If you thought Retrogression is going to reduce with Frist's or Specter's Bill...

[gc_bronco]

If you thought Retrogression is going to go away with Frist's or Specter's Bill, think again. Many of you are jubiant about Frist's and Specter's Bill. For most of you, these bills will leave you worse off, if you are from the the heavily retrogressed countries of India and China. This is all because of the hard limit on the country quota.

Just to put things in perspective. Last year 16,685 EB-2s and 23,399 EB-3 were approved for India. Under both these bills, the numbers will reduce to 4,350 and 10,150. Even if you take into account the fact that dependents will be taken out of the quota the actual approvals is going to reduce to 8,700 and 20,300 respectively.

Also the number of people who will be go outside of the quota because of the STEM degrees is likely to be very small because of the constraint, that only those who have worked for 3 years or more in a RELATED field will not be considered within the quota. So if you did your masters in Electrical Engineering but you are currently working in Software, you will still be within the quota. As for the recapture of the lost visas, that is only a one time deal and is still subject to hard country quota.

More details here - http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=346

Net, Net - In their Current Form both of these bills will only increase the retrogression for most of us. All of us need to work together to make sure that there is no Hard limit for each country.

 

[can_card]

If you thought Retrogression is going to go away with Frist's or Specter's Bill, think again. Many of you are jubiant about Frist's and Specter's Bill. For most of you, these bills will leave you worse off, if you are from the the heavily retrogressed countries of India and China. This is all because of the hard limit on the country quota.

Just to put things in perspective. Last year 16,685 EB-2s and 23,399 EB-3 were approved for India. Under both these bills, the numbers will reduce to 4,350 and 10,150. Even if you take into account the fact that dependents will be taken out of the quota the actual approvals is going to reduce to 8,700 and 20,300 respectively.

Also the number of people who will be go outside of the quota because of the STEM degrees is likely to be very small because of the constraint, that only those who have worked for 3 years or more in a RELATED field will not be considered within the quota. So if you did your masters in Electrical Engineering but you are currently working in Software, you will still be within the quota. As for the recapture of the lost visas, that is only a one time deal and is still subject to hard country quota.

More details here - http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=346

Net, Net - In their Current Form both of these bills will only increase the retrogression for most of us. All of us need to work together to make sure that there is no Hard Country Cap.

EB2 is worst affected by both the bills the number is same as current situation no increse for EB1 or EB2. If STEM (MS+3years to avoid numarical limitation) guys need LC (we do not know yet), their LC may not get approved as labor department may say MS+3yrs experience unduly restrcitve requirement for most of the occupations.

In my openion, IV should give top priority for reinstating the AC21 provision that elimiate per country limit in EB visas. It should try to lobby some senetors to bring an amendment in either Frist or Specter bill (whichever makes to Senate floor). Unfortunatly no law firm or organization pointed out this problem, as they are mainly worrying about undocumented.

 

[texancanadian]

We should lobby for all Masters degrees, not just STEM.
For ex. if you have PhD in Ecomics, which is highly technical you dont get counted as STEM.
What about ppl with MBA's or MS in Finance/MIS.
I think we should lobby for this.

 

[gc_bronco]

Again, it is not only EB-2 that is getting affected. It is also EB-3 for which the quota actually reduces for people from India and China. So there is absolutely no reason why so many of us are jubilant about Frist's or Specter's bill.

This is one of the highest priority items for IV along with the ability to file I-485

 

[atlfp]

This is false

You are assuming that there will still be enough "unused" visa number by other contries.

Indian and China was able to use that many EB numbers was because there was basically "no limits" on the total number of visa numbers due to the recaptured visa number and apparently DOS didn't get hand on controlling the total number of visa approvals (remember last year EB3 became unavailable? That should have not happened if DOS has been strictly following the law).

Indian and China will not be able to get that many EB numbers today because the total number is tight. So they may not go over the 7 percent at all even if the law allows them to use other countries number.

Thus increase it to 10 percent might be a positive move. Of course you won't get what you used to get when visa number wasn't an issue.

