the following:

  1. File AR-11
  2. Write an informal letter and send it to TSC.
  3. If your case is pending with the local-office, or you would have gotten your interim EAD, etc., at the local-office, file a change-of-address at the local-office as well. The informal guidelines about notifying the local-office for address-change can be found in the USCIS website itself.
    [/list=1]

    Hope this helps. :)
 
this is crap

once you intimate a central office it is their job to go ahead inform the rest..anyway beggars cannot have choices:confused: :eek:
 
Q. How does one prove that INS was notified ? ( I mean about the job change? ) Even if you send it via fedex , certified mail etc the "contents" of the mail are never ack by TSC ?.

If INS does complain one can argue that it was sent. I think TSC would have no means to justify that the calim was right or wrong?

poongunranar, since U seem to have more "LEGAL" experience could you elaborate on this.

So lets turn the Q. the other way : "Q. How does INS prove that you did not send the AC21 ?"
 
It is absolutely not necessary to get an acknowledgement from INS. I am told that they do acknowledge CHANGE-OF-ADDRESS notifications. In all my 3 to 4 address changes, I have got an acknowledgement only from my local-office, and that too only once. So, there is absolutely no way to prove that, unless INS sends an acknowledgement letter.

Now, INS is not required by law to prove that you did not send the AC21. Have you heard the philosophy of reductio ad absurdum?. It is a common philosophy that is accepted in part in the Legal as well as concretely in the Mathematical world. It is nothing but a disproof of a proposition by showing that it leads to absurd or untenable conclusions.

Kindly allow me to explain:

You can only do this: Type a letter notifying about the new job and all other pertinent details and don't forget to take copies of that letter. Post it under CERTIFIED POSTING WITH ACKNOWLEDGEMENT and send it in USPS. Now, you have a solid proof to show that you did mail "something" to INS under certified-mail. When INS says, you didn't, you can show this as a proof that you did. Now, if INS argues, that such a communication was never received, you are not going to be affected in anyway, because "to notify" is what is expected of you. Not to physically make sure that "notification was taken note of by INS." Now, INS can say, what you did send was not AC-21. That argument would be untenable, precisely under the grounds of reductio ad absurdum, because, if it was not the AC-21, then what was it -- a fake letter, a love-letter, or what? In that case, a recourse to preponderance of evidence OR the benefit of doubt will be granted unto you.

On the contrary, if there is an interview involved and the officer grills you as to the "motives" for not notifying the INS about AC-21, what would you say to defend the same? Please note that in any legal agency, a recourse to "ignorance of law/statutes," can never justify the act of omission or commission. So you just cannot say, "I didn't know."

Hey, as I had clearly written earlier. We are merely brain-storming here. If any of you were lost in all this, let me recapitulate again. There is no explicit rule regarding notifying INS about job-change. Accepted. However, in the evolving scenarios, it doesn't hurt to notify INS about the job-change. Rather, in our discussions, we are able to see, how there may be situations, when we may be put in a fix by INS if we didn't notify them about the job-change. Hence the discussions to view the pros-and-cons. For our arguments, we are trying to draw a parallel regarding another unwritten rule to notify the Service-Center/Local-Office about address change.

Cool!
 
It is in your own interest to supply your address change to the service center because otherwise they never get your latest address. Which is kind of necessary if they send information directly to you.

It causes all sorts of problems for both parties if you do not keep them updated.
 
Thanks!

This is nice... the indepth discussion triggered off from my one simple question. Very informative and I understand this quite well I think. Thank you all.

OK just double checking one last time. If you notice my question (first message in the thread), I was more concerned with what assistance one might need from this "new company"? I gather, basically none (?)

Change of address, letter informing new job and all can be mailed by the applicant, right?

So in a nutshell, we dont need to worry about getting any help or documents from this new company "at all" to get a Green Card!

Thanks again!
 
Not quite true.

There is no specific form or format for AC21. At its most basic you will have to supply an EVL from you new sponsor stating they are offering future employment with a list of job responsibilities, salary and preferably O-NET or DOT code.

My attorney also wants to send financial documents about the company to prove proof of ability to pay, i.e. treating is the same as an original I-140.

But you can just send the basics and see if they need the rest in an RFE.
 
poongunranar, poongunranar, dinnu and other great knowledgable feloow forum members

I have a situation , kindly advise.

My wife passed RN and got in to an agency for GC with two year contract. She was on H4. They applied 485/140/765 on 6/24/2003. Got 140/765 approved inb 10/2003.

Agency was trying for a job since 10/2003 and now they are not willing to employ my wife due to some contract issue with the hopital. Employer is willing to release the contarct after paying the Immigration expenses.
She never worked with the agency, who is her employer too and no pay stub.


My question :-

Can she use the AC21 to switch the employer ?

Kindly advice..
 
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