I-140 EB2 Denied, insufficient exp.

findgc

Registered Users (C)
I was shocked to know that my I140 (EB2) has been denied due to my petion is inelligible under EB2 classification, since I don't have 5 years experience after the degree.

Lawyer messed up when filing my labor, I had only 3 years of experience after my B.S degree when the labor was filed.

Lawyer says he will send Motion to Reopen and request to consider the case under EB3. Will that help?

UN and other guru's please advice whether Motion to Reopen has any hopes in my case.

Thanks.
 
Thanks UN for the quick reply.

The labor condition says bachelor's degree plus 5 years progressive experience. I had total 11 years of professional experience (Since 1990 after my Diploma in Computer Science Engg) and completed my B.S in 1998. Labor filed under EB2 in Oct 2001.

Lawyer says the past experiences are counted in EB3 case. Is this correct?

Thanks again for your help.
 
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Thanks again UN, I shall try and findout whether the first diploma can be equated to u.s. bachelors degree as you advised.
 
He is filing new I140 and linking old I485 (asking for MTR).

Thanks UN for your help, I will get the education evaluation for my diploma also.
 
A question to you UnitedNation

UnitedNations,
My case is similar like 'findgc'. The LC requirement was Bachelors + 5 years. I had much more but not post baccalaureate. I had one month less before joing the current employer. But my LC was filed after 3 years of joining this employer. So will the experience be counted upto the time i filed LC or before i joined this employer.

I need your insight on this. badly!

Thanks for you response in advance.



unitednations said:
Your lawyer is correct that in eb3 you can count experience gained prior to obtaining bachelors degree; however, in eb2 it is only counted after obtaining bachelors degree.

I think you may still have a little tough time because the requirements were specifically after bachelor's degree. Is there any way that you can get your first diploma equated to u.s. bachelors degree to be on the safe side.

Below is excerpt from immigration-law.com regarding this.

mmigration-law.com

The threshold requirement for academic degree and experience requirement tends to be inconsistent in reality and in the USCIS practice between EB-2 and EB-3. Unlike the EB-2 petition, in the EB-3 requirement, it has been the USCIS HQ position (even though some adjudicators in some Service Centers disagree) that when a bachelor's degree or equivalent degree is required in the labor certification, the degree requirement can be established by a combination of one or more academic "degrees." When it comes to the requirement of experience, it also has been USCIS HQ position that the experience during the period of degree program can be counted to satisfy the experience requirement in the labor certification application if the degree requirement is satisfied. This is drastically contrasted to the experience requirement in the EB-2 requiring a bachelor's degree plus 5 years of progressive experience that only counts "post-graduate" experiences. In the EB-2, the regulation uses a specific language of a bachelor's degree "followed by" the five years of progressive experience. For instance, if the labor certification application required a bachelor's degree or a master's degree, any experience during the degree program has been fairly liberally accepted by the USCIS. However, when an alternative requirement in lieu of a bachelor's degree or a master's degree is required in the labor certification application, the USCIS has interpreted the law more narrowly.
 
unitednations said:
What was the labor cert. requirements? If it was five years then you still will not get approved in eb3 as you don't meet labor requirements. Adjudicators usually will give you a chance to switch to eb3 in RFE. It looks like they didn't in your case.

Two things you need to do:

1) in MTR request filing in eb3
I have seen several AAO decisions and they refuse MTR for changing category. There is no point hoping for it or spending effort in that direction (in my opinion). You should try filing a new 140. Also in 485 denial it is specifically stated that this denial is non-appealable. They will not consider appeal for 485 to be linked to another 140 filing. This is all my opinion only.
 
Thanks UN.

Thanks UN.

In my eta 750a, i dont think there was any related word. But it had BS + 5 years experience in specific environments plus some management experience.

I guess i'll have to wait for my I-140/485.. fingers crossed

PD: 30 Oct 2003
LC approved: 24-SEP-04
I-140/I485 filed on 1-NOV-04 in EB2

unitednations said:
What is the exact wording of eta 750a item #14 and #15.

