I864 / I864A confusion

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William3

Registered Users (C)
Hi folks,
I'm having trouble rationalizing what to put where on each of these forms.
My spouse is the actual sponsor but her income alone this year (line 5 on I-864) is below the level. So, I add my income on line 6a/b/c. Total on Line 10 is plenty. OK so far.

First question occurs at Part 6-Line 13a/b/c. We filed a Joint return in 2010 and 2011. Does the COMBINED joint income go into these slots or do I separate hers out from the total? We filed separate in 2012 and her income level would not have met the minimum. Does combined go into that box?

If I can get past this question I might have to ask about the same and how it is reflected on my 864A.

Thanks in advance,
William
 
You would fill I-864 on behalf of your wife and I-864A for yourself. I-864 would have your wife's income details and I-864A would have your income details
 
William3 said:
First question occurs at Part 6-Line 13a/b/c. We filed a Joint return in 2010 and 2011. Does the COMBINED joint income go into these slots or do I separate hers out from the total?
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Note that they have separate questions for the sponsor's individual income, and income on the tax return. The latter would be combined income if taxes were filed jointly, but in your case it would be her individual income because you filed taxes separately.

And they have a separate question #10 for "My current Annual Household Income"; that is where you would add up the different income figures as indicated.
 
Thanks guys. Just to make sure I understand this (I don't really) ...
On the I-864
Line 13A -2012 - her income only since we filed separate that year
Line 13B - 2011 - Combined income since we filed joint that year
Line 13C - 2010 - Combined income since we filed joint that year

I-864A is not necessary if the other source of income is the immigrant, which is the case here.
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This is NOT the case. My wife and I are sponsoring her relative. So I would be filling the 864A based on what is shown in line 10/11.

If this much is correct I now have some questions about the same on 864A.

I would logically think that my wife's income would be on 864 and mine would be on 864A (or vice versa for that matter) but that would be too straightforward for a government form!

-William
 
Exactly.

Now on to the 864A. Line 11 is also asking for 2012, 2011, 2010 income and says "my total income (adjusted gross income on IRS form...)" which again suggests that I would be showing combined income since we filed jointly in 2011 and 2010. That doesn't seem right but I might be thinking too much.

I even called somebody at the center in Kentucky who said, yes, those three lines would be the same on the 864A as the 864. Just doesn't seem right. Maybe I failed to give her a certain detail or whatever but I'd like a second opinion on this. I understand that the 864A serves as a contract between my wife and I in this case and not as a second Affidavit of Support for the intended immigrant so I'm trying to understand it all within that parameter.

Again, thanks.
-William

EDIT: One more thing just dawned on me. Since my wife is the actual petitioner she should be checking 1a on the 864, right? As opposed to her checking 1e as the 'first of two sponsors' since I'm not actually a second sponsor. I'm just part of the household income. There is no second 864 being submitted by anyone else. Do I understand that correctly?
 
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William3 said:
On the I-864
Line 13A -2012 - her income only since we filed separate that year
Line 13B - 2011 - Combined income since we filed joint that year
Line 13C - 2010 - Combined income since we filed joint that year
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Yes, yes and yes. Tax return income for Q13 is to be written as is from the information on the tax returns for question 13a/b/c, whether it was separate or joint (even if it was joint with a previous spouse!).

This is NOT the case. My wife and I are sponsoring her relative.
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OK, I stand corrected. But almost all the time, when people ask about I-864 and mention their spouse being the sponsor, the person who wrote the post is the immigrant unless they specifically wrote otherwise, so that's why I assumed you were the immigrant.

I even called somebody at the center in Kentucky who said, yes, those three lines would be the same on the 864A as the 864. Just doesn't seem right.
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That's because it's not right. The people on their phones are very unreliable. Those lines would be the same on both if you filed jointly with the same spouse for all three tax years, but not if you filed taxes separately for one or more of those years, or filed with a previous spouse.

Note that the I-864A also has a separate question (#10) for your current individual income. That figure would be written in 6c of the I-864, then added towards the total for Q10 of the I-864.
 
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Many thanks jackolantern.

Tax return income for Q13 is to be written as is from the information on the tax returns for question 13a/b/c, whether it was separate or joint
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That's the magic answer. This jello is starting to take shape and congeal thanks to your help. I guess I should include a simple explanatory statement of some sort to explain what's going on. I don't expect them to be tax professionals to be able to understand what's going on based on what they ask on the forms and the copies I'll be submitting. Shoot, I can hardly explain it myself. To make matters worse I was a mainland USA 1099er in 2011 and 2010 and a USA employee in 2012. My domicile is Puerto Rico as is my wife's. We live together but I go away to the mainland for work. Her income is local. My Federal numbers don't necessarily match my PR numbers due to differences in deductions and exemptions. So my AGI figures are different on my 1040-PR vs the PR planilla. I won't bore you with that little detail!

The immigrant has 'hired' a local attorney in Sto Domingo to help her with the paperwork on her end. He's telling me that all my tax form copies need to be "Notarizado y Legalizada" by the "Departamento de Estado Norteamericano" . That sounds like total BS to me. I have no idea how I would get copies of my tax forms notarized by the US State Department. Any comment on that?

And lastly, am I correct in that my wife's 864 affidavit should be checked as 1a since I am not actually a second or co-sponsor?

-William
 
William3 said:
The immigrant has 'hired' a local attorney in Sto Domingo to help her with the paperwork on her end. He's telling me that all my tax form copies need to be "Notarizado y Legalizada" by the "Departamento de Estado Norteamericano" . That sounds like total BS to me. I have no idea how I would get copies of my tax forms notarized by the US State Department. Any comment on that?
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That also sounds unnecessary to me. But you can avoid that by ordering tax return transcripts from the IRS. That will satisfy the possible need to have the returns "officialized".

And lastly, am I correct in that my wife's 864 affidavit should be checked as 1a since I am not actually a second or co-sponsor?
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Yes, 1(a) is the correct choice if the immigrant is her relative for whom she has filed or is filing I-130.
 
Jackolantern said:
That also sounds unnecessary to me. But you can avoid that by ordering tax return transcripts from the IRS. That will satisfy the possible need to have the returns "officialized".
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Thanks. I have not heard of such a pre-requisite before and it sounds like 'shiny Sto Domingo lawyer bluster' to me. Transcripts wouldn't fully address the situation because of the US/PR filing conundrum. Since he is managing the application I'll be sending everything to him and let him sort out all the details of where to send the 864, etc. Wicked of me, huh? Not to veer too far off topic he sounds like a typical Third World immigration hustler and all that entails and his selling point is that he will sit beside you for the interview. I'm sure you are familiar with that scenario.

It took me 4 years from fiance visa application to Green Card back about 15 years ago. I spent many a morning watching the sun rise on Calle Cesar Nicolas Penson in a line several blocks long only to be turned away. Earned my stripes! So-called lawyers didn't do much good back then either. Being a US taxpayer I have some cognizance of USA form filling mentality and the clerk mentality whose first interest is to find a technical error so that they can send you away :(

Thanks for all your help. I'm going to sleep on it before putting ink to paper so that it all sinks in should anybody ask "what do you mean here?"

Regards,
William
 
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