NIW denial...

Joo77

Registered Users (C)
HI All,
I am new to this forum. I have been waiting for more than 2 years since filed NIW. Recently get denial from VSC. After I read some posting on this forum, I start to realize my lawyer (and myself) did not prepared the case well enough. I should read this forum back then. Now a little late.
Facing this, I have some questions need help.
(1) My wife is working with the EAD from our applicaitons (I140 and I485). So it will not be valid anymore. My question is if I appeal the I140(NIW), could we still get the EAD running during the appealing period?
(2) Can I submit another NIW or EA case immediately?

Thank you all for suggestions!
 
Sorry to hear

Please post the details like what is the reason for denial and also what is the area of your work etc..
 
My area is environmental chemistry. Have phd from a US state Univ. and now a postdoc in a top Univ.
Denial notice is same as many others - the THIRD prong not satisfied. Acturally, I did not know how to deal with this third prong. Do not know how to appeal. Have not read much even from this forum. Many believe appeal is not going to work anyway. Maybe we can disuss it more...

ND: 9/9/2002.
Nothing happen since then. Recently, Denial without RFE.
 
sorry to hear about your denial

You must be really upset after such a long wait. Well, as long as you still have your valid visa, you can submit another application. As to you wife, the EAD will also be on hold while you appeal your case. But, I am not a lawyer, and you should consult a lawyer about this.
 
Joo77 said:
HI All,
I am new to this forum. I have been waiting for more than 2 years since filed NIW. Recently get denial from VSC. After I read some posting on this forum, I start to realize my lawyer (and myself) did not prepared the case well enough. I should read this forum back then. Now a little late.
Facing this, I have some questions need help.
(1) My wife is working with the EAD from our applicaitons (I140 and I485). So it will not be valid anymore. My question is if I appeal the I140(NIW), could we still get the EAD running during the appealing period?
(2) Can I submit another NIW or EA case immediately?

Thank you all for suggestions!

It seems that an appeal for an NIW case might be worthwhile, unlike for the EB-1 OR cases. If you do decide to appeal, make sure that you adress the third prong USING EVIDENCE PRIOR TO YOUR FILING DATE. You might be able to get new letters in, but things like articles, patents etc. should have publised prior to your filing date. I would also recommend consulting a lawyer. Good luck!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I also had a NIW denial. You have 30 days (or 90? I don't remember) to appeal, and I did it through my lawyer (I doubted until last minute if this would be just waste of money) in Feb 2003. In July 2003 my appeal was granted and my I-140 NIW approved.

Now I am waiting what happens with my I-485 (submitted Sep 2003, at different center since I moved in May, I-140 was in CSC and I-485 in VSC).

Even when denied, still there is a hope!
 
Sorry, forgot to add: an appeal does NOT give you a valid status (you cannot just file an appeal and wait in US), if you want to stay in US after your I-140 is denied, you must have another reason (valid H-1) - this is what my lawyer told me.

If you do not have a valid visa (H-1), you may file another I-140 and another EAD, and theoretically keep filing and renewing your EAD's...just cost money...
but (again according to my lawyer) INS will figure out soon if you are filing just to stay legally in US and they will deny subsequent I-140's maybe faster..

I am not sure how ling you can stay in US if pending I-140 was all you had; maybe you can claim you did not check your mailbox for a while.. but anyway, if there is no grace period and you don't have a valid H-1 at the moment of getting your I-140 denial - then, immediately file change of non-immigrant (?) status to a B-1, and indicate the reason as to finish your stuff in US (sell car, etc.) and prepare to move back to your country, this may give you another 6 months of legal staying in US (including the time while your change-of-status application is pending.)
 
Thanks all replied here.
Especially to Compass, your story is encouraging. I still in H1b with my current employer. Compass, do you have any experience how to address the 3rd prong in NIW? What kinds of new documents/evidence needed to appeal? Thanks in advance.
 
compass said:
Sorry, forgot to add: an appeal does NOT give you a valid status (you cannot just file an appeal and wait in US), if you want to stay in US after your I-140 is denied, you must have another reason (valid H-1) - this is what my lawyer told me.

If you do not have a valid visa (H-1), you may file another I-140 and another EAD, and theoretically keep filing and renewing your EAD's...just cost money...
but (again according to my lawyer) INS will figure out soon if you are filing just to stay legally in US and they will deny subsequent I-140's maybe faster..

