Let us separete ourselves from "ILLEGALS" or we will be toast with them

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logiclife

Registered Users (C)
Let us separate ourselves from "ILLEGALS" or we will be toast with them

There is an analysis on the upcoming immigration bill in washingtonpost.com on the frontpage of online version of the paper. In BOLD.


The article majorly deals with the politics of the immigration bill coming in Feb 2006 on both side of the aisle and people's opinion in general.

There is no mention of legal immigration. None. Nothing. NADA. ZIP.

Its all about illegal immigrants(mostly mexicans who jumped the fence on the southern border). And guess what?? Majority of America is against illegal immigration. And my fear is that the winds blowing against illegal kind of immigration will sweep us all in the same bundle and punish the LEGAL kind of immigration. Kind of like GUILT by association.

Here is a quote from washingtonpost.com(Most read inside Washington DC)

The Post-ABC News poll found that four in five Americans think the government is not doing enough to prevent illegal immigration, with three in five saying they strongly hold that view.

The same poll found that 56 percent of Americans believe that illegal immigrants have done more to hurt the country than to help it, with 37 percent saying they help the country. About three in five Republicans and a bare majority of Democrats agreed that illegal immigrants are detrimental to the country.
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See the whole thing here : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/02/AR2006010201376.html

My regtrogression brothers and sisters.....IF WE WANT TO END RETROGRESSION and end the H1B blackout WE HAVE GOT TO SEPARATE OURSELVES FROM THE ILLEGAL KIND and point out the congress and the general populace that there is another kind of immigration which is called ***TADA*** LEGAL IMMIGRATION. Its involves a process of granting permenant residence and citizenship to folks who are

1) Present Legally.
2) Entered LEgally.
3) Work legally.
4) Pay their income taxes.
5) Pay their social security and medicare taxes even when there is no guarantee of the benefits of either until they actually become citizens.
6) Play by the rules, file petitions for work permits and for permenant residency.

Our goal is not the hurt or help the cause of illegals but to make sure that we dont get punished due to wrath against them. After all, we played by the rules and we wait in line by the rules. We dont need amnesty. We need fair deal.

I once again urge you all to channel your energy to immigrationvoice.org This is a non-profit established with goal of ending retrogression using the next immigration bill as a vehicle. Its folks like you and me Losing sleep over retrogression. People like us wondering "What wrong did I do to deserve another 5-6 years of H1B extensions". I am not asking you to put money upfront. It does not cost anything to enroll or join or volunteer. But pooling ideas is invaluable. Stop sulking. Act now.
 
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Anti-Immigration Legislators give a damn if you are legal or illegal!
They just want aliens out!
 
but anti-immigration legislators can be educated about the benefits of legal immigration.........and the actual numbers involved(100K legals compared to million illegals every year).....and the selection process involved....
 
I don't want to disappoint you, but I 've already heard that expression:" Let's educate the Legislator"
Who do you think we are to" Educate" Legislators?
Do you think Legislator's pride would let them be "Educated" by poor aliens?
I don't think so!
 
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Dont spread pessimism please.

The problem is, because legal immigrants are keeping quiet, the only information that is being peddled to lawmakers in DC is about illegals and how they benefit from welfare and goverment funded programs WITHOUT paying taxes. That has created an anti-immigrant wave in the country. S 1932 provisions were defeated for reasons like that.

I personally dont think that lawmakers turn a deaf ear to people because they werent born here. That is the kind of negative attitude that screws us.

See below links on the kind of imformation lawmakers are getting from people, because we are QUIET and HOPING FOR BEST to happen to us.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4248328,00.html

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/articles/art2005aug11.html

Remember, there is justice in the world, but justice is NOT AUTOMATIC. If legal immigrants have no say, then how come Ms. Albright, born in Europe, became the FIRST EVER WOMAN SECRETARY OF STATE. And how come Arnold beat a couple of hundred NATIVE BORN AMERICANS and CAREER POLITICIANS in california elections. Espeically in California where the anti-immigration backlash is even more severe due to a trillion illegal mexicans????

http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=655

Quote from Arnold

In this country, it doesn't make any difference where you were born. It doesn't make any difference who your parents were. It doesn't make any difference if you're like me and couldn't even speak English until you were in your 20s. America gave me opportunities and my immigrant dreams came true. I want other people to get the same chance as I did, the same opportunities, and I believe they can. That's why I believe in this country, that's why I believe in this party, and that's why I believe in this president.
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If you follow politics, the republican party has been cozying up with the Latino vote since 2004 elections, and are afraid that their brief love affair with latinos(mexicans) might end soon. For that,they are willing to cut some slack and grant them amnesty. Latino vote going towards republicans was higher in 2004 than any other year.

If illegals can get such political clout then it would be a shame for us LEGAL immigrants to not be heard because we didnt even speak up.
 
Well said, Logiclife.

However, Archkre also has a point that Tancredo and his ilk just want all immigrants out - legal or illegal. Jut today, I heard on the radio that there is bill with 80 sponsors pending in Congress to stop giving everyone born in US automatic US citizenship.

I think we and illegal immigs are not in that different a boat. I think we have more to gain by fighting together rather than separately.
 
