Immigration News

[garam.chadi]

Key facts on U.S. agriculture, immigration


Immigrants have flooded into many U.S. industries for what President George W. Bush calls "the jobs Americans don't want." Agriculture is a prime area where mostly Mexican immigrants have put down roots so strong that companies may NO longer be able to operate without them.


A recent study by the American Farm Bureau Federation said a crackdown on illegal immigrant labor could cause production losses in U.S. up to $12 billion a year.

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12 billion a year ... is it not a big loss to sustain .. moreover US exports corn,wheat and other crops all over the globe ... There might be global starvation .... if the crops fail to be harvested ...

Aren't the undocumented worker really doing a very very important job?

 

[ufo2002]

It's all about minimizing costs and increasing personal profits. Undocuments usually dont have unions to argue about low wages, etc. Employers know they can just dump them if they become a problem, and hire replacements.
It's all about $ $ $.

 

[marlon2006]

They don't mention in the article the billions of dollars paid in medical care, welfare benefits, etc. Also, in the past the same doomsday scenario was plotted by then the industry came up with automation of several services and the agriculture sector not only survived by thrived. I believe many illegal aliens contribute to the country, but I don't think the country would stop without them. One can be happy about the reason that is a common sense that skilled workers, us, are economically feasible to the country. However, I don't think that means they would hurry to extend us the red carpet, since probably even more feasible is our current limbo status while paying taxes the same way.

Here is a fresh news from the SFC, today:

"In that part of the labor market, the entrance of Mexican labor clearly creates a downward pressure on wages. ... I happen to be sympathetic to immigrants, but to pretend that it doesn't have this effect on wages and on distribution is to stick our heads in the sand and argue from ideology rather than argue from the facts," he said in an interview with The Chronicle.

Economists largely agree, however, that highly skilled immigrants benefit the economy, despite the argument that they reduce the incentive for American children to enter fields such as engineering.

Siciliano said these workers should be invited to stay, and the United States should invest in educating native-born youth, so that "the 5-year-olds right now do end up getting the double Ph.D in electrical engineering and applied physics and go on to win the Nobel Prize. You're talking about 5-year-olds, not the 25-year-olds. We need the 25-year-olds to get an H1B (visa), have their own governments pay them to go to Stanford University, and then go on to work at Google. That's a good deal for us."

The $2,000 fee for the H1B visa is spent on science and math education and training. A survey by the National Foundation for American Policy, a nonprofit research group, found that employers have paid more than $1 billion in H1B visa fees since 1999. The fees have funded more than 40,000 scholarships and grants for U.S. students in science and math, and science programs for 75,000 middle and high school students, and provided training for 55,000 U.S. workers and teachers, the study found. "

Key facts on U.S. agriculture, immigration


Immigrants have flooded into many U.S. industries for what President George W. Bush calls "the jobs Americans don't want." Agriculture is a prime area where mostly Mexican immigrants have put down roots so strong that companies may NO longer be able to operate without them.


A recent study by the American Farm Bureau Federation said a crackdown on illegal immigrant labor could cause production losses in U.S. up to $12 billion a year.

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------​

12 billion a year ... is it not a big loss to sustain .. moreover US exports corn,wheat and other crops all over the globe ... There might be global starvation .... if the crops fail to be harvested ...

Aren't the undocumented worker really doing a very very important job?

 

[nTan]

They don't mention in the article the billions of dollars paid in medical care, welfare benefits, etc.

That might be true for documented workers too ..

1> Every child that goes to public school ... approx $10,000 is spent on the kid each year...

So for a legal immigrant ... if he has 2 shool going kids .. you have already taking out .... $20,000.

2> Most of the desi employers do not provide medical insurance or in adequate insurance...

This is told by my friend .. who works for TCS .. its a desi company ... and it does provide him with a insurance ... But its a bad insurance policy .. TCS pays around $50 pm per employee .. So it does not cover any thing much....
So when his wife had the baby .. he had no money to pay ... and out of 23,000 bill .. insurance paid 1200 and rest was the loss to the hospital.


Why blame only the undocument for the drain ... very many of us also do.

 

[ufo2002]

Actually, we documenteds HAVE legal recourse if our employers do not provide insurance. Work with the Dept of Labor to sue the employer, but of course that puts your visa in jeopardy i guess!
Undocumenteds won't sue cause that means revealing themselves.
Also, the scenario below is a rip-off... even if the employer provides insurance, it's obviously a burden on the employee.