If you thought Retrogression is going to go away with Frist's or Specter's Bill, think again. Many of you are jubiant about Frist's and Specter's Bill. For most of you, these bills will leave you worse off, if you are from the the heavily retrogressed countries of India and China. This is all because of the hard limit on the country quota.

Just to put things in perspective. Last year 16,685 EB-2s and 23,399 EB-3 were approved for India. Under both these bills, the numbers will reduce to 4,350 and 10,150. Even if you take into account the fact that dependents will be taken out of the quota the actual approvals is going to reduce to 8,700 and 20,300 respectively.

Also the number of people who will be go outside of the quota because of the STEM degrees is likely to be very small because of the constraint, that only those who have worked for 3 years or more in a RELATED field will not be considered within the quota. So if you did your masters in Electrical Engineering but you are currently working in Software, you will still be within the quota. As for the recapture of the lost visas, that is only a one time deal and is still subject to hard country quota.

More details here - http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=346

Net, Net - In their Current Form both of these bills will only increase the retrogression for most of us. All of us need to work together to make sure that there is no Hard limit for each country.

 

[garam.chadi]

You are assuming that there will still be enough "unused" visa number by other contries.

True ... currently EB-3 worldwide is retrogressed to 01MAY01 ...
We would welcome if they remove the country quota all together, but it might NOT help in the current period.

The shear number of people waiting under EB, there seems to be no easy way to grant GC in a short period of time to ALL, unless they come up with someting like "Give Away GC". Well we would all love it , right.

But hey, Frist's and Specter's Bill might help as they want to increase the number of GC and increase the % of EB-3's who are more in number --- waiting.
The think tanks are working and as "saras76" said -- we might all gain in the end.

 

[saras76]

Lets be realistic here .....

True ... currently EB-3 worldwide is retrogressed to 01MAY01 ...
We would welcome if they remove the country quota all together, but it might NOT help in the current period.

The shear number of people waiting under EB, there seems to be no easy way to grant GC in a short period of time to ALL, unless they come up with someting like "Give Away GC". Well we would all love it , right.

But hey, Frist's and Specter's Bill might help as they want to increase the number of GC and increase the % of EB-3's who are more in number --- waiting.
The think tanks are working and as "saras76" said -- we might all gain in the end.

Guys and Gals,

At this point we are in such a desperate situation that any sort of attention to the plight of EB categories is a positive thing. Lets be honest here. There is no bill in the world that can solve all the problems instantly. Whatever bill is passed will benefit certain people more than others but an increase in the total number of EB3 visas cannot be a totally bad thing. Recapture of unused visas will help. Not counting spouses and children against the cap will potentially increase the visa percentage per country to almost double. If the world wide EB3 visas are increased then the thousand ton gorilla in the shape of the 245is will go away more quickly. So there are positives here ...

I must admit that I have not read the bill in detail or given a serious thought to all the reprecussions, however I am at a point where I feel that "we beggars can't be choosers". Lets take it one step at a time and try to get some improvement. I am not asking us to settle .. I am asking that we be realisitc in our demands and our expectations.

I do not see the removal of the country limits as an achievable goal. Reinstating the old rule of using the unused visas from worldwide has a 50-50 chance.

regards,

saras76

 

[can_card]

Guys and Gals,

I know that tge title of this post sounds offensive but in the current situation it is very relevant. At this point we are in such a desperate situation that any sort of attention to the plight of EB categories is a positive thing. Lets be honest here. There is no bill in the world that can solve all the problems instantly. Whatever bill is passed will benefit certain people more than others but an increase in the total number of EB3 visas cannot be a totally bad thing. Recapture of unused visas will help. Not counting spouses and children against the cap will potentially increase the visa percentage per country to almost double. If the world wide EB3 visas are increased then the thousand ton gorilla in the shape of the 245is will go away more quickly. So there are positives here ...

I must admit that I have not read the bill in detail or given a serious thought to all the reprecussions, however I am at a point where I feel that "we beggars can't be choosers". Lets take it one step at a time and try to get some improvement. I am not asking us to settle .. I am asking that we be realisitc in our demands and our expectations.