Citizenship by birth

That Citizenship by birth is opposed by some by not the citizenship given to children of legal immigrants. Only illegal immigrants. Its called "Anchor Baby".

Imaigine a fence-jumper who comes to USA illegaly by jumping the fence on the southern border, gives birth, the child becomes citizen and that baby gives them a reason to live, and even if you throw them out, the baby can sponsor them when they are 18 and a once illegal fence jumper becomes legal by "anchoring" the baby here.

What you are talking about is right here. The 14th amendment of the constitution.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/anchorbaby_FAIR.html

It speaks of birthright citizenship enjoyed by children born to illegals.

Even the most right-wing of the wingnuts do not oppose the children of legal immigrants gaining birthright citizenship. It creates an incentive to migrate illegally.

We did come to US on H1b or F1 to reproduce and have US citizen babies. that is not our incentive. Never was. We would have come here legally on H1, F1 even if we were told by our consulate that "Your kid wont be a citizen, so dont bother going there and having babies".

I agree that there are some wingnuts who will oppose everything but our job is to give reasons to the sane ones to do the right thing. Once again, we are not looking for charity, we are looking to create a win-win situation.

I would encourage you to join me a immigrationvoice.org. It doesnt cost money to post ideas there or volunteer. But your contribution encourages efforts of everyone.

--logiclife.
 
archkre.....sorry dude....you are way off......you have not met many good americans......they may be pissed off because of the job loss......but they will listen to you.....and we definitely have a good point about legal immigration.....

right now we lost becos law makers do not know about legal immigration......they think all immigration is bad...
 
logiclife said:
That Citizenship by birth is opposed by some by not the citizenship given to children of legal immigrants. Only illegal immigrants. Its called "Anchor Baby".

Imaigine a fence-jumper who comes to USA illegaly by jumping the fence on the southern border, gives birth, the child becomes citizen and that baby gives them a reason to live, and even if you throw them out, the baby can sponsor them when they are 18 and a once illegal fence jumper becomes legal by "anchoring" the baby here.

What you are talking about is right here. The 14th amendment of the constitution.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/anchorbaby_FAIR.html

It speaks of birthright citizenship enjoyed by children born to illegals.

Even the most right-wing of the wingnuts do not oppose the children of legal immigrants gaining birthright citizenship. It creates an incentive to migrate illegally.

We did come to US on H1b or F1 to reproduce and have US citizen babies. that is not our incentive. Never was. We would have come here legally on H1, F1 even if we were told by our consulate that "Your kid wont be a citizen, so dont bother going there and having babies".

I agree that there are some wingnuts who will oppose everything but our job is to give reasons to the sane ones to do the right thing. Once again, we are not looking for charity, we are looking to create a win-win situation.

I would encourage you to join me a immigrationvoice.org. It doesnt cost money to post ideas there or volunteer. But your contribution encourages efforts of everyone.

--logiclife.
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Logiclife,

I heard on the radio that this bill would restrict US citizenship only those babies born to US citizens or permanent residents. That means that even those babies born to legal imigs in H1 or EAD/AP status would not be given US citizenship.

Now, all of us know how long it takes to get US GC. I can assure you that many of us have our children here before we get GC. It only takes 9 months for a baby to be made, but it takes 5+ years for USCIS to process a few lousy papers to and print a plastic card granting GC. So, if these anti-imig people have their way, then our children born here will also be denied US citizenship, despite our paying taxes, Social security etc faithfully.

Like I said, do not take this attitude that the conservatives are only against illegal imigs, they are against all immigration, legal and illegal as Archkre pointed out. We better fight together, not divided.
 
Joining the illegal immigration crowd is at minimum a stupid move.
Groups such as Fairus.org and NumbersUsa and the vast majority of Americans are fed up against illegals and also against high numbers of legal immigrants coming to this country. Anyone joining pro illegal alien bills will be under "heavy machine gun fire" from angry Americans. Do you think the S.1932 defeat was unjust ? Senators would have chance to pass that bill if the cause was debated clearly as a way to relief the EB GC applicants who were in the queue. I strongly believe that a one-time recapture of EB numbers - not increasing the numbers permanently - would had been more reasonable. Instead, lobbysts included the very controversial issue of H1B visa number increases and that blew us away.

What I am saying is, let's request a solution to our problem:increase of visa numbers for legal immigrants. We have no business figthing for illegals and that will just cause more angry Americans to react, because the cause against illegal aliens is a very legitimate one.

What I am saying is that
gc-despo said:
Logiclife,

I heard on the radio that this bill would restrict US citizenship only those babies born to US citizens or permanent residents. That means that even those babies born to legal imigs in H1 or EAD/AP status would not be given US citizenship.

Now, all of us know how long it takes to get US GC. I can assure you that many of us have our children here before we get GC. It only takes 9 months for a baby to be made, but it takes 5+ years for USCIS to process a few lousy papers to and print a plastic card granting GC. So, if these anti-imig people have their way, then our children born here will also be denied US citizenship, despite our paying taxes, Social security etc faithfully.

