NIW-RFE from NSC

T

TM05

Registered Users (C)
Hi,
I am a regular reader of messages on this forum and have got some useful information here. To describe my siuation I had myself (non-lawyer assisted)applied for I-140 under NIW category Sept. 05 . This was concurrent filing.
My case was transferred from VSC-NSC around May 11, 2006
On Aug. 18th I recieved an RFE which was worded as follows:

“ Please submit additional documentary evidence which will indicate that you had, as of the priority date of this petition, a degree of influence on your field which distinguishes you from other scientists with comparable academic or professional qualifications. Such evidence might consist of, but is not necessarily limited to, copies of articles or excerpts from trade publications, journals, magazines, or other news media in which your research achievements are discussed, commented on, or otherwise specifically mentioned; or evidence of official recognition conferred or bestowed upon you by government bodies, professional organizations, or other such entities.”

I realize after going throught the forum that recently a number of people have got a similar RFE from NSC and I had a few specific questions.

1. Is this a easy RFE or hard one to deal with in your experience?
2. Is this something I can do by myself or would I need a lawyer at this stage (my original application was by myself)
3. I have a very good publication since I submitted my application. In fact it was already submitted when I sent my I-140 application. So would it be useful to cite that and the fact that its been cited a few times till now?
4. Does it matter that the citations you have are for your first author or second/ author papers? I have about 30 independent citations for my first author papers and 40 for a single paper in which I am second author.

I know this is a long message, but your replies will help other people as well, I hope. SO please do send in your feedback/ suggestions. I would greatly appreciate any help.

Thank you in advance.
 
“ Please submit additional documentary evidence which will indicate that you had, as of the priority date of this petition, a degree of influence on your field which distinguishes you from other scientists with comparable academic or professional qualifications. Such evidence might consist of, but is not necessarily limited to, copies of articles or excerpts from trade publications, journals, magazines, or other news media in which your research achievements are discussed, commented on, or otherwise specifically mentioned; or evidence of official recognition conferred or bestowed upon you by government bodies, professional organizations, or other such entities.”

I am sure you have submitted all possible papers etc during your original submission. Now you cannot submit the acheivements later to that. her eis the catch....based on the qual acheived earlier you might have got something like awards, grants, media coverage (internet is media), reprisnts, citations, memberships etc etc.........you shd make a good story out of these evidence as RFE.

I realize after going throught the forum that recently a number of people have got a similar RFE from NSC and I had a few specific questions.

1. Is this a easy RFE or hard one to deal with in your experience?

looks like routine RFE to me
2. Is this something I can do by myself or would I need a lawyer at this stage (my original application was by myself)

well not sure....lawyer will probably not take this case whole heartedly now.....but again it depends........

3. I have a very good publication since I submitted my application. In fact it was already submitted when I sent my I-140 application. So would it be useful to cite that and the fact that its been cited a few times till now?

skillfully ..to show impact and not to show it as later acheived evidence.

4. Does it matter that the citations you have are for your first author or second/ author papers? I have about 30 independent citations for my first author papers and 40 for a single paper in which I am second author.

doesn't matter ....play with english to show your contribution clearly in 2 nd author paper.
 
Thank you, eb1-doc and NIW-Nov.04 for your replies.
Your feedback is going to be very useful for me in drafting my response and given my situation (publications/ citations) I feel resonably confident I can manage this RFE.
Just one query directed towards NIW-Nov4; I had written to many NIH scientists asking them for letters but have recieved polite but consistent denials because current rules prevent them from writing such letters. IN this scenario, how do I get letters from govt. people?

Thank you again.
 
Actually I have two NIH professors who have given reccos for me and they have been accepted well as my EB1-EA has been approved so dunno about what NIW-Nov04 is talking about. I did very important work for these guys and they were more than happy to give me strong reccos. I have had friends from Los Alamos Labs who have received reccos from their bosses. Yeah the letter was addressed to whome it may concern but The top of the letter said to USCIS and USDHS.....so go figure. The problem can be that most NIH people will not easily agree to be your referees unless they think you are that good or have worked with them because they know how much weight their letter carries. Besides what about senators writing letters of reccommendation? I have heard of that too.
 