Also, check this out from immigration-law.com regarding using experience at current employer before priority date.


10/03/2004: EB-2 Labor Certification Application and Dissimilar Occupation Exception Rule to Experience Gained with Employer

However, there are exceptions to the rule that the experience gained with the sponsoring employer is not considered experience. One of these exceptions is the rule of the experience in "dissimilar" occupations. This "dissimilar rule" is comfortably used to prove experience but not to prove education equivalency. For instance, if one gained with the sponsoring employer in an occupation which is related to the occupation but under the DOT it is a completely different occupation, such prior experience can be taken as a proof of experience for the purpose of proving the "experience" which is required in the labor certification application. Another example is a promotion to a manager position, again which is completely a different classification in the DOT. From the standpoint of the labor certification application, it is thus extremely important that employer states in the application that the employer will accept "such" related occupation. The alternative experience in this context should inherently be related to the job offered but "dissimilar" occupation. Accordingly, unless the labor certification application requires a related occupation experience, the exception rule of dissimilar occupation will fail to establish the qualification requirement for the labor certification application through the experience gained with the sponsoring employer. Besides under the dissimilar experience rule, the only experience gained with the sponsoring employer that can be used in the previous experience "in dissimilar occupation." Thus if the labor certification application required three years of experience and the alien gained two years of experience with the prior employers or with the current sponsoring employer in "dissimilar occupation" and gained additional one year of experience with the occupational classification with the sponsoring employer which is the subject occupation of the labor certification application, the alien is considered to have failed to prove the three-year work experience since part of the experience gained with the sponsoring employer is the same occupation which is the subject of the labor certification application and does not fall under the "dissimilar" occupation exception rule. This point was confirmed by one of the recent labor certification application case which was appealed to the BALCA, the appeal agency of the labor certification application, in September 2004. Additionally, there is another issue which has yet to be revolved. It is whether or not the experience in dissimilar occupation can be used to establish the five year progressive years of experience in the specialty which is the regulatory language, regardless of the same employer or different employer. If the dissimilar occupation is established by years of work experience in the same occupation prior to promotion to a "managerial" position (vertical change of occupations) which is the subject job for the labor certification application, arguably the employer may be able to use the dissimilar rule. The problem involves a situation which involves horizontal change of occupations at the same level in the responsibility which are considered "related" but "dissimilar." For instance, the change from process engineer or industrial engineer to manufacturing engineer. Conceptually, the case will face a problem to use the dissimilar rule in this context. The issue has yet to be resolved.
 
For UN

UN,
I appreciate your thoughtfullness.

There is a gap between when i finished my course requirement and when the date of receiving bachelors degree.

I completed that requirement in Nov 1994 and i joined the employer in 6 Nov 1999. ( There is no record for the exact date in November when i completed the requirement)

Now would whould you think that Nov 1994 to 6-Nov-1999 will be counted as 5 years. Its still a question of few days?

I asked my attorney and he had replied that will be ok. But i dont trust him.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance.


unitednations said:
Just something else to think about.

I finished my course requirements for my university degree in August 1990. However, my graduation date was November 1990 (when I received the diploma). There is obviously a time lag between when one finishes the course requirements and receives the diploma.

I don't know if this applies to you but between the stub period of when you took your last course and when you got the diploma was there any work experience between those dates. If there was; would it be in addition to the four years plus eleven months you already had. This may be an area of attack for you.
 
Pretty similar situation

I am in a similar situation too.
The LC states that the candidate should have a BS + 2 years experience or a MS in lieu of experience.

Well I had 1 year 11 months and 1 week of experience before I joined the company. I am missing three weeks.

I was also enrolled in a Masters program but did not get the degree certificate as all my tranferrable credits were not counted. (I was 3 credits short of getting the degree and never bothered to complete it.)

My lawyer asked me to get a letter of exerience from when I was a TA at university to account for the missing 3 weeks of experience.