I am not sure how ling you can stay in US if pending I-140 was all you had; maybe you can claim you did not check your mailbox for a while.. but anyway, if there is no grace period and you don't have a valid H-1 at the moment of getting your I-140 denial - then, immediately file change of non-immigrant (?) status to a B-1, and indicate the reason as to finish your stuff in US (sell car, etc.) and prepare to move back to your country, this may give you another 6 months of legal staying in US (including the time while your change-of-status application is pending.)
BTW, you appealed to AAO, or ask service center to reopen your case?
 
Joo77,

I wonder if your lawyer specifically argued the three prongs: "Dr. Joo's work is in the area of the intrinsic merit because..., it is of national impact because... and national interest will be adversely affected if labor cert were to be required because..."? Could you please comment?

Thanks!

Shrek
 
I really don't remember now, what is "the 3rd prong in NIW". Appeal was written by my lawyer, and he submitted it to AAO. He told me (before submitting) that there is not much hope, and we should wait 6 mnths to 1 year, and this thing about appeal not giving my family a legal status in US while waiting, but in last few days I still decided to ask him to prepare it and to send to AAO. So I did (Feb 2003), and a month later both me and my spose (we worked for same company) lost the job. We both were on H-1B and so in danger of loosing status. I managed to find another job (while being on an official non-paid leave: we lost the job because our company run out of money but they agreed to give us a non-paid leave to keep the status), I trasnferred my H-1B, and my spose and daughter became H-4. My new job is at University and I was planning to file another I-140 from there since I did not have much hope for the appeal.

Then (July 2003) my appeal was approved, and I filed I-140 to VSC (my new location) in Sep 2003. My spouse and daughter both got EADs (however not working yet), but I am still working using my H-1B.

Joo77, please be careful to keep the status. It is great you still have your H-1 and never used EAD, you are fine. If your spose used her EAD - she maybe out of status when you got the denial. The moment she started using EAD, she lost her H-4 (or whatever she was having), and it DOES NOT come back automatically. You will need to file a petition for her to adjust (change?) her status from AOS applicant (? not sure) to H-4 based on your current H-1.

I am not a lawyer, please consult a lawyer, but I think there is no grace period and you should do it immediately after you got your denial. INS should receive your petition (for your spose to change back to H-4) not later than next day after you get your denial (if there is no grace period). Of course they understand the real life... but better file ASAP. Be honest and describe everything. Tell when you learned about denial, and that you immediately started acting to keep your family's status.

As to what documents needed for appeal, yes, according to my lawyer it is good to attach any new evidence. In my case, I did not have any new evidence, and my lawyer wrote something which I did not understand (I am a chemist and do not understand lawyer's terminology) and which meant that INS did not correctly interpter the evidence we already submitted. I can try to find a copy of the appeal, but I need some time. Send whatever new you have, any new publications, conference presentations, patents (even provisional), find citations of your work by others. You probably got something for the time you have been waiting.

Trying appeal does not hurt, and you still can try filing another I-140, like OR employment-based, I think you can have several I-140s pending at same time (maybe without I-485). When the one will be approved, revoke another one to avoid confusion, and then file I-485.

Good luck!
 
HI Shrek,
The thing is I have NEVER get a chance to read the petition letter written by the lawyer. He did not ask me to review the letter before submission. I am also too naive to not doubt him. Well, he is an immigration lawyer recommended by my friend. So I trust him totally. So from my lesson, I suggest friends in this forum better to review the petition letter by YOURSELF before the submission. But, I also heard some lawyer keep the petition letter as their own property, so will not release to customers. Is that true?
Anyway, nothing hurt to ask for it.
 
Compass, very appreciated for your informaton. It looks everyone in this process suffers/suffered a lot. Best wishes to you and your family. Congrats to you finally get it done!
 
I am not really sure about this:
"As to what documents needed for appeal, yes, according to my lawyer it is good to attach any new evidence. In my case, I did not have any new evidence, and my lawyer wrote something which I did not understand (I am a chemist and do not understand lawyer's terminology) and which meant that INS did not correctly interpter the evidence we already submitted. I can try to find a copy of the appeal, but I need some time. Send whatever new you have, any new publications, conference presentations, patents (even provisional), find citations of your work by others. You probably got something for the time you have been waiting."