I do not see the removal of the country limits as an achievable goal. Reinstating the old rule of using the unused visas from worldwide has a 50-50 chance.

regards,

saras76

Both the bills are not good for India and China. It is worst than current situation. For example, in FY 2005 both china and India consumed about 60% EB2 visa. The total demand from India and China in EB visasa are much more higher that what 10% gives. Specter/Frist removed very important provision that eliminate per country limit in EB visas for oversubscribed countries. This is a big blow to India, China. It will stop all the benefits from this bill.If current form of Specter/Frist bill passes, all the new numbers created thro above listed provisions, will not give any benefit to India/China. DOS simply say per country limit is 10% only no matter what. This will result in about 70% of wastage of visas in EB1, 2 3 catagories. All these unused numbers from EB1,2,3 will go to EB5 per year.

In my view, bringing back the provision that eliminate the country limit in EB1,2,3 is more more important than increasing the visa numbers. Even if the total visas just only 140,000 (with excluding dependents) will give more benefit to India and china if country limit is eliminated than the current verson of the bill.

 

[WellWisher007]

Well said!!! Saras

Realistic but still an optimistic posting!!! You may want to change the title though C'mon, don't be so dramatic!!!! cheers!!!

Guys and Gals,

I know that tge title of this post sounds offensive but in the current situation it is very relevant. At this point we are in such a desperate situation that any sort of attention to the plight of EB categories is a positive thing. Lets be honest here. There is no bill in the world that can solve all the problems instantly. Whatever bill is passed will benefit certain people more than others but an increase in the total number of EB3 visas cannot be a totally bad thing. Recapture of unused visas will help. Not counting spouses and children against the cap will potentially increase the visa percentage per country to almost double. If the world wide EB3 visas are increased then the thousand ton gorilla in the shape of the 245is will go away more quickly. So there are positives here ...

I must admit that I have not read the bill in detail or given a serious thought to all the reprecussions, however I am at a point where I feel that "we beggars can't be choosers". Lets take it one step at a time and try to get some improvement. I am not asking us to settle .. I am asking that we be realisitc in our demands and our expectations.

I do not see the removal of the country limits as an achievable goal. Reinstating the old rule of using the unused visas from worldwide has a 50-50 chance.

regards,

saras76

 

[eBhola]

This will result in about 70% of wastage of visas in EB1, 2 3 catagories. All these unused numbers from EB1,2,3 will go to EB5 per year.

In my view, bringing back the provision that eliminate the country limit in EB1,2,3 is more more important than increasing the visa numbers. Even if the total visas just only 140,000 (with excluding dependents) will give more benefit to India and china if country limit is eliminated than the current verson of the bill.

70% wastage how ... when EB-3 world wide is also retrogressed to May2001.

Moreover its always like that .. we have a country limit now also ... and a memo overrides it ... The same thing will happen now also ... the bill when signed will tell 10% ( they cannot have - no limits) and later according to the needs the memo will over ride.... It is easier to do somethings in memo's as they are not permanent.

So in all ... these bills will help us in a big way.



Bring Back old provisions -- U mean here DO NOTHING?

 

[saras76]

Done ..

Realistic but still an optimistic posting!!! You may want to change the title though C'mon, don't be so dramatic!!!! cheers!!!

WellWisher007,

I changed the heading ... I try my hand at drama once in a while. You can't be a true Indian without adequate amounts of drama and emotion ..

regards,

saras76

 

[can_card]

70% wastage how ... when EB-3 world wide is also retrogressed to May2001.

Bring Back old provisions -- U mean here DO NOTHING?

The increse in visa numbers in EB3 is huge, as per both bills. Just think howmuch numbers will this bill increase. Here is the list, 35% of 290K in Eb3, excluding dependentss from numarical limit, recapture of visas from 2001 and excluding dependents for that numbers. Now, these numbers are more however only 10% is allowed for India and China from these increased numbers. The demand is much more higher than what 10% gives. There will be more and more numbers available in EB3 for countries other than India, china and Mexico. If India, china and Mexico do not use fullly in EB3 catagory, it will go to EB5.