Would I have a problem????
 
unitednations

Hi Unitednations ,

could you please answer my question, as I have seen findgc is denied yesterday and I am 1 day after his case. in my labour , requirement was BS+5 and I have exact experience BS+5 , before joining this employer and they were very specific to BS+5 so as per your experiencer, do you think, they can also send RFE or denied this type of case.

Thanks
 
unitednations

thanks for your prompt reply, yes, I have exact 5 year of experience before joining the current employer & priority date but the only thing, which is bugging me ,I am sending my experience letter detail like.

1-Jan-96 to Sep-30-96 Left job but work till Oct 15 and in experience letter till Jan-01-96 till Sep-30-96.
2. 15-Oct-96 till -March-200
3. March-2000 till Dec-2000 and
I join current employer on Jan-2001.

If you see, on Job second , I don't have 15 days on doc that I can get from my colleague but problem is, will they denied on this small difference.


Thanks
 
unitednations

Thanks for the information that I will get it because after findgc case, I checked my case throughly and find this small difference of 15 days on papers . As you are right, if they want to approve any case then they will check minutely.


Thanks
 
Gurus,

As you know my EB2 140 has been denied, and lawyer filed a new I140 in EB3 category and requesting a Motion to Reopen on my old 485(linking both of them), what will be my priority dates for my new 140 and 485 and how long it takes for MTR (485) to get an response.

Thanks,
findgc.
 
Unitednations,

My I -140 got denied due to my LC was i Eb3 and I-140 in Eb2. I have BS+5 years of experience before I-140 was filed.

Do you think there is a difference in MTR with change for EB3 category? or completely re-filiing I-140+ I-485 in EB3?

In MTR will I loose my original filing dates for I140 & I485?

In case MTR is rejected can I still re-file the case after that? What will be the approximate time to get results?

Thanks alot!
 
Unitednations
Thanks for quick reply.

"In RFE, did they give you a chance to change to eb3?" , My lawyer just told me on the phone that my case has been denied. Do I have hope that it could be RFE where I can check for what you have mentioned.

My lawyer told me over the phone its only about Eb2 & eb3 mismatch.I will have a talk with him in the noon to understand the details.

I get your suggetion as I can file with MTR for EB3 change for around 45 days(hopefuly) else I can re-file then completely as a new application.

Yes, at least my LC date is 2001 and hopeful EB3 retrogession shouldn't affect my refiled case.


Is there any risk factor in MTR?To me appears little faster than completey refiling.

Thanks
 
Case refiled in EB3 and denied also, UN please advice

UN,

Another sad development, my initial 140 was filed under EB2 and got denied and the lawyer immediately filed a new 140 under EB3 categroy in Nov 04 that got denied also. Now he sent the appeal to CSC&AAU (quoting AILA discussion and all).

The reson for EB3 denial was I had only 3 years of experience after my bachelors, my labor requires Bachelors plus five years of progressive experience. Actually I had 10 years of work experience after my 3 years Diploma.

It isn't the case in EB3 past experience are counted, what are my chances of appeal getting sustained.

My lawyer also suggested to file a backup labor for 7th year extension, but he is giving positive assurance this will be approved at CSC/AAU.

Please advise what are my other options.


Thanks,
findgc
 
Thanks UN for the reply.

I finsihed my Diploma in 90 and finished my Bachelors in 98 and my labor was filed in 10/2001. I had 10 years of exp. since my diploma, but had only 3 years after my bachelors.

No, they are not picking on 4 year degree, all they say was acquired experience after bachelors is only 3 years but the labor requires 5 years and hence the application is denied.

They didn't consider my previous experiences even though the I140 is for EB3 category.

The brief on appeal 290B quoted the ALIA discussion with CSC on May 28, 2003, in that CSC confirmed on case to case basis EB3 is acceptable with past experience included.

What are my chances, please post your feedback.

Thanks,
findgc.
 
experience break - will it be a problem

All,

I have a query. My gc will be filed in CA. I have 7+ years successive experience after my BS degree. However there is a gap of 3 months and 2 months between 2 jobs after that. Will it be a problem? Labor got cleared for EB2

Thanks for your help
 
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