This is told by my friend .. who works for TCS .. its a desi company ... and it does provide him with a insurance ... But its a bad insurance policy .. TCS pays around $50 pm per employee .. So it does not cover any thing much....
So when his wife had the baby .. he had no money to pay ... and out of 23,000 bill .. insurance paid 1200 and rest was the loss to the hospital.
Why blame only the undocument for the drain ... very many of us also do.

 

[avi101]

Actually, we documenteds HAVE legal recourse if our employers do not provide insurance. Work with the Dept of Labor to sue the employer, but of course that puts your visa in jeopardy i guess!
Undocumenteds won't sue cause that means revealing themselves.
Also, the scenario below is a rip-off... even if the employer provides insurance, it's obviously a burden on the employee.

Employers are not obligated to provide health insurance. Its a benefit that employers provide and varies wildly. If they misleading by claiming they are provinding health insurance whereas they are not, then they can be sued.

 

[marlon2006]

nTan, if there is a H or AOS worker not paying the hospital bill, I can tell you upfront that is an exception. I am sure that the majority of legal immigrants or H workers like us would pay the hospital bill or way or the other. If you cannot pay the amount upfront because you don't have insurance, you would ended up making arrangements to break up the payments. How do I know that ? I know it because if you don't pay, your credit is going to reflect that. Most of us don't want to see our names in a court or ended up with bad credits. Now for the illegal aliens I can assure you from my own experience - I have friends who worked at the hospital and told me and showed me a bill - a person there had a difficult pregnancy. The bill was the same my wife got:$30,000.00. Well guess what, the illegal aliens get bills, they go to court and simply say they have no income - even if they do have a good income - and that's it. They don't bother for bad credit. They would just get another bogus SSN if that's the case anyway.

Now regarding the school payment, as far as I know that is part of the taxes that we pay. H or AOS workers typically pay taxes accordingly and therefore my child education is covered for that reason.

That might be true for documented workers too ..

1> Every child that goes to public school ... approx $10,000 is spent on the kid each year...

So for a legal immigrant ... if he has 2 shool going kids .. you have already taking out .... $20,000.

2> Most of the desi employers do not provide medical insurance or in adequate insurance...

This is told by my friend .. who works for TCS .. its a desi company ... and it does provide him with a insurance ... But its a bad insurance policy .. TCS pays around $50 pm per employee .. So it does not cover any thing much....
So when his wife had the baby .. he had no money to pay ... and out of 23,000 bill .. insurance paid 1200 and rest was the loss to the hospital.


Why blame only the undocument for the drain ... very many of us also do.

 

[mydearcard]

Merlon

I beg to differ your views on this. I know a consultant working fr desk MNC, I do not want to name this company. Consultant I know is works on SAP but his company provided insurance is not good enough. that is the whole reason he and his wife are differing their plans for baby. YOu know these ppl working on SAP make a shitload of money but they cant afford expenses for baby. What an irony.

nTan, if there is a H or AOS worker not paying the hospital bill, I can tell you upfront that is an exception. I am sure that the majority of legal immigrants or H workers like us would pay the hospital bill or way or the other. If you cannot pay the amount upfront because you don't have insurance, you would ended up making arrangements to break up the payments. How do I know that ? I know it because if you don't pay, your credit is going to reflect that. Most of us don't want to see our names in a court or ended up with bad credits. Now for the illegal aliens I can assure you from my own experience - I have friends who worked at the hospital and told me and showed me a bill - a person there had a difficult pregnancy. The bill was the same my wife got:$30,000.00. Well guess what, the illegal aliens get bills, they go to court and simply say they have no income - even if they do have a good income - and that's it. They don't bother for bad credit. They would just get another bogus SSN if that's the case anyway.

Now regarding the school payment, as far as I know that is part of the taxes that we pay. H or AOS workers typically pay taxes accordingly and therefore my child education is covered for that reason.

 

[marlon2006]

MyDearCard, but you are saying that they cannot afford to pay the hospital expenses that is why they will postpone ? It makes sense, lots of people are under tight budget and company doesn't pay good insurance. I am sure lots and lots of H or AOS people. No questions about it.
What I meant is that at least when I inquired about this same issue with my insurance provider, I was told that if I just tried to walk away from the $30,000+ bill my wife got, the hospital billing department told me they would make me split the bill and pay it anyway. They said that if I didn't want to pay the bill, I would face credit penalties like any other bill. At least that was my experience. Thanks God my insurance paid 100% of that bill and more.

Merlon

I beg to differ your views on this. I know a consultant working fr desk MNC, I do not want to name this company. Consultant I know is works on SAP but his company provided insurance is not good enough. that is the whole reason he and his wife are differing their plans for baby. YOu know these ppl working on SAP make a shitload of money but they cant afford expenses for baby. What an irony.