Sorry if you felt slighted NIW-Nov04. First of all I did not mean the way you took it. I just meant I had no idea what you meant. :). I read the article and yeah you are right but i see that the letter is mainly addressed to NIH directors, HR and Administrative people.....not the scientists...(confused?).

HAVING SAID THAT - let me state my point of view on what transpired:

1. You had said federal workers cannot ask other federal workers for help....not that scientists in NIH cannot specifically write letters to USCIS. Because if the first statement is right then being a scientist never matters. Senators are by the way Federal Employees.

2. Second when anybody writes a reccommendation letter for you he is not asking for "help" from the USCIS for you rather he is stating that in his expert opinion he feels you are an extraordinary person in that field to be eligible for an NIW. Thats all. The rest is upto the USCIS inspector to deem fit to interpret the said facts. So the "Help" theory is not exactly true. Much like I would depose in medico-legal case for a defendent as a medical expert in the field. I am not asking to help the guy just stating facts....if those facts "help" him that is purely incidental. This does not remove the fact of what the memo in your link says...but its a point of view.

3. As far as I know NIH scientists cannot have a different code of "ETHICS" than other scientists in the world. "ETHICS" are independent of work place just like those of a doctor. So its not because of scientific ethics....its because of government ethics.

3. I have worked with NIH people and in NIH for many sabbaticals (though I was never officially employed by them). Never have I heard from any NIH scientist (oh and by the way I work with people who are pretty high ranking in the field of Medicine and Health some who are in the National Health Advisory Board) that this was ever a "legal" issue. So hence my confusion and inability to "warn" my referees about the illegality of the sitiuation. I hope they dont have problems or me...lol.

Anyways the bottomline is either you get them or not.....how you get them is not an issue....just beg borrow and steal.....reccos make all the damn difference in this race for the NIW.

PEACE AND GREEN CARDS TO ALL :cool:
 
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rules and regulations are ideally there to follow and lack of awareness makes anybody to misuse it or use it for benefit. I agree with NIW04 that NIH scientists, who previously use to give letters and not ideally suppose to give letters and still people ask and they do give letters but how far that fits rules only USCIS knows. Lack of awareness is also applicable to USCIS and even they forget that..............One of my colleauge's RFE suggested him to not to submit fed rep's letters.........another one got cordial denial for not providing letters by NIH guy.
 
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Govt employees-reccos

I seem to have started quite a heated debate on this topic!

I do feel too that NIH scientists could just give an unbiased expert opinion without actively furthering your cause (NIW or whatever), which should probably be the safest way out. That said, people have replied to me saying they would like to help me (and they have written many such letters before this rule was in effect, so they probably know that this could be done), but that now they are forbidden to do this. As NIW-Nov 04 says, I don't feel comfortable with pressing them after this.

NIW-Nov04..I am a post-doc in the field of biology-basic cancer-research, so if you can provide any tips on what government agency I could approach, that information might be useful to me.

Thank you all!
 
TM05 said:
I seem to have started quite a heated debate on this topic!

I do feel too that NIH scientists could just give an unbiased expert opinion without actively furthering your cause (NIW or whatever), which should probably be the safest way out. That said, people have replied to me saying they would like to help me (and they have written many such letters before this rule was in effect, so they probably know that this could be done), but that now they are forbidden to do this. As NIW-Nov 04 says, I don't feel comfortable with pressing them after this.

NIW-Nov04..I am a post-doc in the field of biology-basic cancer-research, so if you can provide any tips on what government agency I could approach, that information might be useful to me.

Thank you all!
Click to expand...

goverment agency ..........hmm you can get university guys letters they are semi-govermental.
 
some body needs help not arguments

TM05 said:
I seem to have started quite a heated debate on this topic!

I do feel too that NIH scientists could just give an unbiased expert opinion without actively furthering your cause (NIW or whatever), which should probably be the safest way out. That said, people have replied to me saying they would like to help me (and they have written many such letters before this rule was in effect, so they probably know that this could be done), but that now they are forbidden to do this. As NIW-Nov 04 says, I don't feel comfortable with pressing them after this.

NIW-Nov04..I am a post-doc in the field of biology-basic cancer-research, so if you can provide any tips on what government agency I could approach, that information might be useful to me.