From another posting by Tony403 (post #5 in this thread) suggest any new documents after filing dates would not be count. In Compass' case, he did not submit new evidence. So I am little hesitate whether to submit new evidence. Is that a right attitute to submit new evidence anyway because it is not going to hurt the case? The worst thing is the new evidence will not be honored by AAO. So eager to hear from you guys...
( I will also check with my "busy" lawyer, for sure)
 
Joo77 said:
I am not really sure about this:
"As to what documents needed for appeal, yes, according to my lawyer it is good to attach any new evidence. In my case, I did not have any new evidence, and my lawyer wrote something which I did not understand (I am a chemist and do not understand lawyer's terminology) and which meant that INS did not correctly interpter the evidence we already submitted. I can try to find a copy of the appeal, but I need some time. Send whatever new you have, any new publications, conference presentations, patents (even provisional), find citations of your work by others. You probably got something for the time you have been waiting."

From another posting by Tony403 (post #5 in this thread) suggest any new documents after filing dates would not be count. In Compass' case, he did not submit new evidence. So I am little hesitate whether to submit new evidence. Is that a right attitute to submit new evidence anyway because it is not going to hurt the case? The worst thing is the new evidence will not be honored by AAO. So eager to hear from you guys...
( I will also check with my "busy" lawyer, for sure)


From what I have read about the AAO decisions regarding EB1 OR cases is that new publications, references etc seem to be disregarded by USCIS. This is in reference to the matter of Katibagt (This could be misspelt), where an alien must qualify for the given category at the time of filing. However, there are plenty of instances when new evidence in the form of letters are requested by USCIS. So, rather than emphasize new pubs/references, you could provide new letters that refer to your accomplishments prior to the filing date. Slipping in some new stuff might not be detrimental, it might just be disregarded.
The third prong for NIW required you to justify why you should be excempt from labor certification, so you need to prove that your contributions are of "national significance" in certain areas. I would do a Google search and find articles on NIW petitions. There are several sites out there, and you should educate yourself a bit more on this. As for the lawyer, if you are paying the dude, he/she should give you access to all the material. Most immigration lawyers seem to be aware of the third prong, so I would definitely force the issue, and go for a new lawyer. Tne NIW is YOUR petition, so do not take any crap from your lawyer.
 
Hi Joo77,
My lawyer DID give me the petitions he prepared for me, all of them (I-140, rfe to I-140, appeal), and I did correct many little mistakes he did (non-corect dates, such as my Ph.D. date, words on my research topic, etc), and he submitted the stuff with my correction. I did not correct only appeal just because I had no time and there was not much therminology about my scientific research but just the 'lawyer's' words which I don't understand anyway. Again, I did not correct anything serious, just minor, should not be important, but I did see all.
Of course you lawyer should give you all copies if you request. Maybe you cannot give it to others, but you have the right to see yourself. Just request..and ask him all related questions, like your and spose's status after denial.
 
Joo77 said:
The thing is I have NEVER get a chance to read the petition letter written by the lawyer.

Hmmm, something's fishy here, if you ask me. I did get to review and edit mine, and it makes good sense, anyways. I'd say, you might consider changing your lawyer for appeal (confront him, at least - if he were to go defensive, I'd be suspicious). Better yet, start from scratch, using new evidence which you might not be able to use on appeal. I know, after 2 years it sounds depressing, but that is my battle plan if mine gets denied.

Shrek

"I am not a lawyer but anything I say should not be trusted anyway"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I will centainly review the appeal this time, by myself. I trusted my lawyer because my friend had a good experience with him and he got his GC. So...
Wish you good luck in your case, Shrek.
 
I got a question here for my appeal case. I know the Matter of Katigbak states the documents shoud be before the filing dates. In my appeal, I try to use some new citations (after filing dates) of my old papers (before the filing dates) to support my argument. Does anyone know AAO will honor this or dismiss this evidence? Is there an AAO precedent specifically address this issue?
Thank you.
 
Joo77 said:
I got a question here for my appeal case. I know the Matter of Katigbak states the documents shoud be before the filing dates. In my appeal, I try to use some new citations (after filing dates) of my old papers (before the filing dates) to support my argument. Does anyone know AAO will honor this or dismiss this evidence? Is there an AAO precedent specifically address this issue?
Thank you.

Why not try and get some more letters based on the work that you did BEFORE the filing as well? These can adress matters related to your denial strongly. From the OR appleals, it seems that AAO does not take into regards stuff after the filing date. However it cannot hurt to include post filing material.
 
Top