What I am saying here is if IN.CH, MX is not allowed to use excess visas, there is no benefit from increasing the visas to what ever high extend.

 

[saras76]

I understand ..

The increse in visa numbers in EB3 is huge, as per both bills. Just think howmuch numbers will this bill increase. Here is the list, 35% of 290K in Eb3, excluding dependentss from numarical limit, recapture of visas from 2001 and excluding dependents for that numbers. Now, these numbers are more however only 10% is allowed for India and China from these increased numbers. The demand is much more higher than what 10% gives. There will be more and more numbers available in EB3 for countries other than India, china and Mexico. If India, china and Mexico do not use fullly in EB3 catagory, it will go to EB5.

What I am saying here is if IN.CH, MX is not allowed to use excess visas, there is no benefit from increasing the visas to what ever high extend.

can_card,

I totally understand what you are saying. Our only hope is that the provision allowing oversubscribed countries to get visas from the undersubscribed countries be placed in the bill. Taking away spouses and children from the visa count will help a bit to. As they say, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. There is only so much that can happen to improve our situation.

regards,

saras76

 

[ark2006]

law into effect

Does anyone know if either of bills is passed in Senate, when will it be in effect as a law ?

 

[Nadi]

The increse in visa numbers in EB3 is huge, as per both bills.

Yes its huge ... so it is good .. so let it come in current form ... Hmm if the bill passes.

Then I am sure there will be an internal memo to disregard the country quota until the retrogression ends or visa number is exhausted.

I think we should not all worry all that much or try to stall ( ... which we cannot) the bill which promises a big time increase in visa numbers..

Memos are easier to pass then the law... as Memos are temporary meaures. So I feel there will be another memo similar to what we have now .... and that might be a win win for all retrogressed.

As some one said --- lets be realistic in our demand and let the lawmakers work think that out for us. I am sure they will as most seem atleast PRO legal immigration.

 

[atlfp]

Have you been hibernating all the winter and just now woken up?

Does anyone know if either of bills is passed in Senate, when will it be in effect as a law ?

 

[GOD_BLESS_YOU]

Does anyone know if either of bills is passed in Senate, when will it be in effect as a law ?

I expect atleast another 4 to 5 months to see the final results!!

Once any of these bills pass in Senate there will be conferance between House and senate to decide the final consolidation bill (as Border security bill is already passed in house and senate is attaching these immigration provisions along with senate version of border security)

we don't know what will be filtered out in that process !!

the consolidation bill again need to pass in both senate and house.,
then it goes to president sign.,
then it becomes a law and USCIS will make new procedures based on the enacted law!!

LONG WAY TO GO ....

 

[rrajendr]

can_Card
I know that you have lot of insight into the AC21 legislation. There are some clarifications needed on the immigrationvoice regarding AC21 and the current bill Specter/Frist and it is very important. Could you please shed light on it there? thanks a lot. For your reference the url is

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=346&page=4

EB2 is worst affected by both the bills the number is same as current situation no increse for EB1 or EB2. If STEM (MS+3years to avoid numarical limitation) guys need LC (we do not know yet), their LC may not get approved as labor department may say MS+3yrs experience unduly restrcitve requirement for most of the occupations.

In my openion, IV should give top priority for reinstating the AC21 provision that elimiate per country limit in EB visas. It should try to lobby some senetors to bring an amendment in either Frist or Specter bill (whichever makes to Senate floor). Unfortunatly no law firm or organization pointed out this problem, as they are mainly worrying about undocumented.

 

[marlon2006]

I agree. The difficult part is that senators seems to have converged on the STEM advanced degree. Darn, non-technical degrees are not considered in shortage. We shall lobby for that though.

We should lobby for all Masters degrees, not just STEM.
For ex. if you have PhD in Ecomics, which is highly technical you dont get counted as STEM.
What about ppl with MBA's or MS in Finance/MIS.
I think we should lobby for this.

 

[the]

i thought MS-MIS is considered STEM???

I agree. The difficult part is that senators seems to have converged on the STEM advanced degree. Darn, non-technical degrees are not considered in shortage. We shall lobby for that though.