Thank you all!
Click to expand...
I don't want to get into NIH, because I too have seen the Memo circulated.
Why can't you try, Center for Disease control and Prevention or related to that. Try some Military research institutes, also EPA, but not FDA. Try to get some letters from outside US too.
Good luck
 
I am a post-doc in biology too.....I had about 9 recco letters but only one from NIH. The rest of the letters I had were from private Institues but the likes of Yale, Harvard, Howard Huges...etc etc. You need not always have federal people to help your NIW application. Some private places are even more revered than say NIH. I never knew the people who gave me reccos from Yale and Harvard....hell one of the guys who gave me the recco from Harvard actually refused to gimme anything three times....I kinda stuck to pestering (felt like a beggar most times and bad)....yet I just kept the final goal in mind. Kya Karen Karna padta hai bhai. :)

So try looking up google.....search for the top five places in your field.....you must know the top people in your field by reading their papers....write to them saying you were impressed by their studies and you ahve been a follower of their work etc etc. Short list a few that you feel will be amenable to giving strong letters and some that will give a abridged recco. Then write to them....if they do not reply....write again (remember you are the one in need)....till someone gets back. I had some people reply to me after 1 month!!! Patience . It took me a total of 4 months to get the letters from my lawyer to the people and back again. But it was worth the time since if you look at a typical NIW application....the bulk of it is the reccos and your publications....that is what supports your entire case. So spend a lot of time on it.

Happy hunting...
 
Niw/rfe

Your RFE is totally the same as mine. please see my signature.

1. RFE: citations.

Because I just had 3 citations, i did not submit any citations at initial submition. 9 months later, I got the RFE and i had to submit 7 citations to USCIS. The 7 citations are based on my one paper and i am the second author in this paper. My the other paper does not have any citations, because of very recent publication. ( My background is not strong, and I just have two papers, published on good journals, Impact Factor: 8 and 15. )

2. RFE: recommendation letters.

Your need not to request for letters from the Government. The key point is that the referee is so big in the world. I got five independent letters for Chairs in top 10 universities in U.S.. Especially, three of them are Members of National Academy of Sciences (USA). I believe that is why my I-140 got approved 7 days after received my RFE.

Don't worry, I think your background is so stronger than mine. After carefully prepared, your case will be granted soon.

By the way, I did it all by my self without any assistance from lawyers.

Good luck


EB2, NIW, from VSC to NSC.
I-140 and I-485 RD: 09/27/2005,
I-140 and I-485 transfered from VSC to NSC on 5/11/06,
I-140 RFE sent on 6/1/06; I-140 RFE received by USCIS on 8/3/06
I-140 approved on 8/10/06,
I-485 pending.
 
government bodies, professional organizations, or other such entities.”

technically speaking you can go for govermental bodies

1. can be from other countries too
2. University position holders
3. Goverment related industrial heads

professional

1. body which awards you memebrships
3. Body wih industrial interest in ur work

or other such means anyone who can comments of ur NIW criteria.
 
Thanks for the information

Hi all,

This discussion has been extremely informative. puma2012NIW, it is encouraging to know you did the original application and RFE by yourself and got it approved, which I have decided to do too.

I am incorporating some of your suggestions and now approaching people who are highly acclaimed in the field and have prestigious affiliations. Hopefully this would work!

Will keep you posted.
Thanks again.
 
kulbikr said:
I am a post-doc in biology too.....I had about 9 recco letters but only one from NIH. The rest of the letters I had were from private Institues but the likes of Yale, Harvard, Howard Huges...etc etc. You need not always have federal people to help your NIW application. Some private places are even more revered than say NIH. I never knew the people who gave me reccos from Yale and Harvard....hell one of the guys who gave me the recco from Harvard actually refused to gimme anything three times....I kinda stuck to pestering (felt like a beggar most times and bad)....yet I just kept the final goal in mind. Kya Karen Karna padta hai bhai. :)
Click to expand...
kulbikr said:
Its mutual benefit society and ask for letters of support with dignity. If you think you guys are eligible for NIW or Eb1-OR people will also think that way and will surely help you!!!!
Click to expand...
 
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