 

[nTan]

I have friends who worked at the hospital and told me and showed me a bill - a person there had a difficult pregnancy. The bill was the same my wife got:$30,000.00. Well guess what, the illegal aliens get bills, they go to court and simply say they have no income - even if they do have a good income - and that's it. They don't bother for bad credit. They would just get another bogus SSN if that's the case anyway.

There are many things into it ...

Say ... you have an insurance ... from work ... good
Now Ur employer pays $5000 a year as insurance permium.
Now the hospital Bills U 30,000 and Ur insurance paid in full (as U said, although they never do that).

Now the insurance already overpaid 25,000 ... than Ur premium ...
This 25,000 will come out of other healthy members ....

When U put a drain on the insurance money ... they simply raise the premium next year ..

So U are putting a drain on many peoples money and an non-insured is putting a drain on hospitals money ...

 

[nTan]

Now regarding the school payment, as far as I know that is part of the taxes that we pay. H or AOS workers typically pay taxes accordingly and therefore my child education is covered for that reason.

If you are making around 70K a year ... and if U have 2 kids going to public school ...

You are not paying as much in taxes .... as they spend for tuitions.
[ after U do all Ur returns - do not add what U contribute to Ur social security and medical ....]

 

[marlon2006]

nTan, but the point is that we are paying the tax we are required. I pay taxes as much as any US citizen. Therefore there is nothing wrong with that. In the case of the Premium insurance you mentioned, I am not sure if I understand your argument either:
Correct, my wife's final bill I think it was 50K and right, that most likely increased the payment to all other contributors in my organization. However that is how it operates for everyone in my organization, which is compromised of 99% of US citizens.

What I said before is that supporters of illegal aliens/amnesty constantly outline the billions of dollars illegal aliens contribute to the economy and that may be correct. However they failed to outline the billions and billions of dollars which are subsidized by tax payers, since illegal aliens are typically not paying taxes except sales taxes.

If you are making around 70K a year ... and if U have 2 kids going to public school ...

You are not paying as much in taxes .... as they spend for tuitions.
[ after U do all Ur returns - do not add what U contribute to Ur social security and medical ....]

 

[ufo2002]

Whoa, wait a minute, I gotta stand up for this.
I happen to be working in the SAP industry so I know how much consultants/contractors make.
First of all, this guy who works for the MNC, is he a full-time employee of that company or is an independent contractor?
If he's full-time, and he's from India, with only a year or two of SAP experience, most likely his salary is only about 50,000 annual. If he lives in a high-income tax state with high cost of living (California or NY), that kind of salary is a pittance.... apt rental rates in those places are ridiculous.

If an SAP consultant is being paid $100/hr, ask him how many percent of that hourly goes to him and how much goes to his company. I know that many consultants only get like 20% of that hourly, so the bulk of the money is going to the company.

So before you go shooting off that SAP people are rich, think about the food chain and remember it's the people at the top of that chain that makes the shitload (ie the CEOs, other managers, recruiters, head hunters).

Merlon

I beg to differ your views on this. I know a consultant working fr desk MNC, I do not want to name this company. Consultant I know is works on SAP but his company provided insurance is not good enough. that is the whole reason he and his wife are differing their plans for baby. YOu know these ppl working on SAP make a shitload of money but they cant afford expenses for baby. What an irony.

 

[posmd]

Risk pooling.

Have you heard of the concept of risk pooling! That is what insurance is about. Your argument is null and void and based on the assumption that you spend only and contribute little. Young healthy people frequently claim nothing back. I have been in this country for 7 yrs now and paid probably over 10K car insurance, probably over 20K(me or my emplyer) for health insurance and many times that in Federal,State,Property,Sales taxes and Social Security and Medicare...............for all this I have recieved rather little other than the commonalities we all get by living here. That is part of life and the structure of the society. I do not consider it that I am subsidising someone else. Fact is now I give a lot more than I get. I believe most legal immigrants are like me, they give more than they get, even economists testifying in front of the senate alluded to this. One day I may be on the other (receiving) end.

There are many things into it ...

Say ... you have an insurance ... from work ... good
Now Ur employer pays $5000 a year as insurance permium.
Now the hospital Bills U 30,000 and Ur insurance paid in full (as U said, although they never do that).

Now the insurance already overpaid 25,000 ... than Ur premium ...
This 25,000 will come out of other healthy members ....

When U put a drain on the insurance money ... they simply raise the premium next year ..

So U are putting a drain on many peoples money and an non-insured is putting a drain on hospitals money ...