Like I said, do not take this attitude that the conservatives are only against illegal imigs, they are against all immigration, legal and illegal as Archkre pointed out. We better fight together, not divided.
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Not just illegals, but H1-quota-increase crowds

Volunteers at immigrationvoice.org and most of them here are commited to getting the retrogression removed as a priority.

Relief for illegals is not our fight. Increase for new H1B quote is also not our fight. We are not against it but we do not want to join hands with folks who want to raise the current 65,000 numerical cap on H1. We really dont care of that happens or not but we have to stay away from that crowd.


Our goals are:

1) Eliminate retrogression.
2) Allow everyone to file I-485 even if there is retrogression.
3) Raise the immigration-visa numbers for EB immigrants from the current 140,000 to a higher numbers like 290,000(Specter bill).

To support these goals, join immigrationvoice.org, a non-profit org formed by volunteer who are retrogression victims and raising funds to professionally lobby in congress.

Thanks,
logiclife.
 
logiclife said:
Volunteers at immigrationvoice.org and most of them here are commited to getting the retrogression removed as a priority.

Relief for illegals is not our fight. Increase for new H1B quote is also not our fight. We are not against it but we do not want to join hands with folks who want to raise the current 65,000 numerical cap on H1. We really dont care of that happens or not but we have to stay away from that crowd.


Our goals are:

1) Eliminate retrogression.
2) Allow everyone to file I-485 even if there is retrogression.
3) Raise the immigration-visa numbers for EB immigrants from the current 140,000 to a higher numbers like 290,000(Specter bill).

To support these goals, join immigrationvoice.org, a non-profit org formed by volunteer who are retrogression victims and raising funds to professionally lobby in congress.

Thanks,
logiclife.
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Wow, these are really some short term goals - otherwise can be read as "gimme my GC now and I dont care about who comes after me". You dont want to fight for immigrants in general, you dont even want to fight to increase H1-B quota for your juniors, you are only concerned about the retrogression that you are facing today.

I dont blame you, after all, it is always every man for himself in this situation. But, I just want to point out that it is this short term view of "let me somehow get my GC and afterwards I dont care what happens" that has resulted in this continuing EB GC mess...
 
gc-despo....can u not understand...what priority means...

right now.....we cannot side with H1B's becos americans dont like them also....same with illegals...

we want to fight for our cause only.....that is our highest priority....

btw....everyone in the world takes care of himself first......so what the big deal u r making as though we are supposed to serve humanity...

i agree with u that even now...people are not caring to participate....and hence we are going to be in the mess for a while...
 
I am not against H1b Quota increase

I am not against H1 quota(65,000) raise.

I just dont want to dilute my message by talking about people in India and China who want H1B for the first time.

I love them, but I have to prioritize : Do I want to get something done for people on H1B already here or Do I want to fight for people who are working in Bangalore, Hyderabad and Beijing who aspire to come to USA.

Now for those folks, there is enough strength coming from people like Bill Gates and National association of manufacterers. They dont need help. Wealthy CEOs and their corporations are going to lobby for H1 quota increase anyways and anti-immigration lobby is going to bombard those CEOs anyways.

Do you want to join a fight that is bitter and more difficult to win, does NOTHING FOR US ALREADY HERE in order to HELP OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS SITTING IN INDIA AND CHINA?

This is not a social fight being fought for our cousins living in India. Most people here and immigrationvoice.org dont care if new H1 quota increase or decrease or becomes 1 trillion.

I hope you will agree with me.
 
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Gc-Despo, it is about all about priorities and strategies. Our proposal to solve the EB cut-off dates is reasonable since we have people waiting since 1998 in the queue. I think it is very reasonable get a solution for this specific problem and we need to focus on this for now. In this current climate it is simply suicidial trying to increase the quotas to 'by not counting spouses', 'increase H1B's' etc.

I sympathize with the new folks applying for the GC, but they/us can always fight for a more long-term solution perhaps addressed in one the upcoming guest-worker related bills.



gc-despo said:
Wow, these are really some short term goals - otherwise can be read as "gimme my GC now and I dont care about who comes after me". You dont want to fight for immigrants in general, you dont even want to fight to increase H1-B quota for your juniors, you are only concerned about the retrogression that you are facing today.

I dont blame you, after all, it is always every man for himself in this situation. But, I just want to point out that it is this short term view of "let me somehow get my GC and afterwards I dont care what happens" that has resulted in this continuing EB GC mess...
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Given the anti-immigration sentiment in the hill, there is no way we can align with the illegal immigrants.

gc_despo, if I wanted to do charitable effort, there are many more worthier causes for me to fight.
 
All,

I agree with Logiclife's sentiment that he wants to focus on ending the retrogression now. The efforts of immigrationvoice.org is commendable towards that goal. And I agree that trying to help future H1 folks now dilutes the focus.

What I saying in addition is this: One day (maybe in 1-2-3 years) retrogression will end thanks to all your efforts, and everyone currently on this forum will get GC. Then please do not disband and forget all about immigration and GC strucggles but properly pass on your knowledge and the contacts with lobbyists, Congressmen etc that you would have made during this fight to the next generation of GC aspirants so that they too can benefit.
 
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